In-wall vs standalone Subwoofer & in-wall vs standalone speakers (1 Viewer)

[eddified]

Hello,

I've got an unfinished basement and am in planning stages right now. I had settled on building a 5.2.2 home theater system (used almost exclusively for tv & movies) with in-wall & in-ceiling speakers (including in-wall Left, Right and Center speakers), but with 2 standalone powered 12" subwoofers.

But then my co-worker showed me what he's putting in his new basement home theater, he's doing a 5.2.2 with in-wall everything, including in-wall subs.

This made me begin to question my decision to get standalone subwoofers.

The plan right now is for the room to be 12' by about 19'. I have a large family [7.5 children, perhaps more in the future] so fitting seating for everyone is a high priority. I say this because I'm slightly concerned about fitting 2 12" subwoofers...

I know that in-wall speakers will compromise the sound when compared with the same money spent on on-wall/floorstanding speakers. -- And I'm ok with that. I also know that in-wall subwoofers will also have compromised sound when compared with the same money spent on a standalone subwoofer. ...

So, I'm asking this: is there a big difference between compromising sound for in-wall speakers, and compromising sound for in-wall subwoofer?

Stated another way, (assuming I'm not an extreme bass enthusiast), is it strange for me to not want to compromise on the sound quality of an in-wall sub, but be ok compromising with the sound quality of in-wall speakers?

Rephrasing the question differently one more time: Is the compromise on sound quality when going to an in-wall sub a much larger compromise on sound quality than the compromise when going to in-wall speakers? Or is it a comparable compromise?

I'm enticed by the idea of getting 2 large standalone subs off the floor, but.... I'm worried about sound quality. Should I be very worried about in-wall subwoofer sound quality?

 

[Robert_J]

I'm enticed by the idea of getting 2 large standalone subs off the floor, but.... I'm worried about sound quality. Should I be very worried about in-wall subwoofer sound quality?

I equate quality to accurate reproduction of the input signal which means flat response with low distortion. You can get quality drivers and amps for in-wall subs that give you low distortion. But will they play as low as the input signal? Do you like action movies and want to feel the explosions?

All sound is made by moving air but bass really relies on moving massive amounts of air to reproduce signals down low. In-wall subs will limit your cabinet size and therefore limit your driver size. The ones I have seen are limited to shallow mount 10" drivers and they are usually sealed enclosures.

You will choose your sub location and it will never move. How do you know that is the optimal location for a sub? What if that location causes nulls in the frequency response where you like to sit? You can't EQ that away. You either move your sub or add another.

Do you have adjacent rooms that are not always occupied? Closets, storage room, utility room, etc. Those are perfect locations for an infinite baffle sub. You get the advantage of not having a big cabinet on the floor but you can use 15", 18" and even larger drivers. And since it is DIY, it will probably cost less than a retail in-wall sub.

 

[eddified]

I equate quality to accurate reproduction of the input signal which means flat response with low distortion. You can get quality drivers and amps for in-wall subs that give you low distortion. But will they play as low as the input signal? Do you like action movies and want to feel the explosions?

All sound is made by moving air but bass really relies on moving massive amounts of air to reproduce signals down low. In-wall subs will limit your cabinet size and therefore limit your driver size. The ones I have seen are limited to shallow mount 10" drivers and they are usually sealed enclosures.

You will choose your sub location and it will never move. How do you know that is the optimal location for a sub? What if that location causes nulls in the frequency response where you like to sit? You can't EQ that away. You either move your sub or add another.

Do you have adjacent rooms that are not always occupied? Closets, storage room, utility room, etc. Those are perfect locations for an infinite baffle sub. You get the advantage of not having a big cabinet on the floor but you can use 15", 18" and even larger drivers. And since it is DIY, it will probably cost less than a retail in-wall sub.

Thanks, I'm new to this "infinite baffle" idea, so I'll check it out. As luck would have it, I do have some extra space in an adjacent room where I could put something like that. Great comments, thanks.

 

[JohnRice]

To be honest, this post strikes me the same way so many others do these days. To paraphrase and summarize, "I've already decided what I'm going to do, I know it's the wrong way to do it, but I'm going to do it that way anyway. So, tell me I'm doing it right."

Just go ahead and do what you plan, but don't come in here asking to be told it's the right thing to do.

 

[DigitalDawn]

It's not necessarily true that in-wall speakers are inferior to in-room speakers. If an in-wall is designed correctly it can sound just as good as an in-room model.

For example, Triad speakers within a series (Bronze, Silver, Gold etc) are designed to sound the same -- cabinet characteristics, driver placement, and crossovers are all adjusted to make each speaker sonically identical. So, for example, InRoom, InWall, OnWall, and even InCeiling speakers should match one another acoustically.

They also make great InWall and even InCeiling subs.

www.triadspeakers.com

 

[DaveF]

I have an SVS standalone system in my living room and a Triad in-wall solution in my basement (including in-wall subs). In a perfect world, my basement system would be all freestanding speakers and subs. The performance for cost is much better. But freestanding speakers were unworkable for the basement. In-wall speakers allowed my media room dreams to be realized.

In-wall subs are an extra degree of "gotta do it right" because they are physically attached to your house. If a wall sconce isn't quite tight, it will rattle. If the installer does it wrong, the wall will vibrate and buzz.

When buying speakers, you're paying for: Audio Quality, Aesthetics, and Room Space.

You can buy freestanding towers and subs to have the money go towards Audio Quality, and sacrifice Room Space and maybe Aesthetics.
With in-wall more of the dollars are going to Aesthetics and Room Space. You can get great Audio Quality, but it takes more absolute dollars to meet the absolute quality of free-standing speakers.

For me, it was a worthwhile trade. The sound is good, and the room is awesome.

 

[DaveF]

The plan right now is for the room to be 12' by about 19'. I have a large family [7.5 children, perhaps more in the future] so fitting seating for everyone is a high priority. I say this because I'm slightly concerned about fitting 2 12" subwoofers...

Yes. Get in-wall speakers. Big family: 10 people bustling about in the theater. Free standing and on-wall are at greater risk of being knocked over, bumped into, etc. In-wall are protected more from that. However, the acoustic wall-covering mesh is at risk of jelly hands and running with scissors. But it can be biased up out of reach of the smaller hands.

That's my guess.

 

[DigitalDawn]

How does your cat like the subs? Mine is afraid of them.

 

[DaveF]

Our cats just ignore the sub.

 

[eddified]

Well I have made some preliminary decisions. But I've got nothing built yet so I can change my mind. And I have changed my mind about some things already. See, I'm still trying to figure out what it is that I want.

One thing I won't be changing my mind about is in-wall loud speakers. But that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about subs because I am willing to seriously reconsider the subs.

The question is not, "can in-wall loud speakers sound acceptable?". I've already decided they can. The question is, "can in-wall subs sound acceptable?", and I'm not yet convinced they can, but I'm open to comments about this topic, and if the arguments are convincing enough, then I may change my mind.

 

[eddified]

To be honest, this post strikes me the same way so many others do these days. To paraphrase and summarize, "I've already decided what I'm going to do, I know it's the wrong way to do it, but I'm going to do it that way anyway. So, tell me I'm doing it right."

Just go ahead and do what you plan, but don't come in here asking to be told it's the right thing to do.

Nope. See my previous message.

 

[eddified]

Yes. Get in-wall speakers. Big family: 10 people bustling about in the theater. Free standing and on-wall are at greater risk of being knocked over, bumped into, etc. In-wall are protected more from that. However, the acoustic wall-covering mesh is at risk of jelly hands and running with scissors. But it can be biased up out of reach of the smaller hands.

That's my guess.

Oh wow, Triad sells in wall subs!? Very interesting! I did not know this! Well I will investigate and see about listening to them. I'm going to do some research.

 

[DaveF]

I recommend trying to get a demo at someone’s home if possible. Retailer demos of in-wall speakers, in my experience, are much less common than demoing standalone speakers.

 

[eddified]

I found some good reviews of in-wall subs. I don't think I'm that picky, so I would probably be satisfied with the audio performance of, say, the Totem Tribe 12" in-wall. That said, my pocketbook isn't satisfied with the price.

Before I started this thread, I wasn't aware that there were some fairly positive reviews of some of the in-wall subs. I should've thought to do that research before. It just didn't occur to me.

As well, I had a hard time articulating exactly what I was asking, and the thread title wasn't helping either. Oops.

 

[eddified]

If the financial situation was much different, I'd be likely to go with one of the Triad in-wall subwoofers options, since they are deeper, and I have the space for them, and I'm already liking the Triad brand. Maybe I'll wire some extra speaker cable to that part of the room and leave it as a possible upgrade for the future...

 

[DaveF]

The better In-wall speakers aren’t cheap. They’re a bit more niche, typically bought by people doing custom installs. They’re not normally bought by the mass market shopping Best Buy and Amazon

 

[eddified]

I did find some Polk in-wall speakers that fit the budget. The Polk in-wall sub however is $900... I think I'll pass ....

 

[DigitalDawn]

It may not be super easy to find a Triad dealer with speakers to audition. When Control4 bought Triad they added a ton of new dealers who are unfamiliar with the brand and most don't have any speakers to audition.

Dave is right, if you have a chance to listen at someone's home then that would be a good start. Keep in mind, that Triad's InWall subs start at $1400 MSRP. This includes the sub and the outboard RackAmp.

I know lots of folks with Triad systems, so let me know if you want me to find a Triad owner in your area.

 

[DaveF]

Through this, you’ve not given your budget so it’s impossible to recommend whether an in-wall sub and speakers can even fit your spending threshold.

 

[eddified]

I'm looking to spend about $2400-$2500 on speakers and subwoofers. Hoping for a 7.2.4 setup. I did say 5.2.2 in the Original Post but that's for the Receiver... As far as actual speakers, though, I am planning for 11 speakers with hopefully 2 subs. (And then wiring some speakers in parallel... Yes, I know the amp has to support it and be careful of impedance etc etc. )