Free power to the people? (1 Viewer)

[Dennis Reno]

Ash - don't be impressed with the magnets. Where I work we use magnets (approx 1.5" X 1.25" X 1.25") that put those to shame. Each magnet has over 300 lbs of force. If one gets attached to a steel or iron object, it can be damn near impossible to remove it. However, to my knowledge, no one has been able to generate any "free" electricity with them!
This is simply a sham. Your best bet would be to report the outfit to the BBB. Don't feel bad, most people, myself included, hope to tell the local power company to stick it! Once fuel cells are developed for home use, you will be able to do so. Unfortunately you will then become a slave to the company providing the fuel

 

[Jay Taylor]

Disproving perpetual motion machines like this can have its rewards.
In 1900-1905 Albert Einstein worked for the Swiss patent office while studying for his Ph.D. at the University of Zurich. One of his tasks was to determine if the devices being submitted for patent involved perpetual motion, and if so what was their flaw.
This brainwork paid off. In 1905 he presented his Special Theory of Relativity then in 1916 the General Theory of Relativity.
The world has never been the same.
Jay Taylor
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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

 

[MickeS]

Stephen, thanks for the link. The guy behind this is apparently a well-known travelling con-man that now has moved his business to the web. The article from APB News was from November of 1999.
I like this quote from the article:

In one demonstration, Lee lifts a piece of metal and holds a magnet to it. Park said Lee tells the audience that because the magnet will stay on the metal indefinitely, it is a source of infinite energy.

Ummm... OK. Newton had nothing on this guy!
/Mike

 

[RobertR]

Methinks a subscription to Skeptical Inquirer is in order.

Extremely sound advice.
This kind of stuff is unfortunately not much different from some of the stuff we see in High End audio...

 

[Joseph S]

I prefer "Static Electricity!"

Paid for by the alliance to save energy

 

[CRyan]

ASH, I am sorry if I offended you. It was completely not intentional. I did read the complete site before I posted. In their FAQ, they bring up the term perpetual motion. However, they do not answer their own question. That is simply because perpetual motion machines cannot exist. At least under todays scientific thought. Perpetual motion machines have been a dilema for science for MANY years. If this gentleman had actually been able to produce such a device, you would have seen him on your local news. Everyone would be talking about it. EVERYONE.
On a side note. How is this not completely illegal? Why is this person not in jail? Has he not been reported for interstate fraud. This guy should be in federal "pound me in the ass" prison!
Again, sorry
C. Ryan
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http://www.elitestoragedesigns.com/RyanOAR.bmp

 

[Cees Alons]

...that because the magnet will stay on the metal indefinitely, it is a source of infinite energy

Now I see the relation with gravity: because a heavy rock will lay on the ground forever, the earth is a source of infinite energy!

Cees

 

[BrianW]

Magnets are indeed fascinating, are they not? Their ever-present force compels us to speculate on their wonders with regard to electrical and kinetic energy, and invisible action-at-a-distance. But, as others have pointed out, force is not energy, and you’re not going to get any energy from a permanent magnet without exerting even more energy to move something against its lines of force.
However, some have speculated that energy can be extracted from magnets by nuclear means. Strictly speaking, the mass of the magnet can be, according to some, converted directly to kinetic energy, under the right conditions. Taking this to the limit, the magnet would lose half its mass and become a magnetic monopole before no more energy could be extracted from it. How to do this, however, is anybody’s guess. Many physicists believe that magnetic monopoles must surely exist in our universe, but not a single magnetic monopole has been observed, nor do we know how to go about creating one. In our experience, every magnetic North Pole is always accompanied by an equal and opposite magnetic South Pole. Separating the poles is impossible. If you cut the magnet in half between the poles, you get two smaller, dual-pole magnets.
Of course, it’s no big revelation that a magnet’s mass can be converted into energy. Theoretically, any mass, magnetic or not, can be converted into energy. But can it be done, as we would dream, simply by arranging the geometry of a magnetic armature just so and then giving it a life-giving spin? Thermodynamics says no, it can’t. But when you consider the possibility that with each spin of the armature, the magnets are losing not only mass, but also the strength of one pole, could it be conceivable that the geometry could be arranged so that the continual loss of mass and increase in magnetic disparity between the magnetic poles would make the armature’s spin a continuously “downhill ride”?
If I had a set of magical magnets that could lose just one of their poles on command, then I might be able to build such a system. But it wouldn’t work for more than a two or three spins before my magnets became spent and useless (at least for this application) monopoles. If it takes a hundred years for a magnet to become a monopole (actually, I think it’s more of a half-life kind of thing), then the growing disparity between the magnet’s poles wouldn’t be quick enough to overcome the friction of the armature’s shaft, much less to generate 30,000 watts of power. As far as the magnets’ mass is concerned, if they continually lose mass as the armature spins, then it could be arranged so that one side of the armature will always be heavier than the other side, which would tend to propel the armature much like a water wheel. But if it takes 100 years for the magnets to lose half their mass, then, again, the loss of mass wouldn’t be fast enough to spin even the most well-oiled armature shaft.
But using these classical methods of extracting energy from mass- and pole-losing magnets can’t be the right approach. Mass contains much more energy than can be derived from spinning a water wheel. What a waste it would be to convert mass into pure energy only use its sudden absence to cause an imbalance in the weight of an armature. Surely we can do better than that. Where does the extra energy go?
Well, never mind where it goes. We don’t even know how to extract it. Unfortunately, theoretical physics is going through a phase where theories are occasionally adopted and pursued because they are “pretty.” String Theory, which is very “pretty” indeed, predicts the existence of magnetic monopoles and suggests that their creation involves conversion of half a dual-pole (normal) magnet’s mass to energy. And many physicists, as a result, believe magnetic monopoles must be possible in our universe, not because of evidence (currently, string theory is virtually unprovable), but because they are enamored with the theory that predicts their existence. It may well be the case that in our universe, magnetic monopoles not only do not exist, but cannot exist. And this would certainly be in line with our observations. Certainly, not observing a single magnetic monopole doesn’t prove they can’t exist. But the creation of a hypothesis – even a mathematically beautiful one – that can’t be tested is seldom a useful scientific endeavor. And any predictions such a hypothesis makes about monopole magnetic decay are half-massed at best.

-Brian
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Oh, man! Physics puns! It doesn’t get any better than this!

 

[Anthony Hom]

This reminds me of the episode of the Simpsons where the school is on strike and Bart and Lisa are starting to act strange. Lisa makes a perpetual motion machine, which Homer calls a joke, then he says:
"Lisa.... in this house WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!"

 

[Andy_S]

One form of perpetual motion:
Start putting together a home theater. Once you start spending money, it'll never stop.
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Check out my home-built mame cabinet here!

 

[Jonathan Burk]

I had the best high school physics teacher ever. Once or twice a month, he would put on a crazy wig and lab coat, and it would be "mad scientist day". He would do cool experiments and such.
One day, we came into the class, and he had an interesting device on his desk. It was a piece of plywood, about 3'x2', with a motor on one side, and a generator on the other, connected by a belt on one end, and a wire on the other. Hooked in line with the wire was a light bulb. He explained that he had built this machine to provide free energy, where the motor would drive the power generator, and then the power generator would generate electricity to run the motor. When this process ran, the light bulb would light from the excess energy.
Imagine our surprise when he started the machine (by pulling a rip cord) and it ran, with the light bulb lighting up! The whole class was amazed. He talked about how one day, all our homes would have these machines, and energy would be free.
He went on for about 5 minutes, until he finally let us in on the secret. "It's b***s***", he said. "For the rest of your lives, you'll have con artists trying to sell you the same machine. It might not always look the same, but it will always give you the same benefit: something for nothing." He then held up the foot switch he had been using to start and stop the machine

.
That was 10 years ago, but I remember it like yesterday. And was he ever right.

 

[Eric Scott]

It is that there is this thing called thermodynamics that essentially debunks any claims of "free energy"... any energy comes from somewhere, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Mike, I don't usually contradict or start a rift with a Mod, (and I do agree with you about speakers.) But I was once in the gym at the end of a workout and was staring at 280lb. that was about to collapse on my chest. I’m grimacing, grunting and my arms are shaking when suddenly I look up and this sexy voluptuous trainer in a body stocking is leaning over my face and says, "Need a little help?"
Man, I pushed that weight up and down 3 more times in about 2 seconds, and I said, "Yeah, can you put on another 20 pounds?"
I call that "Free Energy!" However, I failed to get the free lunch!

 

[Mike Voigt]

Eric,
ROTFLMAO... heck of an energy boost there!!!
I am sure lunch with said trainer in a private location would have been, umm, very enjoyable...

Mike