New Speakers Advice (1 Viewer)

[BraveHeart123]

Forgot to mention one thing.....when I hooked up the speakers to AVR, I forgot to set the impedence to 8 ohms on avr, and ran them on 6 ohms instead for a couple of hours. DIdn't crank them up. Later on I realized that these were 8 ohms speakers, so I changed the impedence on avr to 8 ohms. Could this have casued some fault in the speakers?? Anyway, I have dropped an email to Tierry Budge.... thanx for help

 

[Robert_J]

The 6/8 ohm setting didn't hurt your speakers. It's difficult to diagnose an audio issue over the internet. Take the speakers back to the seller and test them there. Test each one on your own system. Make sure you have a quality CD recording (not an MP3) and use the stereo setting. You should hear the highs. It won't be a sizzle sound like you have been accustomed to with a V setting on an EQ but the highs will be there. I don't have a clue who that Budge guy is. I've been reading speaker design books since the mid 1980's and this is the first time I've seen his name. Joe D'Appolito - famous. Paul Klipsch - famous. Dan Wiggins - famous in some circles. Tierry Budge - ???????? Googled him. The first (and only) article mentioned woofer speed and to me that is just snake oil to me. Dan Wiggins http://www.acousticdev.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=55 and Dr. David Hyre http://dyneanalytics.com/about.htm wrote about this years ago - http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf

 

[gene c]

It certainly is possible for new speakers (or anything else) to be faulty from new. Maybe the tweeters became disconnected (?). I agree with checking with the seller to find an answer. You could also find a similar pair in a retail store give them a listen there. If you haven't double-checked the YAPO settings and other things like treble controls give them a look. Maybe some upper-range setting has been turned all the way down. I've never heard a pair of Klipsch speakers that didn't bounce the sound off the walls. Something has to be wrong.

 

[BraveHeart123]

I guess you are right about Tierry budge, coz the mail bounced back.....Anyway, do you think bi-amping the speakers might solve my problem? Coz RF-62 II have the option of bi-amping and so does my avr. I can use Front Presence speakers connection on the back of avr to bi-amp the speakers.

 

[Robert_J]

Bi-amping will just make them louder. It won't change the sound.

 

[BraveHeart123]

Then I guess I have no option but to wait for the break in period to lapse. Anyway, it's strange it's such a huge forum and nobody could resolve my problem. Thanx anyway for your replies

 

[Jason Charlton]

I'll chime in just to reiterate what Robert_J and Gene suggested.


Faisal - if there is a serious problem with the speakers, don't WAIT for the problem to magically fix itself. Contact the seller immediately and see what your alternatives are. You've only had them for a few days, you should still be in the window to return the speakers and/or exchange them for another pair.


Don't risk getting stuck with faulty speakers because you decided to wait a while longer. Yes, there are those that believe "breaking in" speakers will improve their sound. I haven't really noticed much change to my speakers, but that may just be me. But even so, "breaking in" speakers shouldn't mean turning crappy sound into gold! There must be something more involved here.


I understand that you had them shipped, and returning them may be a bit more involved (and there may be some expense involved) but better to spend a little money now to get the problem fixed, than to wind up with two expensive broken speakers.

 

[BraveHeart123]

Coz of experts on this forum like Gene, Wayne, Robert, and so many others, I've also learned a couple of things about HT sound. I know there is no problem in the hook up or settings on AVR. So i guess I try this option also and return them for a replacement or upgrade to RF-82 II. But before resorting to this option, I have a local dealer here in Islamabad who carries RF-62. They are not Mark 2, but I think if I audition them, they should sound similar to RF-62 II. That will give an idea to decide whether my speakers are faulty or they actually sound that way. What do you think??

 

[Robert_J]

Take your speakers or a pair of speakers to the dealer. They should sound similar. If he is a quality Klipsch dealer, he should be happy to help you out.

 

[BraveHeart123]

I managed to bring RF-62 home from a local store and tested it along side RF-62 II. Both sounded almost exactly the same, which was aweful. So the experiment failed. I thot may be RF-62 II (125 Watts) were being over-powered by my receiver yamaha rxv-3900 (150 wpc) for which I paid US$ 1200 brand new. So, I wasn't accepting that my monster receiver had something to do with crappy response of RF-62 II. I instead returned them and got the higher end RF-82 II (150 Watts) brand new. The dealer was kind enough to take em back send 82s. But they also sound exactly the same way. After checking, re-checking, double-tripple checking and confirming all the hookups and settings are dead on, that's what I have concluded after wasting close to US$ 2400 on Klipsch Reference Series speakers (RF-82 II, RS-52 II, RC-62 II) though RC-62 II (Thinking of cancelling the order) is still on its way; 1. Either Klipsch RF-82 II are extremely over-rated OR there is a terrible mismatch between Klipsch Speakers and Yamaha RX-V3900. 2. This particular receiver is rated at 140 wpc, whereas it pumps out between 60 to 80 watts all channels driven. That means Yamaha, of which I was the biggest fan, is grossly misleading customers. But having said, experimented, and painfully experienced all that, Klipsch speakers are claimed to be very efficient. That claim is grossly misleading as well coz even 60 wpc should be enough to drive them to their potential, but they refuse to sound as claimed. It's like a huge ball of muddy, mushy, muffled, strangulated, mixed up response (sort of like a bowl of swirled up noodles), with zero imaging and music detail. I had to literally switch on the processor in my head to tell which sound came out of what. These speakers are terrible as of now. I am hugely disappointed with the Yammy / Klipsch combo. Sorry but that's more than my 2 cents down the drain for no gain but tonnes of pain. I'm left with one last shot i.e. to try running em off external amp. I can get some used 2 channel amps e.g. Onkyo M-505 & Adcom 555 MKII. Which one do u think will be better mated with RF-82 II???

 

[Jason Charlton]

Looking back briefly at your first post, I might suggest there's another option. You don't like the sound of Klipsch speakers. Klipsch speakers have a rather unique sound to them - some folks like them, others do not.


When folks include Klipsch in their list of potential speaker brands, we almost always implore them to audition the speakers first, to establish if the sound is appealing to them. I know that in your case, you said auditioning them was not feasible, but you should realize that this is a distinct possibility.


Wattage "mismatch" and/or the receiver "coloring" the sound to the point where, as you describe it, the speakers sound awful seems a much less likely scenario, IMO.

 

[BraveHeart123]

If Klipsch describes their product line to be bright and crystal clear like so many people here are talking about, then that is what I love .... clarity, seperation, distinct sound. As regards the lower end, I already have a SUB-12 to supplement/complement at 90 hz and below. So, I knew what Klipsch was supposed to offer, but it is all mixed up. I think it is an utter AVR/speaker mismatch. And this also happened due to misinformation flying over the internet about Yamaha RX-V3900. The power rating is extremely wrong. If at all I were to use an external amp, there was no need of me wasting US$ 1200 on the avr. I could've used my old avr RX-V363 and added an external amp using pre outs on it. Like I wrote before, this leaves me no other option but to try adding external amp either Onkyo M-505 or Adcom 555 MKII. Hopefully this would conclude my nightmare. Nothing to offend anyone around, but this is my experience with Klipsch/Yammy combo and it turned out to be deplorably miserable. I don't want any other folks here to suffer and be carfeul about Yamaha receivers coz they are horribly deceptive on their power output. It's like paying for ferrari and finding and ford taurus engine inside. Dont know if something wrong with Klipsch or Yammy, but I guess yammy is the culprit more in this than klipsch.

 

[gene c]

Home Theater Magazine's bench test showed 70 wpc X 5 @ .1% thd. Sound & Vision tested 100 wpc x 5. Even though it falls short of the stated specs (most receivers do, and usually by a larger amount than that.) that should still be more than enough to power Klipsch speakers to ear bleeding levels. Yamaha is the only consumer level receiver that I haven't owned yet but those who have them seem satisfied. I've never owned Klipsch speakers either. The 3900 should be worlds better than the 363. Sorry it hasn't worked out for you. I'm not an amp guy but between Onkyo and Adcom I'd take the Adcom based soley on reputation.

 

[BraveHeart123]

I wana try one last thing before I buy outboard amp. Need your input on that. I'm using a high-grade 12 gauge cable for speaker connection, which is pretty thick in dia. The cable seems high quality and made in switzerland. But over the course of 2 years, the bare ends of the wire have become rusty. Could this be the problem not realying clean signal to the speakers?? Also, shall I change the cable to the one with lower gauge 12?? Just an inexpensive alternative before pulling the trigger on external amp!!!

 

[gene c]

Rusty speaker wire ends? Never heard that before. Especially after two years. I'm using good quality 14 gauge that I bought from the automotive dept at Walmart 10-12 years ago. Royal brand I think. Still good as new. Anyway, any chance you can snip the rust off the ends and re-splice it? If not then give some new wire a try. 12, 14, 16...it really won't matter that much. Wire is wire. Some people use lamp cord from Home Depot.

 

[BraveHeart123]

Not exactly rusty, but oxidized. The weather here becomes very humid from june til august. Does oxidation on bare cable ends impede clean signal feed from avr to speaker?? I can just snip off the oxidized ends, remove an inch of the outer sheath, and use fresh ends.

 

[gene c]

I've never dealt with oxidized wire but it's possible it could be at least a part of the problem. Fresh ends will tell you if it was. Kind of a long shot but you never know...

 

[BraveHeart123]

I've recalibrated my system, switched off all PEQ on all channels. I watch movies using Straight setting on the avr, so that yammy has no influence whatsoever on the input signal and outputs purest feed to all the speakers without colouring. Did I notice improvement? ...... YES. Channel seperation and subtle effects are pronounced. Does yammy have enough power to drive RF-82 II in 5.1 setup? ..... Big NOOOOO. I say that coz the response is still anaemic and I need to dial in volume to the same level (-10db i.e. 70 db). I would normally listen at -15db or -20db on my old crappy yamaha speakers and I have to dial in the same volume level with Klipsch. So, it clearly shows either the speakers are not efficient at all OR I bet RX-V3900 does not have enough juice to drive them. I guess 60-80 watts average output on avr is still over-stated and actually it's below that even. So, one phrase...... RX-V3900 is hugely over praised and priced coz the cost to benefit ratio doesn't justify the price. (Just my opinion) I think I will need to add outboard amp to get full performance from RF-82 II. I sure will wait for the speakers to break in.

 

[gene c]

Well, I'm certainly not going to doubt your evaluation. You have the receiver and speakers and I don't. But I hoe you can understand how confusing this is to me. The 3900 should be capable of driving Klipsch speakers without a problem regardless of it's actual rated power output. Your results are very surprising. In any event, I look forward to your comments after you've added that outboard amp. At this point I hope the 3900 was indeed the problem (even if an expensive one ) and you can finally enjoy your system the way you felt you should have all along. I hope there isn't some other issue that you/we haven't thought of or stumbled accross yet, although I can't imagine what that would be. Good luck from here on out and I'm sorry I wasn't more help for you.

 

[BraveHeart123]

I appreciate your help. thanx loads. Ive tossed up a new thread in Receivers/Seperates/Amps section with the title "Technics SE-9021 Stereo Power Amp". I need some comments on this amp coz it's readily avaiable to me. I've been owning the whole Technics seperates rig since mid 80's and it's collecting dust in the store for over 10 years now. Before I pull the trigger on a new external amp, I wana try this amp to see if it solves my problem. Coz if it does, it will save me a lot of money.