Pioneer Plasma F.O.G needs a new TV (1 Viewer)

[John Kilroy]

Good morning all,

First of all thank you to Ron/the mods for getting my account restored.

My primary tv is a circa 2007 60" Pioneer plasma, made just a before Pioneer off-loaded their plasma business to Panasonic. I have a couple of other Samsung plasmas which I am also happy with. I'm very happy with the Pioneer. I love the black levels, the picture quality, all the things that make plasma great. However I need another TV for a room I am furnishing in my house. I would buy another new Pioneer plasma today if I could, if they made them bigger. But it appears that my plasma days are behind me.

I am looking for a new display in the 83-85" inch range. Here is where I need your help. There seems to be many problems with current displays that I don't have with any of my plasma sets. I read that black levels are not as good, they don't handle motion as well, and the off axis viewing is pretty bad. Is this all true? It seems to be true. When I go to my friends' houses and they show off their brand new big box store TV, they look terrible. The blacks are grayish, the whites are washed out, the lateral motion is jerky, etc. I see a lot of compression artifacts, especially on football. Plus the PQ is just--not that good. And the worst of all is the "soap opera effect," making films look like video. I don't know much about what causes that, I just remember Steven Spielberg et. al. railing against it a few years ago. I acknowledge that my friends don't have their displays set up optimally. Am I overblowing these problems or are they still real with the current crop of OLEDs and whatever technologies are out there.

Can I buy a TV that is going to compare favorably to my old school plasmas? I have looked at the LG C1/C2 and the Sony Bravia at Best Buy. It's so hard to to tell in the store because of the settings, lights, etc.

I'd like to keep the budget max to 5k. Please educate me and make some recommendations if you would like. If there are any favored vendors offering substantial cost saving on the forum like there used to be I would also like to know about them.

Thanks in advance and best regards,
John K.

 

[Greg.K]

OLED will have the best black levels, comparable to plasma since every pixel is illuminated individually. Also the best viewing angles. And 4K + HDR is something plasma just can't do.

The "soap opera effect" is due to motion smoothing and can be turned down in settings (ie disable TruMotion for LGs), I for the life of me can't see how people can watch it, or why it's the default setting. It's very disconcerting.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I would look into the LG G2 OLED model at 83”. If that’s out of your price range then LG C2 OLED model at 83”.

 

[edee_em]

Good morning all,

First of all thank you to Ron/the mods for getting my account restored.

My primary tv is a circa 2007 60" Pioneer plasma, made just a before Pioneer off-loaded their plasma business to Panasonic. I have a couple of other Samsung plasmas which I am also happy with. I'm very happy with the Pioneer. I love the black levels, the picture quality, all the things that make plasma great. However I need another TV for a room I am furnishing in my house. I would buy another new Pioneer plasma today if I could, if they made them bigger. But it appears that my plasma days are behind me.

I am looking for a new display in the 83-85" inch range. Here is where I need your help. There seems to be many problems with current displays that I don't have with any of my plasma sets. I read that black levels are not as good, they don't handle motion as well, and the off axis viewing is pretty bad. Is this all true? It seems to be true. When I go to my friends' houses and they show off their brand new big box store TV, they look terrible. The blacks are grayish, the whites are washed out, the lateral motion is jerky, etc. I see a lot of compression artifacts, especially on football. Plus the PQ is just--not that good. And the worst of all is the "soap opera effect," making films look like video. I don't know much about what causes that, I just remember Steven Spielberg et. al. railing against it a few years ago. I acknowledge that my friends don't have their displays set up optimally. Am I overblowing these problems or are they still real with the current crop of OLEDs and whatever technologies are out there.

Can I buy a TV that is going to compare favorably to my old school plasmas? I have looked at the LG C1/C2 and the Sony Bravia at Best Buy. It's so hard to to tell in the store because of the settings, lights, etc.

I'd like to keep the budget max to 5k. Please educate me and make some recommendations if you would like. If there are any favored vendors offering substantial cost saving on the forum like there used to be I would also like to know about them.

Thanks in advance and best regards,
John K.

Were your friends' TVs top of line in that $5k range you're talking about? I've heard some good things about the new Samsung flagships where they are comparing them head-to-head with LG and Sony OLEDs. Don't know where the real-world usage reviews are falling but the early discussions were quite favorable for the Samsung and the like TVs. I've never owned plasma or OLED so I wouldn't be able to make a recommendation.

 

[DaveF]

You can also check our Value Electronics TV annual shootout. I think they did the 2022 event a couple weeks ago.

 

[YANG]

certain percentage of modern day TVs are not made to last.
spendin a substantial amount on the "next closest thing" to plasma, aka OLED wouldn't last as long as your plasma TV does.
my suggestion? go for miniLED TV instead that cost significantly lower than OLED of the same size, then wait for microLED TV to be commercialized for the next level upgrade.

LED TV generally brighter than OLED TV during the day time with little interruption of light reflection on the panel glass. hence, the only little challenge you need to tackle, is just how to put a curtain to minimize the light that comes from the windows or doors.

i foresee that once microLED is out, OLED either from SAMSUNG or LG, the current major supplier to other TV manufacturer in the market, will face the pressure of OLED supply from China side, with BoE and CSOT giving better costs in supplies. after then when you added up what you may have spent on miniLED, then with the upgrade to microLED until, OLED, you might find that the total cost you have spent, would be equivalent to what you had spent with your plasma TV that is now defunct.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The light advantage that LED's had on OLED displays is not as pronounced as it once was back about five years ago. The OLEDs have come a long way in being much brighter.

 

[JohnRice]

My quick feedback is that all the problems you mentioned except viewing angle are due to horrible calibration of the TV. It sounds like every damaging option was cranked up And levels are way off. Keep in mind every mode like SDR, DV, HDR10, etc have to be individually calibrated.

Viewing angle will always be best on an OLED, which is as good as plasma. Motion can be an issue with cheaper models, but most often when unnecessary processing is used.

I can assure you that even a mid level QLED will put ANY plasma to shame in every way except viewing angle and maybe motion. Even my Vizio M Series crushes my old plasma in every way except viewing angle, which isn’t important to me.

 

[JohnRice]

BTW, the 42” plasma I had consumed 600 watts and the 65” Vizio P Series I replaced it with consumes 100 watts.

 

[John Kilroy]

Thank you for all the info. That's a lot to process! In the meantime, perhaps you can help with size related to viewing distance. I understand the viewing distance is 9-12 ft for an 83" or so screen. I want to sit closer though, perhaps 7.5 feet. What are the negative impacts going to be? Just that I might see pixels?

 

[edee_em]

7 1/2' for an 80+" TV may be too close according to any graphs/calculators I have seen that deal with that issue. However, who knows other than you? Try to find a seller that will let you try in home and go from there. The one thing I learned recently is the affect that the amount of ambient lighting that is in a room has on your personal comfort while watching TV. TVs these days give off a lot of light and that leads to what some call viewer fatigue. This light coming off the TV can be mitigated by having lighting in the room, say coming from behind the TV, as an example. I don't personally believe seeing pixels would occur. I have a 65" old, very old, Samsung 1080p and at 7 1/2' I don't see any pixelization. The calculator said I should be 9 1/2 - 10' back, which I am but standing 7 1/2' back didn't change the picture at all. Comes down to personal preference, I would say.

 

[William Moore]

Good morning all,

First of all thank you to Ron/the mods for getting my account restored.

My primary tv is a circa 2007 60" Pioneer plasma, made just a before Pioneer off-loaded their plasma business to Panasonic. I have a couple of other Samsung plasmas which I am also happy with. I'm very happy with the Pioneer. I love the black levels, the picture quality, all the things that make plasma great. However I need another TV for a room I am furnishing in my house. I would buy another new Pioneer plasma today if I could, if they made them bigger. But it appears that my plasma days are behind me.

I am looking for a new display in the 83-85" inch range. Here is where I need your help. There seems to be many problems with current displays that I don't have with any of my plasma sets. I read that black levels are not as good, they don't handle motion as well, and the off axis viewing is pretty bad. Is this all true? It seems to be true. When I go to my friends' houses and they show off their brand new big box store TV, they look terrible. The blacks are grayish, the whites are washed out, the lateral motion is jerky, etc. I see a lot of compression artifacts, especially on football. Plus the PQ is just--not that good. And the worst of all is the "soap opera effect," making films look like video. I don't know much about what causes that, I just remember Steven Spielberg et. al. railing against it a few years ago. I acknowledge that my friends don't have their displays set up optimally. Am I overblowing these problems or are they still real with the current crop of OLEDs and whatever technologies are out there.

Can I buy a TV that is going to compare favorably to my old school plasmas? I have looked at the LG C1/C2 and the Sony Bravia at Best Buy. It's so hard to to tell in the store because of the settings, lights, etc.

I'd like to keep the budget max to 5k. Please educate me and make some recommendations if you would like. If there are any favored vendors offering substantial cost saving on the forum like there used to be I would also like to know about them.

Thanks in advance and best regards,
John K.

I also own a Pioneer Plasma "Monitor" 60 inch, which I purchased in 2009. I have had it ISF calibrated twice and the picture still looks great. So good, in fact, that I refuse to purchase anything else until it "bites the dust." I'm not a fan of these so-called "Smart TVs" either. Too many gadgets and gizmos for me!

 

[Bartman]

You've chosen a good time to buy with Black Friday coming up. Enjoy your new TV, I converted from plasma to OLED five years ago. Expect better picture quality but not drammitically so for 1080p sources, you really need native 4K reference quality sources (discs?) to see what a modern TV is capable of.

 

[marshman1138]

LG is very hard to beat. I have a Panasonic VIERA TC-P55GT30 virtually side by side with my LG CX 65 and the difference is pretty obvious. The blacks on the LG are better than the Vierra and the bump from HD to 4K UHD is striking. The colours are amazing and it uses a lot less power then the plasma. I think the size tops out at 77" for the LG.

 

[ship.ahoy]

You've chosen a good time to buy with Black Friday coming up. Enjoy your new TV, I converted from plasma to OLED five years ago. Expect better picture quality but not drammitically so for 1080p sources, you really need native 4K reference quality sources (discs?) to see what a modern TV is capable of.

I have an LG OLED and a Pioneer 141FD 60" Plasma. Yes, 4K and the latest 4K, Dolby Vision, etc looks superior on the LG. However, I agree with you on the 1080P sources. I personally prefer the Pioneer for TV Broadcasts or DVD's on my Oppo. The Pioneer looks more natural for 1080P and lesser quality sources.

 

[John Kilroy]

Thank you again for your input. Since I started the thread, I have been checking out OLEDs and others at Best Buys (side rant: I haven't bought a new TV since 2007; is Best Buy the only place left to go and look at good TVs? What happened?).

I am impressed with the Sony line, particularly the A90J and A80J. You know that feeling when you just keep coming back to something? Mostly because of the deep blacks and ability to handle lateral motion. Also because I was able to most quickly learn the interface and dive down and get TV out of "BUY ME" mode and into something less garish.

Thoughts on Sony? Any reason I wouldn't be happy? My trigger finger is getting itchy.

 

[John Kilroy]

Were your friends' TVs top of line in that $5k range you're talking about? I've heard some good things about the new Samsung flagships where they are comparing them head-to-head with LG and Sony OLEDs. Don't know where the real-world usage reviews are falling but the early discussions were quite favorable for the Samsung and the like TVs. I've never owned plasma or OLED so I wouldn't be able to make a recommendation.

I didn't ask so I can't answer definitively. I'm making the assumption that on average, they are probably buying Costco/Best Buy/Target/Amazon mid-line or lower TVs.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Thank you again for your input. Since I started the thread, I have been checking out OLEDs and others at Best Buys (side rant: I haven't bought a new TV since 2007; is Best Buy the only place left to go and look at good TVs? What happened?).

I am impressed with the Sony line, particularly the A90J and A80J. You know that feeling when you just keep coming back to something? Mostly because of the deep blacks and ability to handle lateral motion. Also because I was able to most quickly learn the interface and dive down and get TV out of "BUY ME" mode and into something less garish.

Thoughts on Sony? Any reason I wouldn't be happy? My trigger finger is getting itchy.

The A90J models are on sale. Great displays that are top of the line. Go for it!

 

[John Kilroy]

The A90J models are on sale. Great displays that are top of the line. Go for it!

Thanks! DO you know if the A90J benefits from HDMI 2.1 (versus 2.0)?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Thanks! DO you know if the A90J benefits from HDMI 2.1 (versus 2.0)?

I don’t know. Do an internet search for its specs.