Battlestar Galactica Season 3 (Oct 06)

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Sam Favate, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Quentin

    Quentin Cinematographer

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    I'd let that go, if I were you. It's out, they are. If the show tried to renige, it would be a catastrophe.
     
  2. Quentin

    Quentin Cinematographer

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    Baltar did NOT hear the music. In fact, I'd say he is the MOST human character of any in the show. He proved it this season - the foibles, the flaws, the strengths, and, God, the weaknesses. He is self-preserving humanity through and through.

    Tigh is awfully old with a load of history for a cylon. In fact, I think it is verifiably impossible for him to have been a cylon from birth. Which means, this Tigh (cylon Tigh) must have replaced the real Tigh at some point - memories and all. Probably at his lowest, alcoholic, disappear of the face of the Earth moment.

    The rest are young enough to have always been Cylons.

    I think it is safe to assume that Lucy Lawless was apologizing to Tigh for ripping his eye out ("Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was you...").

    Actually, we are just assuming because there are 4 of them that they are the final four. For all we know, they're just cylons! And, Roslin could very well be one too. She's having simultaneous dreams with Six and Athena.

    I also think Starbuck is the final FIFTH (or one, or whatever), and she has returned not only to show the fleet to Earth, but my guess is that she is the one who brought the cylon fleet. She's leading them all to Earth.

    Why "All Along the Watchtower"? I have no idea. Is it a transmission from Earth? Is it Dylan's rendition? U2's? The funky Indian one we heard? Does that mean there are people on Earth? Are there cylons too? If there are cylons, then Tigh COULD be cylon from birth. It would mean they're all an offshoot of us.

    Do we really have to wait until 2008? Nothing in the fall?
     
  3. Don S

    Don S Stunt Coordinator

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    Well not so much at all. What "out" is that they THINK they are, nothing else at all. I loved the finale. Looking forward to next year greatly. Nice to see Starbuck again also. I wonder who/what she is and what happened to her. I'm actually glad the trial is over and done. Unlike many, I could have done with passing on the trial completely and focusing on the other aspects. The trial offered me personally next to nothing for 2 weeks. The rest of the finale? I really enjoyed it [​IMG]
     
  4. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan
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    Excellent episode and season ender.

    You know, I like thinking about what is going on in shows and reading (and some times participating in) discussions trying to figure out where things might be heading, but ultimately I want the story told to me. I don't want to tell it to myself. I don't need to automatically understand where everything is going and how everything fits together before the writers decide to tell us. So I have absolutely zero problems with some of the big questions raised by this episode.

    I thought everything in this episode was fantastic, and I love that it seems pretty clear that those four are the other four of the final five.

    And the Starbuck thing was great, because it somewhat negates complaints about her "death" not being done well enough. Though most already figured she was one of the final five, it was great to see "her" back so soon. And so calm and at peace with herself. Nice.
     
  5. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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    Well, I can't say that I agree with Moore. I thought way too much was crammed into the last few episodes, and left me going, "huh?". Changing course midstream is never a good idea.

    And it is going to suck having to wait almost a year for another epsiode.

    Jason
     
  6. Phil Florian

    Phil Florian Screenwriter

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    I have been watching Season 1 recently and I have to say, these revelations of the final Five make sense based on previous shows. You have two of the Five being self-destructive in that they never figured out who they were or what their purpose was in life (Tigh and Starbuck). They are so similar they hate each other's guts. Starbuck, like the Cylon Boomer, had the real affinity for flying the Raider when no one else could. Tyrol had a lot of self-doubts about his own Cylon-ness in Season 2 when he was counseled that he wasn't (by a Cylon who actually didn't realize he really WAS a Cylon). Tyrol also had all this religious knowledge at the temple, too.

    There is probably more (or Moore) but I honestly think they were laying some of the groundwork for this for a while. Roslyn, on the other hand, is the question mark. I think the key is the Kamala Extract that allows her to tap into the Cylon brainwaves as she did in Season 1 with Leoben and now with the other Cylons.

    I still agree that Baltar is NOT a Cylon. He and Adama are like two sides of a coin. Both are flawed men who have made a lot of mistakes but one does them for self-preservation and the other for what he perceives as the greater good.

    The channeling of a Dylan song was freaky and yet to me extremely cool. This reminded me of one of the few actually good Original BSG shows. There was the one where Apollo would hang out in the old navigation room of BSG where they used to chart their path using stars and radio signals only. It was out of service and a good place to get away. He was toying with receiving some sort of staticy signal that he never quite cleaned up. Just as he left at the end of the episode, the staticy image resolved itself and it played out as the footage of the lunar landing. It was a connection to the Earth that they are heading towards.

    Is Dylan a Cylon? Or Hendrix? Or BOTH!!!???

    Wow...this will be a long 9 months or so. Glad we will have the Pegasus distraction in between to keep us happy.
     
  7. Mark Turetsky

    Mark Turetsky Supporting Actor

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    I don't think it's just a matter of them thinking they're Cylons. They all went into that sparring room independently, all at the same time. It's not just a matter of them all realizing they can hear the music, coincidentally showing up in the same place and jumping to a conclusion, because it's a huge leap to make based on simply sharing a hallucination. Something tells me that they were all "activated," but that they weren't sleeper agents like Boomer was, but something else entirely. The way they were all speaking with each other, as if they had a ton more information than the audience, leads me to believe that all of their origin was revealed to them and unlocked from their minds.
    As for "All Along the Watchtower," in the first few minutes, when Tigh said "there's too much confusion" I shouted "I can't get no relief!" at the screen. My guess is that they were activated by their proximity to Earth, and the song is possibly an errant radio signal, much like the one in the movie (and I assume the book) Contact. They seemed to have some passing familiarity with the song, and it might even be the means by which they were activated, like the key phrase in The Manchurian Candidate. Their repetition of the first few lines of the song seemed to be something they were doing entirely subconsciously, until they all gathered together and hummed the first few chords of the song. There are a lot of implications to their seeming familiarity with Earth culture, and the origins of human-form Cylons. We still know very little about the origins of the 12 models, and it seems like it's shaping up to be a bit more complicated than their simply being manufactured by previous versions of the Cylons.
     
  8. David Norman

    David Norman Cinematographer
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    Well it looks like Starbuck returned from her Z'ha'dum a little quicker than her predecessor, but with much the same effect. We never met or heard of Starbucks Father previously correct? Starbuck's mother was in the first Cylon War stationed on the front lines. Starbuck's Mother and Leoban (the most Religious of the Spylon models) obviously knew something was special about Starbuck.

    End of Season 3 is no less shocking than the end of season 2.

    If the Final 5 turn out to be who it appears to be then some other assumptions fall into question.

    Callie/Tyrol's baby now take on a bit of a different meaning unless there is something truly different about the "Final Five" which makes them even more unique among the Final 12.
     
  9. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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    Oh man, my mind is blown. This was a bigger mindfuck than "The Prisoner". I knew that surreal music sounded vaguely familar, and then when they started quoting lyrics, I gasped: "All Along the Watchtower!" Either Dylan is a Cylon plant, or all of the Baltar as Jesus theories are blown straight out of the water. Back with my review in an hour or two.
     
  10. Greg Kettell

    Greg Kettell Screenwriter

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    The 2nd half of the season has been dragging horribly, mostly due to the fact that the Cylons had been put on the back burner for a while.

    But the final minutes of this episode did what they were supposed to do, they made me really want to see season 4. I am hoping that it will be the final season, and that it's a real roller coaster ride to the end.
     
  11. seanOhara

    seanOhara Supporting Actor

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    What are you, an uncultured heathen? Everyone's heard of Fred Astaire.

    Seriously though, Starbuck discussed her father with Helo in the second season episode where they visited her old apartment on Caprica.
     
  12. David Norman

    David Norman Cinematographer
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    Or at least who she presumed was her Father -- his name wasn't Joseph by chance.
     
  13. Mikel_Cooperman

    Mikel_Cooperman Producer

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    That's a pretty strong statement. You sure you arent thinking of Lost lately?

    I thought it was great. A little odd that Starbuck just shows up like that though.
    So what does All Along the Watchtower mean? They going to get to Earth and it be the Summer of Love?
    Season 4 should be great.
     
  14. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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    Battlestar Galactica 3x20 - "Crossroads", part two

    We're the last few episodes before "Crossroads" disappointments? Absolutely. Having seen the conclusion of the finale, however, I'm willing to say that it was absolutely worth it. This was better than anything in season three. It was better than anything in season two. It was the best episode since "33", maybe the best ever.
    I strongly disagreed with the direction taken in the season two finale. It changed the characters but did little to change the long term picture. The characters changed more during the break between seasons than they did during the first two seasons, and that was dramatically unsatisfying.
    Season three will pick up the characters exactly where we left them, but everything around them has changed. That is dramatically satisfying. In "Maelstrom" the show seemed to be petering out with a whimper. Now, the show feels as open and alive as the very first episode. The pieces are in optimally dynamic places. And unlike this rush job of a final arc, Moore and Co. have an entire year to make the next one just as good as it can be. The potential for truly unique televised science fiction has never been greater.
    What is amazing is the way the episode completed two complete stories in one hour. The first half concluded the courtroom drama rather effectively. If they hadn't burnt through four standalone episodes, it would have probably been fleshed out into an entire episode. That said, it was leaner and rawer as it was presented here. The second half is the real capper, the ionic nebula and the beacon to earth. It could have easily been another disappointment like the non-revelation surrounding the Eye of Jupiter. This is different. This is immense, and strange, and uncertain. Like the best revelations, it eludes a simple summary and leaves us scratching our heads.
    One of the main advantage of this two-in-one format is that it leaves room for moments between each story. Where normally we'd go to credits, the show lingers as the characters realign themselves in the aftermath. Normally the last thing we'd see of Adama and Roslin is her giving him shit for his decision and him explaining himself. When we'd pick up the next episode, they'd already be back to their respective roles. Here the latter scene plays as a continuation of the first, and it's truly fascinating seeing the way Adama and Roslin pull out of the conflict to resume their duties. Adama's whole posture changes, the look in his eye changes. He goes from personable to stoic. Roslin seems to exhale and let her resentment pass out of her. As they stand around the center of the CIC, I was drawn to contrast between the lovely early scene when the two flirt over the phone. It's lonely at the top, and all they've got for company is each other. Both scenes are a perfect realization of that.
    Meanwhile, Baltar finds the lawyers who worked so hard to earn him his freedom are none too hesitant to leave him behind. As much as he resented his imprisonment and trial, it was an identity. With that gone, he is displaced much like Adama was when Cain arrived, though the loss occurred at polar opposite ends of society. When the cultists sneak him away during the power outage, I thought it enormously fitting. Like it was in the beginning, when Helo gave up his seat, Baltar is just carried along by events through vast revolutions. For all of his cunning and intellect, he isn't someone who does things; he's someone things happen to.
    I loved Apollo's testimony before the court. Aside from being a compelling explanation of his position, it served as a wonderful justification for who these people are and how they have gotten here. He concisely pointed out that, for all they have struggled to hold onto, things are fundamentally different now. Roslin is the president by politically-justified popular acclamation, not an election. She is the right president for the right time. Tigh is a flawed human being (or Cylon; more on that later) but a damn fine officer with insight that nobody else has. Their entire human population equals about 15 percent of Anchorage, Alaska. Holding Baltar to standards that elude, by necessity, the remainder of the population is cruel and unusual. He got angry and passionate in a big way for the first time all series.
    Those who were concerned that Adama acted out of character last week should be satisfied by the outcome here. Apollo was talking about the fleet in his soliloquy, he was also responding to his father. Baltar is the fleet's scapegoat. Apollo was the admiral's. Adama can be a harsh man, but he is a fair one and could have taken no other action in the light of Lee's testimony. As easily as bitter differences rise up between father and son, they are becoming increasingly adept at bridging the divide. It might not seem like a hopeful moment, but it was.
    Speaking of hopeful moments, I can think of no greater speech in the series than Tigh's "My name is Saul Tigh. That's the man I want to be" speech. These characters have come so far, and experienced so much they are who they are regardless of what they are. I still hope that they turn out not to be among the Final Five because it greatly diminishes the human achievement in their journey. But even if they are, their characters remain intact. If Tigh is a toaster, he is still Adama's oldest and closest friend, beaten and damaged and scarred. If Tyrol is all nuts and bolts himself, he is stick the keen and devoted deck hand, responsible husband and loving father. What little we know of Anders and Tory remains true. It's a fundamentally different thing than when Boomer was outed. And they are fundamentally different than Athena, who has been only Cylon.
    The strange distorted music that seemed so familiar turned out to be a much greater mind fuck than the huge leap forward in last season's finale. The very existence of a Bob Dylan song in a show that has previously had no concrete connection to Earth is a tremendous discovery. If it originates from this third rock from the sun, then the Baltar as Jesus theories are sort of shot out of the water. If it originates from the Cylons or the colonial fleet itself, it raises new and exciting question about the means by which the fleet ultimately assimilates into the native population. All four who hear it associate it with childhood. If they are Cylons, could that mean they hear it in the nether region explored by D'iana between life and death (ie. directly before being downloaded)? If they are humans, could that mean that it is not the fleet that assimilates itself stealthily into our population but a future earth that assimilates itself into the colonies? It would explain how the fashions,technology and culture so closely mirror our own.
    The main argument for the transmission being a heretofore undiscovered transmission from earth is the lyrics themselves. Neither the Cylons nor the colonials use grammar like "I can't get no relief." There are also gender roles in the song which seem not to exist in either society.
    And then there's Lee's reunion with Starbuck. Is she physical? The comm-static in her voice from Lee's cockpit seems to imply she is. Logic seems to imply that she must be more like head Six and head Baltar. The final, unsung verse of the song goes:
    Considering this final scene, it seems oddly prescient. Perhaps, if Pithia gets scrolls maybe Dylan should too. Regardless, Starbuck's reappearance — though not really surprising — was necessary. It transforms "Maelstrom" from a boring and pointless affair to a dramatically unsatisfying precursor to a very dramatic surreal journey to come.
    And then there's that final shot, a total break from the documentary feel of the show. Pulling out to capture the whole Milky Way. And zooming back in to a point pretty close by, past the moon, to capture the Floridian peninsula and Eastern seaboard gleaming in the sunlight. Wow. If next season is the final one, it's going to be an intense run to the end.
     
  15. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Adam you are more forgiving and/or enthralled with the mindfuck pulled off in the last 10 minutes than I am. The trial ran too quickly and even then it became obvious that Baltar was going to walk well before the trial ended so there was little tension in the so-called proceedings. The verdict also became so apparent once the once the trial proceedings were manipulated or forgotten.

    The real interest was on the four and that was doled out in such little quantities and the 'surprise' reappearance of Starbuck along with the song was frustrating in its spareness. There is a difference between earned drama such as the previous season ending episodes and contrived drama which is the way this season ended.

    This is further symptomatic of the rejigging that was done during midstream of season 3. Given the time gap until the season 3 answers are provided and the speculation that will run until the season four airing, the creative team of BSG have put themselves in harm's way. No matter what they deliver next season not all the fan's are going to be pleased.

    This series is now truly at a crossroads.
     
  16. David Forbes

    David Forbes Supporting Actor

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    Is Kara a bridge between the Cylons and humans? Are the final five also the Lords of Kobol? If so, what does that mean to the Cylons if humanity's gods are also the "missing" (and presumably more powerful) final five? Does that end the war? Is Kara going to lead both the Cylons and humanity to Earth? If so, where is the conflict? Is there another enemy waiting out there bigger than them all?

    I love the possibilities this opens. Lou, I understand a little of your frustration -- it was rushed, and some of the groundwork was not well laid out -- but the entire point of a mindfuck is that you can't ever see it coming. I found the Dylan song to be much more of a MF than Kara's return, which was mostly expected. Though I did not expect her to say she had been to Earth.

    On a completely different note, does anyone know the explanation for why the season break is so damn long?
     
  17. Jim_C

    Jim_C Cinematographer

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    I've been lurking in this thread all season and only rarely posted. I've enjoyed many of the posts from all of you but I just wanted to add to the chorus of others who say 'thank you' Adam, for such well written reviews. I look forward to reading your reviews each week.


    As for the finale, I guess I'm in denial but I'm hoping they're not part of the final five. To me it would diminish what we've seen them go through, at least when it comes to Tigh and Tyrol. You guys are probably right that they are, though.
     
  18. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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    So, after all this talk about how the hybrid is a "one of a kind", then Tyrol has his own hybrid?
    Heck, Starbuck might be a hybrid herself.

    While some might argue this is all a RetCon, it does remind me of when Tyrol thought he was a Cylon, and when we HOPED that Tigh's wife was a Cylon. Was she Starbucks mother? I'm not sure they said that. And she is dead anyway.

    Also, Anders was "picked up" on New Caprica. Much like Sharon was picked up.

    It does actually work with the continuity that has been developed. My guess is perhaps they are the "final 4", but many not toasters? Maybe they are gods that CREATED the toasters? Something odd like that

    Nick
     
  19. RafaelB

    RafaelB Second Unit

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    Wouldn't it be interesting if the real conflict next season comes from Earth?
     
  20. Michael Napier

    Michael Napier Stunt Coordinator

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    I'd like to know what version of "All Along the Watchtower" that was and where can I get it? I liked the heavy guitars. It definitely wasn't Hendrix.
     

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