Battlestar Galactica Season 3 (Oct 06) (1 Viewer)

[Phil Florian]

I honestly don't think this was retcon material. I think, like the Tyrol drawn to the temple and Tyrol drawn to the idea that he was a Cylon, that this has been in the works since the beginning.

Tigh is definitely the weak link in that regard since he and Adama have known each other for decades but not too much. Go back to the religious-heavy episodes early in Season 2. Roslyn's research into the scripture kept repeating something along the lines of, "This has all happened before and it will happen again." Religious hokum or historical fact? Has humanity fled from one star system to another for eons? Chased by their own hubris? Is Tigh the remnant of an older race of Cylons?

Gads, it is complicated. But it will be fun speculating (at least for a few months, anyway).

 

[JediFonger]

i thought it was awesome! =). just left me speechless like no other TV series could after a finale!

i'll tell you this, it's MUCH better than either of the stargate finales =).

 

[Dave Mack]

When we heard that they were doing "Watchtower.."
we were both like, "WTF?!?!?" I mean it took me along time but I finally grudgingly accepted that certain things like the water cooler, scale (in the 4 meeting scene this past ep.) weight benches, microphones, trucks, suits etc... look just like earth versions (although I still think it's just laziness on the designers part, personally) but hearing the exact same lyrics to Watchtower just was too much for me. I mean, come on.
Then I read here, maybe they're picking up radio signals from earth and Starbuck says she's been there. Ok, cool. I can accept that.
But reading this...?

Quote:
I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source."

I'm sorry, but that is just the dumbest, laziest thing I can imagine.

but what do I know

I'll ask Fonzie as I think I saw him go by on his motorcycle a few times this season anyways... We still like the show but S3 overall compared to S1...? oof.

 

[Travis_S]

Well this is what RDM said when he was thinking about using a song from Earth in "Colonial Day":


http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Colonial_Day

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Moore told Bear what he needed to get the sound he wanted. It doesn't mean that's the end-all definitive explanation for why they used that song.

 

[Dave Mack]

I hear ya, just hoping it's not the case. If they reach earth and it's like 2000 BC then it's just pure laziness IMHO.
Clever scifi can use metaphors, similarities, get inspiration from other sources etc... not just 100% word for word copying.
Also, on the last episode, Scifi showed with that damned time compression frame removal thing. Looks like it skips a frame every second. Most noticeable when movement is happening.
I know they do that for their syndicated shows (like say, The X-files) (and don't get me started on TVLand...) to get an extra commerical in but on a first run show it's inexcusable. Even my fiancee, a non AV geeky person kept commenting on it. It drives me CRAZY.

description...

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1245608

 

[Sam Favate]

When speculating what time period on earth Galactica might arrive at, let's not forget the opening to the original series:


Do we know how many decades or centuries have passed since the 13th tribe left the others? That might give some indication as to what time in earth's development coincides with Galactica.

Of course, after Crossroads II, it should be in a post-1967 world (after Dylan's John Wesley Harding album, which contained All Along the Watchtower).

 

[BrianW]

I gotta say I'm with Dave on this one. It's one thing to use contemporary music in the soundtrack because you think it's cool and it gives you the atmosphere you want. But it's a completely different thing when the characters are singing the lyrics to the contemporary song, because then there has to be a direct connection between the characters and contemporary society -- indeed, between the characters and the viewers. I never assumed the characters were speaking English, but I guess now they must be. I'm looking forward to season 4, but if it turns out that a Bob Dylan song actually exists in their universe without Bob Dylan, then that's just beyond dumb. What's the point of that?

 

[Greg.K]

Hmm. Reminds me quite a bit of Stephen King's The Dark Tower.

 

[Jeffrey Johnson]

Dave,
Thanks for pointing this out. I've noticed it on the last several episodes, and thought I was just being overly AV sensitive (which my wife accuses me of on a regular basis). Glad to know I'm not losing my mind, but this is (at best) a shady and annoying practice.

I guess I'll have to buy the DVD's

Jeff

 

[gushin]

Everyone that is complaining about having to wait 'til January, the same thing is done with other genre shows and they have not suffered ratings-wise from such a hiatus i.e. 4400 and Dead Zone on USA each with 13 episodes shown over the summer each summer (long 9 month hiatus).

The question now remains if Kara is the fifth of the final five. Yes, it will be interesting to see how Tigh is a Cylon. Anders was on Caprica for a good while after the nuke, and could have been comprimised / replaced at any time during then. We know too little of Tory to make any conjectures.

Man, what a show.

 

[Jason Seaver]

One thing that struck me was that Tigh said something along the lines of "we weren't always like this", which made me wonder if they weren't "lost" models, but new ones. Perhaps the Cylons have been looking to replace the missing six (including D'Anna) models, opted to use Tigh/Tyrol/Tory/Anders as templates/DNA donors, and having a whole bunch of other copies running around the universe is messing with their heads.

Also: Were any of them exposed to the virus a few months back? Probably only applies to Tigh and Tyrol, but if they were with no ill effects, than something really wacky is going on.

 

[Andrew Beacom]

Which was a brilliant series of seven books with a final chapter that was absolute cop out and decidedly unsatisfying.

 

[Jim_C]

I found the last chapter frustrating but I could think of no better ending. The previous chapter held the cop out, IMO.

Sorry to get off-topic.

 

[Dave Mack]

Yeah, I understand (though disagree with) why they do it with say, "The X-Files" but on a first run show? It also wreaks absolute havoc with my PJ (Mits hc3000) as it is a native 720P device and no matter what res. I feed it with this show, (480i, 480P, letting the cable box upconvert to 720P or even 1080i) it produces combing when this happens. It breaks the 2/3 pulldown cadence. That plus seeing people just skipping forward while they're walking or seeing ships lurch ahead when they're going by really breaks the mood for me. I feel like I'm having a seizure.

 

[Shawn Shultzaberger]

Going way out on a limb here, but what if the song was played when the final five were created? Tyrol and Anders said: "like something from your childhood". Their childhood would be when they were created (or born).

And I believe the President is one of the 5. When they jumped into the nebula she got really dizzy right before the power dropped on all the ships. Perhaps the Kamala is affecting her ability to pick up on this song / signal.

Doh! Never mind. I just read Ron Moore's interview about the season finale. It answered some questions and created others.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Now that they are confirmed as four of the final five Cylons, I think that they first heard the song in the same place that D'iana continually killed herself in order to reach.



As for the time compression, I wonder if it was to get an already long episode somewhat closer to time? Have you guys noticed this on past episodes, too?

 

[Yee-Ming]

I have such mixed thoughts about the finale that it'll take a while to get them in order. Still, at least on some points:-
Brian summed up all my thoughts about the trial, and then some. I too would've been very interested in seeing a trial involving Caprica Six as witness, arguments about whether she was "capable" of giving testimony, although one wonders whether that would have strayed too far into Star Trek "Measure Of A Man" territory.

I know the Dylan song -- though more in its Hendrix incarnation -- but never recognised any of the melody. Then (unfortunately) having seen some referene to "Watchtower" somehwhere, when the lines were being recited I cottoned on immediately.

Given the one-year lapse between detonation of the Cloud Nine nuke and detection by the Cylons being an intentional plot device, I wonder therefore whether speed-of-light time lag between Dylan's 1960s song and "receipt thereof" by the fleet, however many light years away they are (at least several thousands?) is indicative of what they find on Earth, i.e. one several thousand years into our future. Which is fine, since it avoids the entire Galactica 1980 fiasco. Indeed, as has already been suggested, Earth could be the Cylon homeworld now, and that would be an interesting way to go.

My biggest problem with the Final Five (Four out of Five?) is of course Tigh, given his long known history with the Admiral. And also Tyrol, which makes his son with Callie akin to Hera, screwing up the special position Hera has been held up to up until now. (I know, these points have already been made...)

Notice how they showed in the Roslin/Athena/Caprica Six vision in the opera house that they "saw" the Final Five in "light form", but never saw who the Five actually were. Leaves a lot of wriggle room, but given Tyrol's definitive statement "we're Cylons", as already noted, any such wriggling out would be unsatisfactory. Yet to have these four (or rather, Tigh and Tyrol; I'm not too fussed about Tory, with Anders I'm still thinking about it) as Cylons is also rather unsatisfactory.

Romo and Lee turning their backs on Baltar was fully expected, yet quite satisfying. Baltar's self-justification cut no ice with either -- Romo (possibly) took the case simply to boost his profile as a lawyer, Lee did it because of his personal belief in the legal system, but not in the client. Once the case was over, neither had any reason to have anything further to do with Baltar. And when battlestations (OK, they call it "condition one") was set, it was interesting to see Lee's conflict: he had notionally resigned and therefore wasn't required to do anything, but in the end his "real job", if you will, won out and he suited up and got into a Viper. Obviously without any "official approval" since Helo, the acting XO, kept asking who was in the Viper. But that's fine too, Lee is a fighter pilot/CAG, that's what he does, when basestars converge on the fleet, what else would he be doing?

Starbuck showing up wasn't any real surprise. Oddly enough, her saying that she knew where Earth was and could lead the way wasn't that surprising to me either -- what else is she being brought back for, at least drama- or plot-wise? Ties in with the fact that she recovered the Arrow Of Apollo from Caprica.

 

[Dave Mack]

Adam, I think SciFi did it on the last couple of episodes. They also do it on alot of their syndicated stuff like The X-Files. It absolutely drives me crazy. I can't even watch Star Trek (TOS) on TVLand because the jitters make me feel like I'm losing my mind. Spike TV does it on their TNG reruns and it's unwatchable. I'd rather have them just chop 30 seconds out for the extra commercial, they already butcher the original eps. anyways. That plus all the "COMING UP: THE DRESDEN FILES..." and all that promo shit really breaks the spell for me. Better off waiting for the DVDs.


but I'm just a grumpy old man...

 

[Francois Caron]

One question about the Final Five. Have any of the other Cylons ever directly called them Cylons? Or do they see the Final Five as being "something else"?

It's nice that Moore acknowledged the mediocre Season 3 was caused by the removal of a plot device. Most upper-level people in the entertainment industry are so arrogant that they would NEVER admit their mistakes in public even when they're blatantly obvious. This encourages me to continue watching the series to see if he makes things right.