Restored SPARTACUS OCT 6. (1 Viewer)

[warnerbro]

I get your point that you really don't like this transfer. Personally. I think it looks pretty damn good on a 46".

I actually think the old Criterion DVD looked better than the Universal Spartacus bluray. I am hoping this time this gem gets the transfer it deserves. I believe it was mastered at a time when Universal was stepping into the bluray field and was terrified of the grain it saw in HD and preferred to smear it. They have finally moved away from this practice and have embraced a modicum of grain.

 

[Dr Griffin]

I actually think the old Criterion DVD looked better than the Universal Spartacus bluray. I am hoping this time this gem gets the transfer it deserves. I believe it was mastered at a time when Universal was stepping into the bluray field and was terrified of the grain it saw in HD and preferred to smear it. They have finally moved away from this practice and have embraced a modicum of grain.

I remember complaints from friends back in the early days of HD about those "little black dots, what the hell are they?" (grain). People were used to seeing no detail on a smeared, rabbit-ear received broadcast, 4:3, 480i, 19" TV set.

 

[Mike Boone]

I actually think the old Criterion DVD looked better than the Universal Spartacus bluray. I am hoping this time this gem gets the transfer it deserves. I believe it was mastered at a time when Universal was stepping into the bluray field and was terrified of the grain it saw in HD and preferred to smear it. They have finally moved away from this practice and have embraced a modicum of grain.

Actually, the HD DVD (1080p just like Blu-ray) that Universal released of Spartacus, years before its Blu-ray release, has the heaviest, thickest grain of any of the discs in my 572 Blu-ray, 21 HD DVD, disc collection. My theory is that the buyers of the Spartacus HD DVD gave Universal so much flak, the company overreacted and went too far in the other direction when creating the Blu-ray edition. Would love to see RAH comment more with any info he has learned over the years, about how Universal went about coming up with that ill fated HD DVD. I'm a big fan of Spartacus, having also bought the Universal and the Criterion DVDs, (of course the Criterion is the far better of the 2, for one thing it's anamorphic) but if that HD DVD of the film had been the first disc of that format that I'd gotten, I might have immediately sought to sell, on ebay, the Toshiba HD-XA2 top of the line player, that I'd paid $800 for in 2007, and never have touched another HD DVD disc, again.

 

[Alan Tully]

I remember complaints from friends back in the early days of HD about those "little black dots, what the hell are they?" (grain). People were used to seeing no detail on a smeared, rabbit-ear received broadcast, 4:3, 480i, 19" TV set.

Well to fair, I doubt if people saw the "black dots" in the cinema either. Shot in Technirama, it probably looked as smooth as a baby's bum on screen. And I'm sure this restoration won't be grainy either.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Well to fair, I doubt if people saw the "black dots" in the cinema either. Shot in Technirama, it probably looked as smooth as a baby's bum on screen. And I'm sure this restoration won't be grainy either.

Shouldn't be. I always thought of the "little black dots" as an extreme reaction anyway (and that comment had nothing to do with Spartacus - just a reaction to the early days of HD detail in general), but while I wouldn't expect a grain "problem", I don't think this new one will be smeared on toast either.

 

[OliverK]

It should be noted that the old HD-DVD had not so much grain but scanner noise in abundance - not the same thing.

The Blu-ray tried to erase it all and to many was even more unwatchable than the HD-DVD, especially Kirk Douglas looked like he was made out of artificial leather for the most part of the movie. Of course it may have been fine for the occasional viewing from a big distance on a small screen but then even VHS becomes watchable at some point, it is all a matter of relative seating distance...


Regarding grain there will be some but not too much - all of the 70mm screenings I have attended showed some grain and the same goes for the highest rated Blu-ray releases of even large format films shot on 65mm 5perf like Lawrence of Arabia or Ben-Hur. Regarding 35mm 8-perf productions like Spartacus appropriate grain levels can for example be seen in King of Kings, Circus World, the new 4k scan of Il Gattopardo, Vertigo or 55 Days at Peking - and soon I am sure Spartacus.


Still looking forward to hear which version of Spartacus (4k DCP, Blu-ray, 4k Blu-ray) will be available when.

 

[Stephen PI]

Robert, with regard to the audio. Some time ago you mentioned there were two 6-track mixes, one wide proscenium (?)

My question is, is there any possibility both mixes could be included on the disc?

 

[Mike Boone]

It should be noted that the old HD-DVD had not so much grain but scanner noise in abundance - not the same thing.

The Blu-ray tried to erase it all and to many was even more unwatchable than the HD-DVD, especially Kirk Douglas looked like he was made out of artificial leather for the most part of the movie. Of course it may have been fine for the occasional viewing from a big distance on a small screen but then even VHS becomes watchable at some point, it is all a matter of relative seating distance...


Regarding grain there will be some but not too much - all of the 70mm screenings I have attended showed some grain and the same goes for the highest rated Blu-ray releases of even large format films shot on 65mm 5perf like Lawrence of Arabia or Ben-Hur. Regarding 35mm 8-perf productions like Spartacus appropriate grain levels can for example be seen in King of Kings, Circus World, the new 4k scan of Il Gattopardo, Vertigo or 55 Days at Peking - and soon I am sure Spartacus.


Still looking forward to hear which version of Spartacus (4k DCP, Blu-ray, 4k Blu-ray) will be available when.

OliverK, thank you for giving me the proper understanding of just what term to use in describing the mess that is the image of the Spartacus HD DVD.


We watch films at a 9.5 to 10 foot distance from our 80 inch screen, which features outstanding clarity, detail, and color accuracy, and though I certainly recognize the shortcomings you note about the Spartacus Blu-ray, still, I would bet 20 dollar bills against donuts, that in our home theater, 9 out of 10 HTF members would actually prefer to tolerate the waxy look of the Blu-ray, compared to having to look at the horrible mess that is the HD DVD, for 3+ hours.


By the way, my thanks to you also, for your mention of King of Kings. That film is among scores of Blu-rays that I have never seen, but are part of about 105 Blu-rays ordered just since late October, during what I know was, and will remain, my last buying binge. (All those deliveries were fun, though, and that was definitely more healthy than the 4 day drinking binges I used to go on)


Anyway, your mention of it, had me put King of Kings on the agenda for a Thursday afternoon viewing. Have never even seen that film at the movies, or on TV.

 

[OliverK]

OliverK, thank you for giving me the proper understanding of just what term to use in describing the mess that is the image of the Spartacus HD DVD.


We watch films at a 9.5 to 10 foot distance from our 80 inch screen, which features outstanding clarity, detail, and color accuracy, and though I certainly recognize the shortcomings you note about the Spartacus Blu-ray, still, I would bet 20 dollar bills against donuts, that in our home theater, 9 out of 10 HTF members would actually prefer to tolerate the waxy look of the Blu-ray, compared to having to look at the horrible mess that is the HD DVD, for 3+ hours.


By the way, my thanks to you also, for your mention of King of Kings. That film is among scores of Blu-rays that I have never seen, but are part of about 105 Blu-rays ordered just since late October, during what I know was, and will remain, my last buying binge. (All those deliveries were fun, though, and that was definitely more healthy than the 4 day drinking binges I used to go on)


Anyway, your mention of it, had me put King of Kings on the agenda for a Thursday afternoon viewing. Have never even seen that film at the movies, or on TV.

In my opinion the HD-DVD is the lesser of two evils but one should not have to choose between two unacceptable versions of a movie of this stature, I could watch none of the two. But that doesn't matter anymore as it will be a thing of the past in (hopefully) a few months.


By all means treat yourself to King of Kings as it is outstanding - a very balanced disc that imo gets everything right including the Rozsa score which is magnificent.


That one flew right under the radar when it was released and many people do not even know it is out. Imo this is currently the best Blu-ray version of a (Super) Technirama (70) movie out there, just have a look here to get an idea:


http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=698&y=187&action=1&image=3&hd_multiID=738&cap1=15162&cap2=15154&disc1=1600&disc2=1599&lossless=#vergleich


Please do also note that this Disc does not sport boosted colors, contrast or excessive sharpening - it is just a very natural presentation and if a viewer would be so inclined he could add some himself, this is they way it should be!

 

[davidmatychuk]

By all means treat yourself to King of Kings as it is outstanding - a very balanced disc that imo gets everything right including the Rozsa score which is magnificent.

I went from VHS to letterboxed laserdisc to DVD and finally to Blu-Ray with "King Of Kings", and I couldn't agree more.

 

[Dr Griffin]

I wouldn't expect a Technirama title to better an Ultra Panavision 70 in the PQ department, but that's what we got with King of Kings vs The Greatest Story Ever Told Blu-rays.

 

[Robert Harris]

Robert, with regard to the audio. Some time ago you mentioned there were two 6-track mixes, one wide proscenium (?)
My question is, is there any possibility both mixes could be included on the disc?

No need. Most today can decode proper wide.

 

[OliverK]

I wouldn't expect a Technirama title to better an Ultra Panavision 70 in the PQ department, but that's what we got with King of Kings vs The Greatest Story Ever Told Blu-rays.

Indeed it is better, so much that I would rather call it an annihilation...

 

[David_B_K]

It should be noted that the old HD-DVD had not so much grain but scanner noise in abundance - not the same thing.

The Blu-ray tried to erase it all and to many was even more unwatchable than the HD-DVD, especially Kirk Douglas looked like he was made out of artificial leather for the most part of the movie.

I always thought the HD DVD looked as if it had a lot of video noise as well, because there was virtually no extra detail over the DVD versions. It just looked like an SD master passed off as HD.


It will be interesting to see which color style they use. The bright intense color of the Universal version, or the more subdued color of the Criterion version?

 

[OliverK]

I always thought the HD DVD looked as if it had a lot of video noise as well, because there was virtually no extra detail over the DVD versions. It just looked like an SD master passed off as HD.


It will be interesting to see which color style they use. The bright intense color of the Universal version, or the more subdued color of the Criterion version?

Yes there is indeed only a very small amount of additional detail underneath all that noise on the HD-DVD. I still preferred the Criterion disc but for my taste it had too much edge enhancement so I wasn't satisfied with either version even though the Criterion DVD was a decent effort for a DVD, the HD-DVD and the Blu-ray were both complete disappointments. So I solved the problem by watching Spartacus 3 times on 70mm in the last 10 years which was indeed quite satisfying.


And If the color style of the 70mm prints is any indication then the new version will look more like the Criterion DVD, especially the HD-DVD has a very different look from the two non-faded prints that I had a chance to see.

 

[RichardSC]

Thank you Robert Harris for the restoration work for the new Blu-Ray of Spartacus. I can still remember viewing Spartacus at the DeMille Theater when it first opened in New York. I hope they would release a collector's edition box set. But a new blu-ray restoration is a great achievement in any edition!

 

[Paul Rossen]

Thank you Robert Harris for the restoration work for the new Blu-Ray of Spartacus. I can still remember viewing Spartacus at the DeMille Theater when it first opened in New York. I hope they would release a collector's edition box set. But a new blu-ray restoration is a great achievement in any edition!

Of course memory does at times play tricks. However, I have yet to see a showing of Spartacus that matched that original presentation at The DeMille Theatre. What stood out was the outstanding use of sound in particular Alex North's spectacular score.

 

[AlexNH]

Any word on a street date? Fall sometime?

 

[Mike Boone]

Thank you Robert Harris for the restoration work for the new Blu-Ray of Spartacus. I can still remember viewing Spartacus at the DeMille Theater when it first opened in New York. I hope they would release a collector's edition box set. But a new blu-ray restoration is a great achievement in any edition!

Yes, it's really something, that from spending most of 1990 and early 1991 on the original restoration of Spartacus, up to the present, with his most recent restoration/preservation efforts for the film, Robert A Harris has had a personal relationship to this classic for a quarter of a century. All of us film lovers are so fortunate that at a time when a number of classic films were rapidly heading toward extinction, people like Mr Harris were willing to step forward and devote themselves to some incredibly painstaking, often tedious, work.

 

[trajan]

According to another forum.