Complaint to Studios: INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL SOUND MIX! (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

I think that Lady And The Tramp DVD is like that... basically a L-C-R "3.0" stereo mix with little or no surround information. They may have downmixed the greater number of front channels into that configuration using phantom-placement between each front main speaker. The result sounds VERY good and very much like they accurately represented the source. The same is true for the original mix on the Sleeping Beauty DVD.

 

[DavidS]

Then let's hope they include that mix on the Blu-Ray!

 

[ZackR]

I could not agree more. This is/was a pet peeve of mine on standard DBDs are well.

The original sound mix should ALWAYS be an option.

ALWAYS.

 

[Stephen PI]

I wonder how many people are willing to go the extra step of installing left center and right center front speakers so we can experience pure six-track with the handful of films that are discrete six-track or more. "How the West Was Won", "Ben-Hur", "King of Kings", "Mutiny on the Bounty", "Brothers Grimm", "Oklahoma!", "South Pacific" are a few examples.
I wonder if Warner and Fox would be willing at some point provide these mixes?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

it may not be a discrete representation of the original stems, but even a front L/C/R configuration can represent the original "mix" by using phantom-center between the L-C and C-R speakers.

 

[PaulDA]

Zardoz is the only title I've seen with a 3.0 audio track. I believe it is intended to do as you describe.

 

[MatthewA]

Bye Bye Birdie has a 3.0 track in addition to the 5.1 and 2.0 tracks.

 

[GregK]

IT CAME FROM OUTER SPACE also has a discrete 3.0 track, which is the original mix.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I've been wondering about this one. This is one of my favorite 50s sci-fi films. Did Universal do a mag stripe on this film to get the stereo track? I know that wasn't typically done to flat films. However they did it, the mix and particularly the score sounds great.

I've also wondered because this film becaues it was advertised as being widescreen, I have to assume it was 1.85:1, its clearly not anamorphic. The DVD is 1.33 and it doesn't look like there is tons of extra head room and the sides don't appear to be cut off. I actually saw this in 3D in a theater when I was a kid in the late 70s. I seem to remember it being 1.33 at the time. I'd love to see a 3D HD release of this.

Doug

 

[DavidS]

My complaint is that, even when double-dipping, these tracks suddenly go missing when they might have been present on the previous release.

 

[GregK]

It Came From Outer Space was three track mag, but I'm not sure if it was interlock or stripe. It is one of the very few 3-D films from the 1950's to have it's original stereo mix (L/C/R) survive. Kiss Me Kate's made it, but the rest are lost. Because of Warner Brother's unique Warnerphonic system, the original surround tracks for House of Wax and Charge at Feather River have likely survived, but the mag L/C/R front channels are gone. I'm sure Bob Furmanek would certainly know more details on this matter.

As for the aspect ratio of ICFOS, it was released in theaters just as widescreen was becoming the rage, so Universal decided to promote it as a widescreen feature. So it is very important to note while ICFOS was promoted and sometimes shown (cropped) in widescreen, it was certainly composed for 1.33.

Sensio plans on releasing ICFOS in 3-D on DVD using their Sensio 3-D video encoding system sometime this year. That is ..if everything works out.


Somewhat back to the thread subject- I had heard reports that the *original* surround track for Forbidden Planet was lost years ago. For the recent WB release, did they discover the original long lost surround track, or is it derived from the original front channels? Has anyone in the know (Stephen PI perhaps?) heard any specifics?

 

[Douglas Monce]

Interesting info on the sound for It Came From Outer Space. I suspected it was shot as 1.33, the framing just didn't look like it was shot with widescreen cropping in mind.

I'm not familiar with Sensio, what do they do and do they have some licensing agreement with Universal? I'd defiantly be buying a 3D ICFOS!

Doug

 

[GregK]

Yes. Sensio is planning on releasing five Universal titles in their Sensio 3-D format which include- Jaws 3-D, Taza Son of Cochise, Creature from the Black Lagoon, It Came From Outer Space, and Revenge of the Creature. I said previously "if everything works out", as Sensio had originally planned on releasing these starting in the fall of 2006, but they have been repeatedly pushed back. Jaws 3-D just became available to purchase, and am now waiting for it to show up. So I'm now a 'tad' more optimistic.

Given this well off the original thread subject, please feel free to PM me, and I can provide more detailed information on the Sensio system, and perhaps a jpeg or two of the encoding used. Sensio is planning a 3D HD encoding version as well, but final details have not been released.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Sigh... I wish the BDA would get their act together on a 3-D encoding spec for disc software (using the secondary video channel running in full 1080p24). I want full-quality HD 3-D in my living room!!!

 

[DavidS]

That would be so great... I'd love to see an HD (or better) 3D system that doesn't require the viewer to wear glasses.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Just one more post before we get back on-topic...

3-D using "dual video streams" would be the ultimate solution for videophile HD for several reasons...

1. All "3-D" Blu-ray Discs would play on regular BD players in regular 2-D mode no problem... it's a one-size-fits-all disc (unlike today where 3-D encoded discs look crappy played in 2-D).

2. Once you have the spec written, then anyone interested in 3-D playback can get a 3-D equipped player (3-D performance could just be an optional feature). A 3-D enabled BD player could do any or more of the following with the 3-D content:

* play back in regular 2-D mode
* Mix the two 1080p24 streams together alternating frames in 1080p48, 1080p60, 1080p72, or 1080p120 for use with LCD shutter-glasses. Would work great with the new 120 Hz LCD TVs.
* high-end consumers could feed each 1080p24 signal out via two HDMI outputs... each feeding a separate projector using poloarized filters just the way that IMAX movies and professional 3-D films are shown today in theaters.
* whatever new way of rendering the 3-D that comes out. Once you have the Left/Right eye on the same disc, you can do whatever you need to with them on any future display with a simple firmware upgrade (or that future 3-D display could have dual HDMI inputs for 3-D input).

All that from the same disc that will play just like normal in all 2-D players. It could be an AWESOME thing if the BDA would move on this. (p.s. this is all possible bcs BD allows the second video stream to be in full 1080p24. HD DVD couldn't deliver 3-D content this way bcs it's secondary video stream is limited to SD resolution).

 

[Jesse Skeen]

I think the Japanese VHD format worked so that 3-D discs could be played in 2-D, and not all players supported it. A few years ago someone sent me a tape with parts of some 3-D discs on it, but there was no sound because it wasn't from a 3-D equipped player.

Maybe someone should start a new thread about Sensio? I've heard about it for a while but don't know how it works. I have most of the field-sequential DVD titles, but those are hard to enjoy with the flickering and reduced picture resolution.

To get back on topic, it goes without saying that I ALWAYS want the original sound mix. That means matrix surround if that's how it was released, no new 5.1 mix. If it was mono I want to hear it that way, and no more 2-channel "big fat mono" tracks either!

 

[DavidS]

I have no problem with them making a new mix, so long as the original is also included.

 

[GregK]

Let us hope when BEN HUR is released on Blu-Ray, perhaps Warners will finally restore the original 4.0 or 6.0 mix (it had both, depending on if it was 35mm or 70mm) that had won an Oscar for Sound. Give us the award winning mix that was heard in 1959!

If they want to they want to keep their new 5.1 re-mix made by 'Engineer-X' with souped up bass & surrounds, they could at least offer the original mix as an alternate option.

 

[Jari K]

I fully agree.