SVS PB2-Plus Test and Review - Long (1 Viewer)

[Robb Roy]

I haven't had a chance to really test the disk Ed gave me to see if it was one of the bad ones, and I only have the church organ CD, but if my burn is good (I'll hopefully be able to go through the whole disk this weekend) I'll also make some copies for folks who are also willing to make copies.

-Robb

 

[TommyL]

yeah Gordon, get with it! That scene in daredevil , which is one of the worst movies I've seen btw, when he strikes the organ pipes had my ears ringing for about 3 hours...I hit it up pretty hard, and I even had the B4+ hanging out in the middle area of the room (moving things around at the time blue man group was ok...but all that bass just wasn't putting any sweat into the woofer...maybe the organ cd will give it a little test

 

[Gordon Groff]

That scene in daredevil , which is one of the worst movies I've seen btw, when he strikes the organ pipes had my ears ringing for about 3 hours...

Amen! (about the bad movie, that is -it's funny, I have a friend who liked it better than Spiderman.!?? I personally thought it was a very poor Spiderman wannabee - oh well, that's what makes the world go round! ) I watched it w/Sweet Nancy, so could not really crank it.

Yessir- the Soundhound organ CD will make parts of your house do things they have never done before. Hehehe...

Gordon
B4 envier

 

[Robert AG]

Just to let you folks know - I am soundhound, but this forum doesn't accept nicknames!

Circulating the CD is OK with me, but as Gordon said, I'd like to see any writeups about it on any other threads.

I am a bit concerned with the quality of the disc after so many copies-of-copies-of-copies. Gordon's copy apparently had a good amount of degradation, so I sent him a fresh one from my master. For the record, there should not be any clicks, pops or other distotions on these discs. Hopefully all copies were made by digital ripping and not by analog copying. The downloaded copies should have been clean, as they were direct uploads from my master. I'd prefer that they not be available for download again however, but the "tree" idea is cool with me.

I don't have time to send out any more fresh copies myself - I've sent my share already!!!

Regarding the "Theater" organ disc. This is actually a more interesting sounding organ in my opinion, however it doesn't have nearly the sheer power or bass range of the "Classical" organ, which was recorded in a huge stone church. The "Theater" organ was in a smaller church, and of course only has a 16' rank of pipes as it's lowest. On the "Theater" tunes (not the classical selections on the same disc), there was a lot of sub-sonic air movement from the wind chests (which supply wind to the pipes) captured, and if your sub goes down that low, you will feel it. The first "theater" organ song in particular (track #5) has strong wind chest sound captured. If you hook the output of your player to an electronic meter of some kind, you will see it fluxuating wildly during otherwise quiet moments. It can easily overload your subs if the levels get too out of hand, especially at the beginning and end of the song. The frequency of this wind chest rumbling is probably down around 10-12Hz.

BTW, I am certifiably crazy - I have four 18" JBL subwoofers, each in an 8 cubic foot cabinet and driven by 1000 watts. I run them in stereo, crossed over at 60Hz, with two in each corner of my room (30' x 22'). The in-room response is dead flat at 10Hz. On my system, the "Classical organ" disc sounds - ahem - impressive.

Enjoy!

 

[Jason Brent]

Thanks for chiming in Soundhound, or um, Robert. I tried to get in on the deal over at outlaws website, but didn't get in on the deal.

I would also like to be included in someones tree. Whoever can fit me in there tree please PM me.

soundhound, I love your theater pics when I saw them BTW. Clever way to hide the projector. Very nice room!

 

[Jon-C]

Welcome to HTF, Robert.
Your organ recordings are AWESOME. My PB2+ loved them. As far as sound degradation goes I did notice I had to turn the volume ,on my receiver, up a little higher than I do on most commercial recordings I listen to. I received my copy from the same person Gordon received his from over at the S&V forum. From the way it looks my copy is fourth generation.

Gordon,
Have you had a chance to compare your Phatbass(S&V member) copy w/ the one Robert sent you? I am really interested to find out the difference in sound quality.

Jason,
Send me a PM if you haven't already made arrangements for a copy.

 

[KeithY]

I received the Phatbass copy also, didn't notice any pops or clicks...just the rumbling organ

 

[Mark Pedley]

Thanks Neal,

Who would like CDs from me.

Mark

 

[Edward J M]

RobertAG:

I'd like to thank you for making those recordings. I have talked up these recordings as much as possible since they are so impressive.

My disc is a first generation master ripped from the download. For the record, my copy is perfect, with no clicks or pops and with great ambience.

Despite have a cable modem, I never had a chance to download the files before all the hosting sites crashed, and all my copies I sent to others are disc to disc - and they do have clicks and pops from my POS burner, and one copy even fragged completely on one track. This does the recordings a disservice and for that I apologize to you and to anyone who got a less than perfect disc from me. I got dozens of requests for the discs and it was the simply best I could offer since I did not have the original files.

On the "Theater" tunes (not the classical selections on the same disc), there was a lot of sub-sonic air movement from the wind chests (which supply wind to the pipes) captured, and if your sub goes down that low, you will feel it. The first "theater" organ song in particular (track #5) has strong wind chest sound captured. If you hook the output of your player to an electronic meter of some kind, you will see it fluxuating wildly during otherwise quiet moments. It can easily overload your subs if the levels get too out of hand, especially at the beginning and end of the song. The frequency of this wind chest rumbling is probably down around 10-12Hz.

My 16 Hz setting on the SS filter cuts off sharply at around 11-12 Hz, it seems from my own FR sweeps. I switched the filter to Bypass and plugged two ports and played track #5 and the woofers do indeed flutter about during those quiet passages and it pressurizes the room, but I didn't play it too loud as I didn't have the protection of the SS filter in-line.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Robert AG]

Thanks for the welcome!

First, about the recording levels on the recording. They are so low because the bass level is so high! The levels of the bass go all the way to full scale digital, and there was no more dynamic range available before clipping would set in. Compressing or filtering the low end or dynamic range was completely out of the question, so the overall level had to be lowered to accommodate the strong bass.

I work in the motion picture industry in soundtrack music recording, mixing and editing for feature films. I would _never_ let a recording that had bass this strong get released generally to the public, as very few people would be able to play it without puking their speakers. All commercial recordings are filtered in one way or another, either by actual sub-sonic filtering, or by microphone choice and placement. This recording was not. It used a custom built mixer with microphones capable of near DC frequency range with absolutely no post-filtering - just the raw, uninhibited signal from 3 spaced omni-directional microphones in a huge room, recorded straight to digital.

One of the reasons for making the recording this way was to have some killer sub-woofer material for _myself_!!

 

[Robb Roy]

This recording was not. It used a custom built mixer with microphones capable of near DC frequency range with absolutely no post-filtering - just the raw, uninhibited signal from 3 spaced omni-directional microphones in a huge room, recorded straight to digital.

Yeah, talk dirty to us!

 

[JohnRice]

Robert,

I also want to thank you for providing these CDs. I was one of the folks who joined S&V in order to get the discs. I'm sorry so many people joined over there just to get the discs. I just don't have that much to say about hardware.

FWIW, as long as people didn't over-run the capabilities of their blank CD media, I would expect the copies to be basically perfect. The problem I find is, many people burn CDs too fast and they do outrun either the media or their computers. The copies I got, fortunately, have absolutely no anomolies that I could hear, and I wasn't exactly playing them at a low volume. I can hear the baton skitter across the room clearly from the other side of the house, though. It is kind of surreal listening to that from the listening position. I spout about my Thiels (the only piece of hardware, other than SVS subs I talk much about) but their imaging is so amazing, I can almost feel the baton hitting the floor and bouncing along about 10 ft. in front of me. I think it ends up further away on the left than it started on the right.

I did not find the levels at all odd. I figured you had gone pretty much to the max on the bass load. It is actually quite similar in volume to several of the better recordings I have, but far lower than many popular commercial releases, which I am convinced are often far too loud to make them sound "impressive".

The sound quality is silky smooth. Well done.

BTW, Ed. Did you get good copies to Tom and Ron at SVS? I just wondered, since you were having burning problems. If not, I can send copies to either or both easily, since I have their addresses.

 

[Robert AG]

John:

That baton drop is very uncanny in it's height imaging! I had many a debate about this - it it possible to encode hight information with two channels? I would think not, but that baton does indeed skitter along the floor, just like you are hearing, and just like it did on the stage during the recording.

There are many acoustic tricks that are in common use now to provide phantom imaging of things like surround speakers that aren't there, and these schemes do a good job at it. I wonder if inadvertently I captured some "head related transfer function" information with my recording microphones and the imaging to the floor is real. Or is simply the result of the fact that we _expect_ things to fall to the floor?!

It is a weird thing to hear, either way!

 

[Gordon Groff]

Have you had a chance to compare your Phatbass(S&V member) copy w/ the one Robert sent you? I am really interested to find out the difference in sound quality.

Jon,
No difference in overall sound quality. Just a couple places where it had some minor clicks and pops that sounded like a few digits were dropped. Otherwise it sounded identical. I don't think there are generational sound quality losses, but there can be acculation of errors depending on burners and readers.

I ripped the discs SH sent me to my HD and burned from there. I think they're clean, but don't have the ability to do a redbook scan verify. No complaints from me about the copies I got from Phatbass. I appreciated it!!

Glad to see this thread "happening", and thanks again to you, SoundHound for not only making an amazing recording but allowing us sub-enthusiasts play with it!

Gordon

 

[Jason Brent]

Aloha all,

I will soon be in possesion of the CD's as well. So far I have no one on my 'pass it on' list. So the first 2 people to get in touch with me get it. PM me please.

 

[JohnRice]

Robert, I'm guessing any height information coming from a 2 channel system, well, actually probably a system of any channels that isn't set up specifically for that type of directionality, would be subjective and also dependent on the speakers, acoustics, etc. Like you say, I expect perception would be part of it as well. For example, like a lot of people, I like to turn the lights off and close my eyes when I really listen to music. The imaging of the Thiels is so amazing, the sound stage on a good recording is basically limitless, with instruments still coming from distinct points anywhere in (or seemingly, outside) the room, not a smear like the "Bose" sound. When I open my eyes, it is limited a bit more by the sight of the speakers. The mind is a fascinating thing.

 

[Robert AG]

John:

I have a ProSonus test CD that has a "head related transfer function" demo where a signal rises in an arch from one speaker, up to the ceiling, and down to the opposite speaker. This from two speakers, so this type of thing can happen.

I like to listen in a darkened room too, and like you, when the lights are on, an element of the "reality" goes away.

I have heard Thiels, and they DO have incredible imaging! The path and distance you described regarding that baton drop is _exactly_ the path and distance it actually took when it dropped. That's good imaging!

 

[Edward J M]

BTW, Ed. Did you get good copies to Tom and Ron at SVS? I just wondered, since you were having burning problems. If not, I can send copies to either or both easily, since I have their addresses.

Ron's copy was flawless until the end and then a track fragged badly. Tom has not had a chance to listen to his yet (he is very busy and is "lucky to have sat radio going in the background").

I just cranked Track 3 of the Classical Organ, if only to feel the ending when the 32 footers come out of nowhere and flat rock the entire room! Surprise!!

 

[JohnRice]

Robert, I never really thought about it before, but our auditory systems are probably so sophisticated and sensitive that you actually could create height perception under the right circumstances. If you look at it from the standpoint of a sound being triangulated from your ears to a specific point in space. I suppose it is possible to create a change in the perceived height of a sound.

 

[Robert AG]

John:

Yes, how the sound entering our ears interacts with the pinnae and outer structure supplies additional information as to the directionality of sound, beyond other simple direction / distance cues. Head related transfer simulation uses these cues to trick the ear into hearing directionality that isn't there. Facinating field of study.