What WB Shows on WB Archives? (1 Viewer)

[Randy Korstick]

But that is just it, we do not agree about the price structure's being identical between MOD program's and typical pressed disks. Especially when considering street price. Again, how can you argue with WB's own "Maverick" (the complete first season) being available for pre-order at $30, when most MODs by WBA average around $60 to $80 a season when released. Yes, some releases by other studio's can be closer in line to WBA, and Yes there may be quality differences that you aren't willing to pay for, but overall the pricing of "pressed" disks is undeniably cheaper then MOD titles across the board (not just WBA).

I know we do not agree and will most likely never see eye to eye on this. I shop Amazon, DVDEmpire and DDD and do not see 50% off expect for occasional big sales as you guys are stating so maybe you are seeing them somewhere else. Normally they are 25-35% off which is comparable to WA so we do not agree, which is why I said to agree to disagree but Jeff apparently does not think this is acceptible to do and just insist this is just a MOD fanboy issue so we should continue on forever.

 

[Will Green]

I'm late to this discussion, but, I wholeheartedly agree that Brad has made some excellent points. While I'm glad that WB have extended their BOD program to older TV shows, most of what they've released so far is aggressively mediocre and/or kiddie fare (Tarzan, Girl From UNCLE, Man From Atlantis). The FBI is the only show so far that I've been willing to buy at the higher prices that these sets command. I'm happy that Maverick will be released in a more affordable format, and I hope that sales will warrant further pressed disc releases. I also agree with Chris that a blanket dismissal of the A/V quality of Timeless' products is just plain wrong. I own many of these releases and am happy to have them, though I do agree RE: several M Squads looking pretty poor (don't have the Laramie releases, so I can't comment). Further, claiming that all of CBS's Have Gun, Will Travel releases are of poor quality is equally wrong. Seasons 1, 2, and especially 4&5 look fine. Season 3 is inconsistent but hardly PD. I can't develop too much enthusiasm about the CBS BOD comment, if only because I don't see it changing the prospects for the dozen or so shows that I'd truly love to see them release. Sure, IF CBS decides to go the BOD route, it's likely the only way that we'll ever see the later seasons of Gunsmoke and Bonanza. However, even with a BOD program, I'll likely be dead before I see The Defenders or Ben Casey, just to name a couple, on DVD. FWIW, in case WB is paying attention, I'd buy: Sam Benedict Mr. Novak The Asphalt Jungle The Eleventh Hour The Lieutenant Nichols Banyon The New Dick Van Dyke Show (BTW, this isn't a true great like his first show, but it's pretty damn funny. It hardly ever gets mentioned and I wonder why.) More FBI most of these I don't think I'll see.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Dear God, I know so many folks who would LOVE to pick up 77 SUNSET STRIP and SURFSIDE 6. They were wonderful dramas with a bit of comedy thrown in, on par with PETER GUNN. The late 50's-early 60's detective shows had a flair and these two are certainly a couple of the best. Come on WB, give them to us!

 

[Regulus]

ANY QUESTIONS?!!!

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Korstick /t/295064/what-wb-shows-on-wb-archives/60#post_3906220

Actually, in my case, I'm not disappointed at all (if that's was how it came off). I was just noting there are visual differences between the referenced releases. I'm just appreciative of the content being available and understand the difficulties in getting some of the releases out at all. For example, I own many Timeless releases and just watched five episodes of M-Squad on the 92" screen the other night. No problems and enjoyed the opportunity to be able to watch this great show. What i have difficulty with on the big screen isn't washed out prints like M-Squad and Texan where there is still a sense of detail, but highly overly compressed video where someone tries to fit eight hours of content on a four hour disk, and everything has a "blocky" feel to it.[/quote]
I hear you on the "blocky" point, Brad. I think that's my only real problem with magnified picture quality at times too. And as you said, that's generally a compression issue. While I can't rave about the quality of M-Squad, I generally think Chris is right in that Timeless does a pretty good job considering what they have to work with. They get a big thumbs up from me.



Gary "just my two cents" O.

 

[Neil Brock]

All of this started when they dropped the prices on VCRs below $1000 and blank tapes below $20. Never heard any of this whinging before that! That must be how people in the early 50s felt when the prices on television sets came down. There went all of the quality live anthology series and in came the mass appeal shows.

 

[Randy Korstick]

     Quote: Your sarcasm is duly noted.    All I'd point out is that Jeff never made his post or his points personal by calling out anyone by name.  If we can't have discussion of differing opinions without making it personal then that's a problem.  On top of that, Jeff is one of the nicest and most cordial guys at HTF and definitely didn't deserve that type of reply, imho. Its obvious who he was talking to we are both more intelligent then that. I'll take your word for on it on the nicest and cordial although you sure couldn't tell by the unjustified attack and assumptions. Lets just say I find your online prices quoted above not what I normally see as everyday prices and I look almost everyday but I wish they were true. 30-35% yes, 40% sometimes-50% rare unless its an abandoned title. Titles I shop for Gunsmoke, Bonanza and a few others just to see if there is a sale are usually $25.00-$28.00 a piece which is only a few dollars less then I pay for WA TV titles.Amazon pre-orders are usually 30% off and if we are using pre-orders Timeless Media releases are only 10% off on Amazon pre-orders and Timeless has some high list prices Barnes and Nobles was a terrible experience for me. I would not reccomend them to anyone. I did get the price you mentioned from them on Tales of Wells Fargo but it took one month and multiple e-mails to them just for them to admit the tracking# they supplied was not valid and that they never actually shipped the item and then they told me it was out of stock for another month so it took 2 and 1/2 months to get an item that was released the week I ordered it. So never again from them. I've never had that problem with any other online vendor that discount is not worth the trouble imho. I'm not a major bargain hunter and I paid less for Cheynne Season 2 and Seaon 3 then you mention. They frequently have sets on sale for 20% off and you can apply a coupon on top of that. It sounds as though you don't order any WA TV titles so not sure how you can assume everything is factual. Its a difference of opinion. $39.99 is $39.99 to me. Paramount and Warner Archive sets those pricing lines. Paramount does not control online prices anymore then either of them control prices on e-bay. So they have the same pricing scheme, so why bash one and not the other when they ask the same price. Where you buy and what discount you get is where we differ in opionions so add more if you want but I'm leaving it at that. If I offended anyone in any of my post please accept my apologies that was not the intent. It just gets tiresome to see the same bashing ad nauseum in every thread about WA titles that adds nothing to the discussion of the title.

 

[Professor Echo]

Randy, perhaps you would get less flack regarding price comparisons if you always remembered to add the initials MSRP for pressed discs vs. MOD prices. That is a somewhat fairer comparison, but as others have continually pointed out, most pressed discs can be had for less than the MSRP, so your competitive pricing structures don't hold water unless you are narrowing your focus down to MSRP vs. MOD's flat rate price.


I also don't think the sarcasm toward Jeff was warranted, but I understand your frustration. My biggest contention with the Archive is the pricing and the fact that I know through inside sources that Warners is making a mint from this program with very little expenditure on their end. Okay,while some cry greed, another can simply say that's capitalism and if people want to support and/or reward such corporate practices, fine. But, understandably, it becomes a little disingenuous after awhile to consistently see posters try to justify this new paradigm of releasing DVDs without acknowledging that it compares little with the previous pattern of releasing pressed discs. The comparisons are ultimately futile as the structure for each is so different.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Randy, perhaps you would get less flack regarding price comparisons if you always remembered to add the initials MSRP for pressed discs vs. MOD prices. That is a somewhat fairer comparison, but as others have continually pointed out, most pressed discs can be had for less than the MSRP, so your competitive pricing structures don't hold water unless you are narrowing your focus down to MSRP vs. MOD's flat rate price.


I also don't think the sarcasm toward Jeff was warranted, but I understand your frustration. My biggest contention with the Archive is the pricing and the fact that I know through inside sources that Warners is making a mint from this program with very little expenditure on their end. Okay,while some cry greed, another can simply say that's capitalism and if people want to support and/or reward such corporate practices, fine. But, understandably, it becomes a little disingenuous after awhile to consistently see posters try to justify this new paradigm of releasing DVDs without acknowledging that it compares little with the previous pattern of releasing pressed discs. The comparisons are ultimately futile as the structure for each is so different.

Agreed on all points, Glen. I'd also note that nothing was said about the in-company comparison between Cheyenne and Maverick. If that doesn't demonstrate what some of us are trying to point out, then I doubt anything will.



Gary "take care, everyone" O.

 

[Jack P]

******It just gets tiresome to see the same bashing ad nauseum in every thread about WA titles that adds nothing to the discussion of the title.****** I have to agree with this to the extent that it seems to me that if Warner isn't getting hit on the pricing thing, what I read more often are complaints regarding which titles they're choosing to release. And I guess having had to endure more "Shout is perfect!" threads and posts than I care to remember over the years that downplayed or marginalized the issues they fell on their faces on, it probably explains why I feel a need to stick up for a program that finally brought to DVD some titles that were more than conspicuous by their absence on DVD, especially "The FBI" which was the longest running 1960s show not to be on DVD. Yet more often it's "Why don't they release the late 50s detective shows?" or something similar. Warner deserves praise for the gaps they're filling in the classic TV on DVD landscape, and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't wily-nily buy every Archive title the instant it gets released because even I must live on a budget, but each new release demonstrates long-term commitment, and if they're showing that, then more power to them and keep them coming.

 

[smithb]

Warner deserves praise for the gaps they're filling in the classic TV on DVD landscape, and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't wily-nily buy every Archive title the instant it gets released because even I must live on a budget, but each new release demonstrates long-term commitment, and if they're showing that, then more power to them and keep them coming.

Jack, I agree with what you stated above completely. The truth is no one has a perfect record. There are many complaints within these forums about all the studio's and 3rd parties distributing TV series on DVD (and that includes Shout! and Timeless). As you also stated the main complaints with WBA are price and slowness in getting releases out. The pricing issue isn't a WBA only complaint, but a MOD in general compliant. The slowness compliant is in some sense also a compliment because it shows that people see that WBA has a catalog worth releasing. I'm hoping what was reported before about working through dual layer issues is true since it may mean more releases sooner. I'm hoping the Tarzan remastering is also something we will see more of in the future. So in the end, we may find pricing is the only complaint (jury in out on DVD-R's for now). I'm fine with that since it still opens the door to some titles I might decide to purchase. Like i said no one is perfect in this field. What is steering this thread away from its intended purpose, IMO, is the attempt to make WBA out to not having any faults. Again, IMO, the best response about WBA is to just present the positives you stated, but with the caveat of "okay so their prices are a little higher, but look what we are getting another option for titles", and just leave it at that. Just my opinion.

 

[BobO'Link]

Interesting comments from everyone. I'm not a fan of the MOD programs but *will* pick up highly desired titles if that's the only way to own one. Price is the biggest factor - I've *always* felt the MOD titles are overpriced by at least double what they *should* "retail" for. That's why I'll only purchase during one of the really good sales. But all of that is fairly irrelevant to this overall discussion as it the majority here seems to feel similarly. It's one thing to release a niche TV series on MOD. I fully understand the reasoning there and grudgingly support that decision *if* it gets a true niche title into the hands of the few who truly wish to own a copy. But that is for true *niche* titles. There are several TV titles offered via MOD that just don't seem like they would be niche or a "low seller" on pressed disk. What is beginning to concern me about the MOD program is Warner's propensity to drop current *pressed* titles and move them to the MOD program often at 2-4 times the cost of the former pressed version. While I've not yet seen this occur with TV titles they've done this with quite a few movies. We've already seen a few TV series get *continued* in this fashion and I feel it's only a matter of time before we see a currently pressed TV season get cancelled and moved to MOD. I get the feeling someone is saying "Why do a pressed run when we can just MOD the title with far less overhead".

 

[Neil Brock]

You guys realize that BOD titles sell far fewer copies than broad releases do, right? And you also know that the costs involved in remastering and clearances are exactly the same as for a general release. So, do the math. If a general release of a marginally marketable title might sell 5 or 10 thousand copies and a BOD release sells about a quarter of that if they're lucky, where do you think they are supposed to make up the costs if not from charging more? The only difference in Warner's costs are that they aren't pressing 20,000 discs at a time and hoping they sell but rather doing them to order. Other than that, their outlay to bring the product to the marketplace is exactly the same.

 

[FanCollector]

Are the clearances exactly the same? I was hoping that they would sometimes be reduced because of the smaller potential sales, like they used to be for the Columbia House direct mail stuff, for example. No price break or percentage deal for the limited sales of MOD? That is disappointing, as I had hoped to see some shows with high music clearance costs have a better shot.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Brock

You guys realize that BOD titles sell far fewer copies than broad releases do, right? And you also know that the costs involved in remastering and clearances are exactly the same as for a general release.

That's true in some cases, but I don't believe it's true in every case. For instance, as best I can tell they haven't come close to remastering every one of their vintage releases. They do it for some, but not for all. And the same would have to be true for music clearance issues. Not every vintage TV release is going to need massive clearance fees. So while your point holds true for some, it doesn't hold true for all the WBA releases. With some of them, they aren't having to pay much of anything. But they still don't mind charging an arm and a leg for them - in comparison to their pressed disc counterparts.


Gary "again, just my two cents" O.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithb

I'm hoping the Tarzan remastering is also something we will see more of in the future. So in the end, we may find pricing is the only complaint (jury in out on DVD-R's for now). I'm fine with that since it still opens the door to some titles I might decide to purchase. Like i said no one is perfect in this field. What is steering this thread away from its intended purpose, IMO, is the attempt to make WBA out to not having any faults. Again, IMO, the best response about WBA is to just present the positives you stated, but with the caveat of "okay so their prices are a little higher, but look what we are getting another option for titles", and just leave it at that. Just my opinion.

I feel the same way about pricing being the main complaint I have with the program. As you said, the jury is still out concerning DVD-Rs. And yes, all the studios have their good and bad points. I don't believe anyone is saying otherwise. The concern I have is that this becomes the new physical media model for classic TV, as studios see the greater profit margin and less stress. I believe that's what Howie is getting at as well in his reply below.

Originally Posted by BobO'Link [url=/t/295064/what-wb-shows-on-wb-archives/90#post_3906486]

Interesting comments from everyone. I'm not a fan of the MOD programs but *will* pick up highly desired titles if that's the only way to own one. Price is the biggest factor - I've *always* felt the MOD titles are overpriced by at least double what they *should* "retail" for. That's why I'll only purchase during one of the really good sales. But all of that is fairly irrelevant to this overall discussion as it the majority here seems to feel similarly.
It's one thing to release a niche TV series on MOD. I fully understand the reasoning there and grudgingly support that decision *if* it gets a true niche title into the hands of the few who truly wish to own a copy. But that is for true *niche* titles. There are several TV titles offered via MOD that just don't seem like they would be niche or a "low seller" on pressed disk. What is beginning to concern me about the MOD program is Warner's propensity to drop current *pressed* titles and move them to the MOD program often at 2-4 times the cost of the former pressed version. While I've not yet seen this occur with TV titles they've done this with quite a few movies. We've already seen a few TV series get *continued* in this fashion and I feel it's only a matter of time before we see a currently pressed TV season get cancelled and moved to MOD. I get the feeling someone is saying "Why do a pressed run when we can just MOD the title with far less overhead".

I'm basically concerned about the same issue, Howie. If the MOD program model is helping to see real niche-type titles get out, then fine. But I honestly wouldn't define Cheyenne, The F.B.I., The Courtship of Eddie's Father, or Tarzan as niche classic titles. I'm sure others will disagree with me on this but I just think those titles have too much name recognition to be defined as niche titles. Although I personally don't have an interest in every one of those titles, I do believe all are well known enough to have warranted pressed disc releases. Using some films as another example, I hated that Warners didn't follow through on their plans to create an Abbott & Costello pressed disc collection and instead went the Archive route with some of those movies. When I see brand name personalities like that getting Archive treatment as opposed to pressed disc treatment I cringe. That's just not niche material, imho, so I am hesitant to be really excited about the WB Archive program overall. I'm happy for the fans of the shows that have been released. It's not that. I'm just concerned with what I see as an ominous future for almost every classic title down the line. I really don't want to see everything vintage get relegated to DVD-R status. Thankfully we have been given at least a momentary reprieve with the release news about Maverick. Hopefully we'll get more news like that as opposed to everything being dumped into the Archive line.



Gary "the bottom line for me is I don't want to see the 'Archive' model take over and replace pressed disc releases completely when it comes to classic TV" O.

 

[GMBurns]

I'm jumping in late to this conversation, but I was wondering if someone could tell me the difference between pressed DVD and DVD-R? Do the DVD-R discs have a shorter life or are they of lesser quality? Since I really enjoy shows like The F.B.I. and Tarzan I'm willing to pay the higher price, and if CBS started an on-demand program I'd be willing to pay higher prices for shows like Cannon and Barnaby Jones. Are they a bad investment because pressed discs last longer than the burn-on-demand versions? Thanks.

 

[smithb]

Gary "the bottom line for me is I don't want to see the 'Archive' model take over and replace pressed disc releases completely when it comes to classic TV" O.

Definitely a concern. If it happens, I will be glad I purchased the bulk of my collection before that model took over.

 

[Rob_Ray]

     If the MOD program model is helping to see real niche-type titles get out, then fine.  But I honestly wouldn't define Cheyenne, The F.B.I., The Courtship of Eddie's Father, or Tarzan as niche classic titles.  I'm sure others will disagree with me on this but I just think those titles have too much name recognition to be defined as niche titles.  Although I personally don't have an interest in every one of those titles, I do believe all are well known enough to have warranted pressed disc releases.  Using some films as another example, I hated that Warners didn't follow through on their plans to create an Abbott & Costello pressed disc collection and instead went the Archive route with some of those movies.  When I see brand name personalities like that getting Archive treatment as opposed to pressed disc treatment I cringe.  That's just not niche material, imho, so I am hesitant to be really excited about the WB Archive program overall.  I'm happy for the fans of the shows that have been released.  It's not that.  I'm just concerned with what I see as an ominous future for almost every classic title down the line.  I really don't want to see everything vintage get relegated to DVD-R status.  Thankfully we have been given at least a momentary reprieve with the release news about Maverick.  Hopefully we'll get more news like that as opposed to everything being dumped into the Archive line. Gary "the bottom line for me is I don't want to see the 'Archive' model take over and replace pressed disc releases completely when it comes to classic TV" O.

As a classic movie fan, I feel your pain Gary, but with titles like Bette Davis' Academy Award winning performance in "Dangerous" and virtually every movie that Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy ever made together coming out through the Archive program, it's becoming clear that anything that's not in the AFI Top 100 is considered "niche". Likewise, the day is coming where anything from the B&W TV era that isn't "I Love Lucy," "Andy Griffith" or "Dick Van Dyke" will be considered "niche." But if that means that someday we'll see things like "December Bride", "Our Miss Brooks", "Love That Bob" and "Make Room for Daddy" in complete season sets, I can live with that. Would I like to see all these titles released on pressed discs at a bargain price? Sure! But it's not going to happen. "The Courtship of Eddie's Father" premiered 43 years ago. Today's culture views that the same way my generation viewed silent two-reelers in the late sixties.

 

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Gary OS

That's true in some cases, but I don't believe it's true in every case. For instance, as best I can tell they haven't come close to remastering every one of their vintage releases. They do it for some, but not for all. And the same would have to be true for music clearance issues. Not every vintage TV release is going to need massive clearance fees. So while your point holds true for some, it doesn't hold true for all the WBA releases. With some of them, they aren't having to pay much of anything. But they still don't mind charging an arm and a leg for them - in comparison to their pressed disc counterparts.

This is very true, Gary.