General Discussion BATTLESTAR GALACTICA (2003-2008) (2 Viewers)

[Wes Candela]

ANSWER 2 OUT OF 2:

Help? Confused in "The Farm" when Starbuck awoke in the medical bed. We kept saying: "how did she get there!?"

Great question. There was absolutely no explanation into how she arrived there.

She simply woke up and was there being treated

Based on the deceptive doctor's explanation to her, we still don't understand.

yup. You guys are right on track because at this point...you should have no idea how she arrived there.

Last we saw was she was playing that sport with the leader, Sam Anders. ...

so she was shot, there was a battle there was an attack.
she was hit

so it sounds like you missed something right beforehand

That is why she is being patched up.

Or is it?

Might have to look at that again, as the Blu-ray may have been damaged & jumped the first chapter or something?

it sounds like it may have jumped.

....Ok, just read Wikipedia's "The Farm," and it looks like was an initial ambush by the Cylons that got her to the medical facility. Didn't see that! Ugh! must investigate....

Yes. . You've got it.

And her doctor, "Simon O'Neill"

Yeah. Simon.

btw....I was thunderstruck how the actor's (Rick Worthy) speaking voice: pitch, tone, inflections was so much like Barak Obama. I'd never seen this actor before, and it was filmed (2005) at least three years before Obama was in office (2008 - ) , so it didn't seem intentional by the actor or creators.

yes, wonderful characterization by him great speaking voice,

I wondered if other fans thought the same at some point. Or maybe I'm high on crack?

I did not take you for a crackhead so I'm going to say it is a similarity you picked up on that was not intentional.

It's all so much fun and intrigue.

h it is. So glad you feel this way.

Even when the Cylons - especially the Sharon ones - seem to be shifty against their own kind.

phenomenal. The six and Sharon, who is an eight I believe.
Those two specific characters are having doubts about the plan and our believing that coexistence is possible between the cylon and human.

Great acting by all, and compelling writing+.

YES!!! it is phenomenal, and the further they get into the storytelling
The more seasons, the show gets granted, the more risks they take in the writing and the more compelling the show becomes.

this is not accurate to describe as Science Fiction, this is a drama, action, sci-fi, human study

there's a reason 20 years later it's still in my top 10 if not top five of all time

Having such a terrific time.
I love that you're having such a great time, it's contagious. You've dragged me right back into the Battlestar right next to Adama
And Roslyn

I'll have to find the list of the top 50 shows from the 21st-century that I just read a few months ago

But Battlestar was up there in the 20s I believe (Mad Men was number 1)

it's so frackin' good.
it blows my fracking mind

 

[Wayne Klein]

The only bad episode. I always tell people to avoid is black market. Oh my God.
stay away it has no business. being in the series.

Yeah I forgot about that one. Yes, it’s also bad but TM, TMD is a miscalculation on so many levels.

 

[Wes Candela]

Yeah I forgot about that one. Yes, it’s also bad but TM, TMD is a miscalculation on so many levels.

I liked that episode to be honest. It cracked me up. we get to see Saul's other half for the first time and man is she a train wreck...
And from there her antics never stop...

until they do...

Trying not to give anything away...

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

Bonus points if you noticed the Ellen picture Saul burned a cigar through in the pilot (David Eick's wife, Jennifer) is a different person than the series (Kate Vernon)... except in a "Previously..." shot where they changed it to be Kate.

And then Gaius Baltar got a Starfleet commission, but that is another story...

And, spoiler alert, Ellen also (unofficially) joined Starfleet...

 

[Wayne Klein]

I liked that episode to be honest. It cracked me up. we get to see Saul's other half for the first time and man is she a train wreck...
And from there her antics never stop...

until they do...

Trying not to give anything away...

The tone is what didn’t work for me. It played as a farce a times and farces Are difficult to pull off. It didn’t for me.

i liked her character just not the episode.

 

[Wes Candela]

The tone is what didn’t work for me. It played as a farce a times and farces Are difficult to pull off. It didn’t for me.

i liked her character just not the episode.

Totally, I totally understand
It's like you're in the middle of Shakespeare and somebody starts talking like a character from friends

I wonder if they were trying to make us feel as drunk as both her and saul were

 

[Wes Candela]

The eye of Jupiter

 

[Jack P]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but when the original is brought into this with the term "cheesy" that is when I'm not going to withhold what I and many other fans of the original think about this version that forever will be known by the acronym GINO (Galactica In Name Only).

A lot of us were upset by the fact that this other version ever existed, and I will be honest, most of us wish it never did. When this show came on, it permanently derailed 25 years of hopes for just one thing we'd been waiting for ever since the last original series episode, "The Hand Of God" (No, "Galactica 1980" does not count. Let's leave that out of the discussion other than the fact that that is where Moore got the idea for humanoid Cylons from). That was a simple bit of *closure* to an interrupted storyline regarding characters we had come to care about and whose performances in how they brought them to life is the reason why Galactica endured in its popularity well beyond our childhood years. Contrary to what Ron Moore thought, it was *never* about daggits, 70s hair and special FX. It was about the people of this series as characters to relate to, who were part of a positive outlook of people working together toward a common goal in the face of tragedy and adversity. Yes, the show didn't live up to its full potential because of the pressures put on it by the censors at ABC (who basically neutered the Cylons as an effective threat when they were suddenly insisting on having no one die after we'd seen the tragedies of early episodes) but in terms of the *template* that existed at the time, there was nothing fundamentally unsound that necessitated such a dramatic overhaul into the dark, depressing nihilism of Ron Moore's version that utterly and completely stood the positive philosophy and positive depiction of faith and religion on its head. We simply wanted *closure* for the show we loved with the original cast returning one more time and I would remind people that Tom DeSanto was going to give us a continuation that got derailed because of 9/11 and then somehow the whole thing ended up in Moore's hands, and Moore decided he was going to remake Galactica in the image of those who hated the original series. For many of us, this was something we could not accept and we let our feelings be known. In response to this, Moore, David Eick and others then proceeded to not only trash the original series fanbase, they also trashed the original series with a lot of misinformation about it and openly encouraged critics to dump on the original when praising their show, with the crowning example coming when Harlan Ellison gushed about Moore taking the "worst show on TV and making it the best" (the fact that this meant Ellison was hypocritically throwing his standards about people taking other people's work and changing it to something the original author didn't intend for into the toilet, was due to his personal grudge against Glen Larson).

When I tried watching this show at the time it was on, I found that I couldn't get through an episode without shaking in absolute anger over seeing what had been done to a property I had enjoyed and which I might add has inspired me to be a fanfic author for the last thirty plus years. Today, I am able to be a little more detached in the sense that I don't react to an episode with anger, I only react with a guffaw at what I see. Part of this is because in 2020 some partial vindication for the original series fans came in the form of an audio drama, "Saga Of A Fugitive Fleet" that assembled almost the entire surviving original cast (Terry Carter, Anne Lockhart, Laurette Spang, Noah Hathaway, Sarah Rush, Jack Stauffer; combined with archival audio of Lorne Greene, Richard Hatch and John Colicos) and gave us four Galactica radio type stories but with the caveat that due to licensing issues, they could not use the name Galactica nor could the characters refer to each other by name (in short it was Galactica in everything but name). Finally hearing something more substantive than a five minute trailer helped erase some of the sting that had existed because this is the thing that drove most of the fan anger toward Moore's show. It was the idea that the last chance after 25 years of hopes for a true continuation/closure project had been slammed in our faces. This was something Trek fans didn't experience because the original Trek cast went as far as they could in movie projects and consequently the Trek spinoffs and reimaginings did not serve as an obstacle to anything involving the original. That was not the case with Moore. I can guarantee with 100% certainty that if we had been given closure to the original series first, say in the 1990s when all of the cast save Lorne Greene could have participated, and THEN, Ron Moore five years later comes up with this, the reaction would not have been as strong as it was. This is the thing I think most people have never fully realized when they look back on the animosities and bad feeling that developed.

So today, I don't feel the instinctive feelings of total hatred for Moore as I once did. But I still dislike it and do not consider it real Galactica or good television for that matter. For me, it's a nihilistic universe of dysfunctional characters, subverted morality and ultimately a series that doesn't know what it's doing since that whole matter of "The Cylons Have A Plan" turned out to be a big nothing.

These opinions are my own. I have made them only because if the original is going to have the term "cheesy" hung on it again, I think it is only fair that a perspective that does not accept that premise in relation to what I think is the really inferior show also be heard.

 

[Josh Dial]

Yikers.

 

[JimJasper]

The eye of Jupiter

Always frustrating when a beloved show isn't respected nor treated well, per what Jack P wrote in the above post #68, re the original Battlestar Galactica.
****
Wes stud, at this point, I did go back to "The Farm" episode to figure out how Starbuck woke up in the makeshift hospital. I had fracking missed the opening scenes before beginning credits! We had started that episode after the opening credits. Uggh. So that part got watched finally.

Haven't had my heart beating uncontrollably from a movie or show for years. So...after a serious victory over some critical Cylon issues (S2 Ep12), when a sweaty Starbuck on Pegasus, let's say...later approached Admiral Cain.... My heart was POUNDING in my chest during Starbuck's slow walk! That hasn't happened to me in years.

Still greatly enjoying it. Lots of credible plot twists, that make my jaw drop.

Folks above complained about the episode Black Market. So this episode carried me along for the first while, good acting as always, but...when it was over...uggh: most of the story is unrealistic.
Next is Downloaded (S2 Ep18)
As always, it would have been a blast to see it with you in a cool home theater! Haven't had this much fun in years with a TV show.

repeating the suggested watch list for Battlestar Galactica 2003-2008:

1. Miniseries (Parts 1 & 2)
2. Season 1 (13 Episodes)
3. Season 2 (20 Episodes)
4. The Resistance Webisodes (10 Mini Episodes)
5. Season 3 (20 Episodes)
6. Razor Flashbacks Webisodes ( 7 Episodes)
7. Razor (Movie)
8. Season 4.0 (10 Episodes)
9. The Face Of The Enemy (10 Webisodes)
10. Season 4.5 (11 Episodes)
11. * The Plan

* Don't Bother Unless You Must​

 

[Wayne Klein]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but when the original is brought into this with the term "cheesy" that is when I'm not going to withhold what I and many other fans of the original think about this version that forever will be known by the acronym GINO (Galactica In Name Only).

A lot of us were upset by the fact that this other version ever existed, and I will be honest, most of us wish it never did. When this show came on, it permanently derailed 25 years of hopes for just one thing we'd been waiting for ever since the last original series episode, "The Hand Of God" (No, "Galactica 1980" does not count. Let's leave that out of the discussion other than the fact that that is where Moore got the idea for humanoid Cylons from). That was a simple bit of *closure* to an interrupted storyline regarding characters we had come to care about and whose performances in how they brought them to life is the reason why Galactica endured in its popularity well beyond our childhood years. Contrary to what Ron Moore thought, it was *never* about daggits, 70s hair and special FX. It was about the people of this series as characters to relate to, who were part of a positive outlook of people working together toward a common goal in the face of tragedy and adversity. Yes, the show didn't live up to its full potential because of the pressures put on it by the censors at ABC (who basically neutered the Cylons as an effective threat when they were suddenly insisting on having no one die after we'd seen the tragedies of early episodes) but in terms of the *template* that existed at the time, there was nothing fundamentally unsound that necessitated such a dramatic overhaul into the dark, depressing nihilism of Ron Moore's version that utterly and completely stood the positive philosophy and positive depiction of faith and religion on its head. We simply wanted *closure* for the show we loved with the original cast returning one more time and I would remind people that Tom DeSanto was going to give us a continuation that got derailed because of 9/11 and then somehow the whole thing ended up in Moore's hands, and Moore decided he was going to remake Galactica in the image of those who hated the original series. For many of us, this was something we could not accept and we let our feelings be known. In response to this, Moore, David Eick and others then proceeded to not only trash the original series fanbase, they also trashed the original series with a lot of misinformation about it and openly encouraged critics to dump on the original when praising their show, with the crowning example coming when Harlan Ellison gushed about Moore taking the "worst show on TV and making it the best" (the fact that this meant Ellison was hypocritically throwing his standards about people taking other people's work and changing it to something the original author didn't intend for into the toilet, was due to his personal grudge against Glen Larson).

When I tried watching this show at the time it was on, I found that I couldn't get through an episode without shaking in absolute anger over seeing what had been done to a property I had enjoyed and which I might add has inspired me to be a fanfic author for the last thirty plus years. Today, I am able to be a little more detached in the sense that I don't react to an episode with anger, I only react with a guffaw at what I see. Part of this is because in 2020 some partial vindication for the original series fans came in the form of an audio drama, "Saga Of A Fugitive Fleet" that assembled almost the entire surviving original cast (Terry Carter, Anne Lockhart, Laurette Spang, Noah Hathaway, Sarah Rush, Jack Stauffer; combined with archival audio of Lorne Greene, Richard Hatch and John Colicos) and gave us four Galactica radio type stories but with the caveat that due to licensing issues, they could not use the name Galactica nor could the characters refer to each other by name (in short it was Galactica in everything but name). Finally hearing something more substantive than a five minute trailer helped erase some of the sting that had existed because this is the thing that drove most of the fan anger toward Moore's show. It was the idea that the last chance after 25 years of hopes for a true continuation/closure project had been slammed in our faces. This was something Trek fans didn't experience because the original Trek cast went as far as they could in movie projects and consequently the Trek spinoffs and reimaginings did not serve as an obstacle to anything involving the original. That was not the case with Moore. I can guarantee with 100% certainty that if we had been given closure to the original series first, say in the 1990s when all of the cast save Lorne Greene could have participated, and THEN, Ron Moore five years later comes up with this, the reaction would not have been as strong as it was. This is the thing I think most people have never fully realized when they look back on the animosities and bad feeling that developed.

So today, I don't feel the instinctive feelings of total hatred for Moore as I once did. But I still dislike it and do not consider it real Galactica or good television for that matter. For me, it's a nihilistic universe of dysfunctional characters, subverted morality and ultimately a series that doesn't know what it's doing since that whole matter of "The Cylons Have A Plan" turned out to be a big nothing.

These opinions are my own. I have made them only because if the original is going to have the term "cheesy" hung on it again, I think it is only fair that a perspective that does not accept that premise in relation to what I think is the really inferior show also be heard.

One can enjoy both for very different reasons. I disagree that it’s GINO myself. It takes many of the themes and develops them in unique and interesting directions.

 

[Wes Candela]

Always frustrating when a beloved show isn't respected nor treated well, per what Jack P wrote in the above post #68, re the original Battlestar Galactica.
****
Wes stud, at this point, I did go back to "The Farm" episode to figure out how Starbuck woke up in the makeshift hospital. I had fracking missed the opening scenes before beginning credits! We had started that episode after the opening credits. Uggh. So that part got watched finally.

Haven't had my heart beating uncontrollably from a movie or show for years. So...after a serious victory over some critical Cylon issues (S2 Ep12), when a sweaty Starbuck on Pegasus, let's say...later approached Admiral Cain.... My heart was POUNDING in my chest during Starbuck's slow walk! That hasn't happened to me in years.

Still greatly enjoying it. Lots of credible plot twists, that make my jaw drop.

Folks above complained about the episode Black Market. So this episode carried me along for the first while, good acting as always, but...when it was over...uggh: most of the story is unrealistic.
Next is Downloaded (S2 Ep18)
As always, it would have been a blast to see it with you in a cool home theater! Haven't had this much fun in years with a TV show.

repeating the suggested watch list for Battlestar Galactica 2003-2008:

1. Miniseries (Parts 1 & 2)
2. Season 1 (13 Episodes)
3. Season 2 (20 Episodes)
4. The Resistance Webisodes (10 Mini Episodes)
5. Season 3 (20 Episodes)
6. Razor Flashbacks Webisodes ( 7 Episodes)
7. Razor (Movie)
8. Season 4.0 (10 Episodes)
9. The Face Of The Enemy (10 Webisodes)
10. Season 4.5 (11 Episodes)
11. * The Plan

* Don't Bother Unless You Must​

You rock brother!!!!!!!
Yo, do you know that I finished the show last week?
hahahahaha

This is the fifth time I’ve watched it

I did do some skipping. I have to find out where you’re at black market.
Download
I ended up at the end of the season two when Starbuck goes back down to blank and gets blank and brings blank back up to blank

I had to see them all settle on blank just to be blank blank blank

haha

there are 12 Cylon models, I’m number 6.
how far are you in the show my brother

 

[Wes Candela]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but when the original is brought into this with the term "cheesy" that is when I'm not going to withhold what I and many other fans of the original think about this version that forever will be known by the acronym GINO (Galactica In Name Only).

A lot of us were upset by the fact that this other version ever existed, and I will be honest, most of us wish it never did. When this show came on, it permanently derailed 25 years of hopes for just one thing we'd been waiting for ever since the last original series episode, "The Hand Of God" (No, "Galactica 1980" does not count. Let's leave that out of the discussion other than the fact that that is where Moore got the idea for humanoid Cylons from). That was a simple bit of *closure* to an interrupted storyline regarding characters we had come to care about and whose performances in how they brought them to life is the reason why Galactica endured in its popularity well beyond our childhood years. Contrary to what Ron Moore thought, it was *never* about daggits, 70s hair and special FX. It was about the people of this series as characters to relate to, who were part of a positive outlook of people working together toward a common goal in the face of tragedy and adversity. Yes, the show didn't live up to its full potential because of the pressures put on it by the censors at ABC (who basically neutered the Cylons as an effective threat when they were suddenly insisting on having no one die after we'd seen the tragedies of early episodes) but in terms of the *template* that existed at the time, there was nothing fundamentally unsound that necessitated such a dramatic overhaul into the dark, depressing nihilism of Ron Moore's version that utterly and completely stood the positive philosophy and positive depiction of faith and religion on its head. We simply wanted *closure* for the show we loved with the original cast returning one more time and I would remind people that Tom DeSanto was going to give us a continuation that got derailed because of 9/11 and then somehow the whole thing ended up in Moore's hands, and Moore decided he was going to remake Galactica in the image of those who hated the original series. For many of us, this was something we could not accept and we let our feelings be known. In response to this, Moore, David Eick and others then proceeded to not only trash the original series fanbase, they also trashed the original series with a lot of misinformation about it and openly encouraged critics to dump on the original when praising their show, with the crowning example coming when Harlan Ellison gushed about Moore taking the "worst show on TV and making it the best" (the fact that this meant Ellison was hypocritically throwing his standards about people taking other people's work and changing it to something the original author didn't intend for into the toilet, was due to his personal grudge against Glen Larson).

When I tried watching this show at the time it was on, I found that I couldn't get through an episode without shaking in absolute anger over seeing what had been done to a property I had enjoyed and which I might add has inspired me to be a fanfic author for the last thirty plus years. Today, I am able to be a little more detached in the sense that I don't react to an episode with anger, I only react with a guffaw at what I see. Part of this is because in 2020 some partial vindication for the original series fans came in the form of an audio drama, "Saga Of A Fugitive Fleet" that assembled almost the entire surviving original cast (Terry Carter, Anne Lockhart, Laurette Spang, Noah Hathaway, Sarah Rush, Jack Stauffer; combined with archival audio of Lorne Greene, Richard Hatch and John Colicos) and gave us four Galactica radio type stories but with the caveat that due to licensing issues, they could not use the name Galactica nor could the characters refer to each other by name (in short it was Galactica in everything but name). Finally hearing something more substantive than a five minute trailer helped erase some of the sting that had existed because this is the thing that drove most of the fan anger toward Moore's show. It was the idea that the last chance after 25 years of hopes for a true continuation/closure project had been slammed in our faces. This was something Trek fans didn't experience because the original Trek cast went as far as they could in movie projects and consequently the Trek spinoffs and reimaginings did not serve as an obstacle to anything involving the original. That was not the case with Moore. I can guarantee with 100% certainty that if we had been given closure to the original series first, say in the 1990s when all of the cast save Lorne Greene could have participated, and THEN, Ron Moore five years later comes up with this, the reaction would not have been as strong as it was. This is the thing I think most people have never fully realized when they look back on the animosities and bad feeling that developed.

So today, I don't feel the instinctive feelings of total hatred for Moore as I once did. But I still dislike it and do not consider it real Galactica or good television for that matter. For me, it's a nihilistic universe of dysfunctional characters, subverted morality and ultimately a series that doesn't know what it's doing since that whole matter of "The Cylons Have A Plan" turned out to be a big nothing.

These opinions are my own. I have made them only because if the original is going to have the term "cheesy" hung on it again, I think it is only fair that a perspective that does not accept that premise in relation to what I think is the really inferior show also be heard.

OK, so much respect of course
Always

This was the reboot they decided not to go for a continuation or a redo of the original series, but instead to create based off of the idea

no laws were broken. I was not a big fan of the first series, which is why I had to be begged to watch the miniseries.

but again, it’s a reboot a total reboot

And Richard Hatch was given a pretty big rule to play in the series

as a matter of fact, the theme song to the original, Battlestar is played during the finale

A bit of a tip of the hat

so I am hearing you

but I’m too engrossed in my love for the reboot

You have to think of them as two different shows based on an original idea

 

[Jack P]

I'm not going to continue a debate about the two shows, but I am going to say something about Richard Hatch. I have the highest respect for what he did in his performance as Apollo. What I don't respect though, is how he kept trying to act as if only he could head up any continuation project even though he never owned the rights to the property. This resulted in his series of novels that frankly were not very good Galactica stories because of their shocking disregard for basic points of continuity (it's so obvious that he didn't have his ghostwriter sit down and watch what unfolded, and Richard I doubt ever watched more than the truncated theatrical cut of the pilot as the years went by and went solely by his memory on everything else) that not even fanfic writers would overlook. And when there was *going* to be an actual continuation project headed up Tom DeSanto and Bryan Singer, what did Richard do? He got all upset that it wasn't going to be his trailer project that would be the vehicle for the show's return, and because the DeSanto script did not call for a big part for Apollo in the initial installment, he used his online newsletter (which is still active all these years later) to trash the DeSanto project as something that wasn't going to be true to the original series (and in the process he ended up misleading fans like me who at the time had NO idea that the DeSanto project was going to be an actual continuation of the original series set a generation later. For a long time the impression was that DeSanto was going to go the 'remake' route).

When I finally read a copy of the DeSanto script after the Moore thing came out, I was to say the least shocked. And I felt that Richard had engaged in an act of open deception in which he tried to discourage fan interest in the DeSanto project (ultimately derailed by 9/11 and then Bryan Singer's departure) simply because this wasn't "his" version of a continuation, and the fact that he wasn't going to be the man in charge with the meatiest acting role. In short, it wasn't about whether DeSanto was going to be true to the series, it was all about Richard Hatch's ego.

And that, in a nutshell is why Richard took the part in the Moore series. After first setting himself up as the new champion for defending the original series, Ron Moore rather shrewdly recognized that if Richard would get a meaty acting role, that would quiet his objections and at the same time cut the ground out from under the original series fans who were objecting to the show. Since I can't find a single case of Richard ever speaking out against the attacks on the original series by the likes of Ellison and company afterwards, I think again, the totality of the picture reveals that Richard only saw a revival as a means to serving the bigger ends of what was best for him. Not that I blame him for taking the part if it helped him to earn a living, which actors must do, but it makes the image of him as someone who was so devoted to the show that he tried to cultivate, ring very hollow with me.

 

[Wayne Klein]

I'm not going to continue a debate about the two shows, but I am going to say something about Richard Hatch. I have the highest respect for what he did in his performance as Apollo. What I don't respect though, is how he kept trying to act as if only he could head up any continuation project even though he never owned the rights to the property. This resulted in his series of novels that frankly were not very good Galactica stories because of their shocking disregard for basic points of continuity (it's so obvious that he didn't have his ghostwriter sit down and watch what unfolded, and Richard I doubt ever watched more than the truncated theatrical cut of the pilot as the years went by and went solely by his memory on everything else) that not even fanfic writers would overlook. And when there was *going* to be an actual continuation project headed up Tom DeSanto and Bryan Singer, what did Richard do? He got all upset that it wasn't going to be his trailer project that would be the vehicle for the show's return, and because the DeSanto script did not call for a big part for Apollo in the initial installment, he used his online newsletter (which is still active all these years later) to trash the DeSanto project as something that wasn't going to be true to the original series (and in the process he ended up misleading fans like me who at the time had NO idea that the DeSanto project was going to be an actual continuation of the original series set a generation later. For a long time the impression was that DeSanto was going to go the 'remake' route).

When I finally read a copy of the DeSanto script after the Moore thing came out, I was to say the least shocked. And I felt that Richard had engaged in an act of open deception in which he tried to discourage fan interest in the DeSanto project (ultimately derailed by 9/11 and then Bryan Singer's departure) simply because this wasn't "his" version of a continuation, and the fact that he wasn't going to be the man in charge with the meatiest acting role. In short, it wasn't about whether DeSanto was going to be true to the series, it was all about Richard Hatch's ego.

And that, in a nutshell is why Richard took the part in the Moore series. After first setting himself up as the new champion for defending the original series, Ron Moore rather shrewdly recognized that if Richard would get a meaty acting role, that would quiet his objections and at the same time cut the ground out from under the original series fans who were objecting to the show. Since I can't find a single case of Richard ever speaking out against the attacks on the original series by the likes of Ellison and company afterwards, I think again, the totality of the picture reveals that Richard only saw a revival as a means to serving the bigger ends of what was best for him. Not that I blame him for taking the part if it helped him to earn a living, which actors must do, but it makes the image of him as someone who was so devoted to the show that he tried to cultivate, ring very hollow with me.

I don’t think the strategy was to cut original series fans off at the knees at all. It was, however, about quieting Hatch with a good part. Hatch did a great job in the role so, regardless of what the motivation was, it turned out well for Hatch and Moore. I loved the reboot and I loved the original series (didn’t like the 1980 version- it was cheesy and badly written. The idea of continuing the series with them reaching Earth was a good concept but poorly executed).

Those fans who didn’t like the reboot weren’t going to be quieted by bringing Hatch into the fold.

I do think that Hatch, like Bill Mumy with his attempt to resurrect Lost in Space, was genuine. i also think Hatch wanted to run the show. Hatch, after his early reservations, seemed to warm to the show. Is it because he was being hypocritical? Perhaps but honestly, he did a great job in his role. As to the Singer reboot, I suspect Hatch just saw it as a competing project that would cut him out. I can understand wanting to be behind the project one has more control over. Hatch was just as human and prone to fault as anyone else.

I would point out that any reboot or continuation of a series needs to have some creative license. I personally think they did a great job with both series. Ellison’s criticism wasn’t a surprise. Heck, he was critical of Star Trek, too. If Larson had asked him to write for the series, he might have changed his mind. Ellison disliked Star Wars, too. He saw it as a Buck Rogers variation that stole from folks like Frank Herbert and other writers.

the bottom line is that BG the reboot didn’t eliminate the original series. It’s still there for fans to enjoy. I just don’t think that remaking the series or continuing exactly as it was in 1978 was ever in the cards. Times change, so does entertainment.

 

[Wes Candela]

I'm not going to continue a debate about the two shows, but I am going to say something about Richard Hatch. I have the highest respect for what he did in his performance as Apollo. What I don't respect though, is how he kept trying to act as if only he could head up any continuation project even though he never owned the rights to the property. This resulted in his series of novels that frankly were not very good Galactica stories because of their shocking disregard for basic points of continuity (it's so obvious that he didn't have his ghostwriter sit down and watch what unfolded, and Richard I doubt ever watched more than the truncated theatrical cut of the pilot as the years went by and went solely by his memory on everything else) that not even fanfic writers would overlook. And when there was *going* to be an actual continuation project headed up Tom DeSanto and Bryan Singer, what did Richard do? He got all upset that it wasn't going to be his trailer project that would be the vehicle for the show's return, and because the DeSanto script did not call for a big part for Apollo in the initial installment, he used his online newsletter (which is still active all these years later) to trash the DeSanto project as something that wasn't going to be true to the original series (and in the process he ended up misleading fans like me who at the time had NO idea that the DeSanto project was going to be an actual continuation of the original series set a generation later. For a long time the impression was that DeSanto was going to go the 'remake' route).

When I finally read a copy of the DeSanto script after the Moore thing came out, I was to say the least shocked. And I felt that Richard had engaged in an act of open deception in which he tried to discourage fan interest in the DeSanto project (ultimately derailed by 9/11 and then Bryan Singer's departure) simply because this wasn't "his" version of a continuation, and the fact that he wasn't going to be the man in charge with the meatiest acting role. In short, it wasn't about whether DeSanto was going to be true to the series, it was all about Richard Hatch's ego.

And that, in a nutshell is why Richard took the part in the Moore series. After first setting himself up as the new champion for defending the original series, Ron Moore rather shrewdly recognized that if Richard would get a meaty acting role, that would quiet his objections and at the same time cut the ground out from under the original series fans who were objecting to the show. Since I can't find a single case of Richard ever speaking out against the attacks on the original series by the likes of Ellison and company afterwards, I think again, the totality of the picture reveals that Richard only saw a revival as a means to serving the bigger ends of what was best for him. Not that I blame him for taking the part if it helped him to earn a living, which actors must do, but it makes the image of him as someone who was so devoted to the show that he tried to cultivate, ring very hollow with me.

Very very well said.
if you watch Richard Hatch closely in the reboot over the course of four seasons, he goes from defender and union organizer amongst the prisoners on the Battlestar to having a seat amongst the leaders to running against the president to becoming vice president


From being a bad guy to a good guy to a bad guy to a good guy

It’s obvious that he was being given time, but is not obvious why and to me at least it seemed like they couldn’t give him a role. He was happy with so they kept changing his role.

I always had this sneaking suspicion. He was behind that.

“I don’t want to be a bad guy I want to be a good person”

“, I want more of a major role”

His character arc didn’t just change

his characters personality kept changing.
this is all in the reboot if you ever have a chance to watch it I think it says a lot about him

 

[Jack P]

the bottom line is that BG the reboot didn’t eliminate the original series. It’s still there for fans to enjoy. I just don’t think that remaking the series or continuing exactly as it was in 1978 was ever in the cards. Times change, so does entertainment.

I think there are a couple of inaccurate premises here. Original series fans were not calling for the show to be resumed "exactly as it was in 1978". The hope was always for continuing an interrupted storyline 20 plus years later which of necessity of course would have meant introducing newer characters alongside the older ones, and it also meant we wanted to see that storyline continued without the oppressive restrictions ABC's censors placed on the original series. Galactica's template as it existed could easily lend itself to more mature storytelling without harming the integrity of the characters as they existed or the broader themes of the Cylons as a race that in the episode "War Of The Gods" is revealed to have been the Devil's own creation (the genius of capitalizing on the fact that Patrick Macnee was already providing the voice of the Imperious Leader and then having him play the Devil is one of the greatest pieces of improvised writing I have ever seen because that linkage between Count Iblis and the Imperious Leader was not in the original script, since they couldn't have foreseen Macnee would be cast in the part. Remove that element though and you lose the greatest subtext of the series as a whole).

And we can not minimize the fact that the DeSanto project, which *was* a continuation had been greenlit, sets had been built and the startup was planned until 9/11 derailed everything. That totally undermines the argument that a continuation of the original series universe was "never in the cards" and that it was a victim of "changing times." Ron Moore was the one who insisted on blowing up the template to suit his needs when the project was passed on to him. It was not a decree from Universal or anyone else, so let's not make the argument that continuing the original series universe was an idea whose time had passed (though the optimum time would have been the mid-1990s when John Colicos and even Lloyd Bridges could have still participated). Dirk Benedict and Herb Jefferson were already committed and Anne Lockhart was ready to go as well. These were facts I wasn't aware of in 2003 when the Moore show debuted, but when I learned of them the following year, let's just say that it made the whole thing even more upsetting at the time.

 

[Desslar]

I think there are a couple of inaccurate premises here. Original series fans were not calling for the show to be resumed "exactly as it was in 1978". The hope was always for continuing an interrupted storyline 20 plus years later which of necessity of course would have meant introducing newer characters alongside the older ones, and it also meant we wanted to see that storyline continued without the oppressive restrictions ABC's censors placed on the original series. Galactica's template as it existed could easily lend itself to more mature storytelling without harming the integrity of the characters as they existed or the broader themes of the Cylons as a race that in the episode "War Of The Gods" is revealed to have been the Devil's own creation (the genius of capitalizing on the fact that Patrick Macnee was already providing the voice of the Imperious Leader and then having him play the Devil is one of the greatest pieces of improvised writing I have ever seen because that linkage between Count Iblis and the Imperious Leader was not in the original script, since they couldn't have foreseen Macnee would be cast in the part. Remove that element though and you lose the greatest subtext of the series as a whole).

And we can not minimize the fact that the DeSanto project, which *was* a continuation had been greenlit, sets had been built and the startup was planned until 9/11 derailed everything. That totally undermines the argument that a continuation of the original series universe was "never in the cards" and that it was a victim of "changing times." Ron Moore was the one who insisted on blowing up the template to suit his needs when the project was passed on to him. It was not a decree from Universal or anyone else, so let's not make the argument that continuing the original series universe was an idea whose time had passed (though the optimum time would have been the mid-1990s when John Colicos and even Lloyd Bridges could have still participated). Dirk Benedict and Herb Jefferson were already committed and Anne Lockhart was ready to go as well. These were facts I wasn't aware of in 2003 when the Moore show debuted, but when I learned of them the following year, let's just say that it made the whole thing even more upsetting at the time.

Interesting, didn't realize planning for a series continuation got that far. I thought it was just Richard Hatch making a fan film.

I would think Benedict and Jefferson were too old to play leads in 2001. Maybe they would have been senior officers, taking over for Lorne Greene and Terry Carter.

 

[Wayne Klein]

I think there are a couple of inaccurate premises here. Original series fans were not calling for the show to be resumed "exactly as it was in 1978". The hope was always for continuing an interrupted storyline 20 plus years later which of necessity of course would have meant introducing newer characters alongside the older ones, and it also meant we wanted to see that storyline continued without the oppressive restrictions ABC's censors placed on the original series. Galactica's template as it existed could easily lend itself to more mature storytelling without harming the integrity of the characters as they existed or the broader themes of the Cylons as a race that in the episode "War Of The Gods" is revealed to have been the Devil's own creation (the genius of capitalizing on the fact that Patrick Macnee was already providing the voice of the Imperious Leader and then having him play the Devil is one of the greatest pieces of improvised writing I have ever seen because that linkage between Count Iblis and the Imperious Leader was not in the original script, since they couldn't have foreseen Macnee would be cast in the part. Remove that element though and you lose the greatest subtext of the series as a whole).

And we can not minimize the fact that the DeSanto project, which *was* a continuation had been greenlit, sets had been built and the startup was planned until 9/11 derailed everything. That totally undermines the argument that a continuation of the original series universe was "never in the cards" and that it was a victim of "changing times." Ron Moore was the one who insisted on blowing up the template to suit his needs when the project was passed on to him. It was not a decree from Universal or anyone else, so let's not make the argument that continuing the original series universe was an idea whose time had passed (though the optimum time would have been the mid-1990s when John Colicos and even Lloyd Bridges could have still participated). Dirk Benedict and Herb Jefferson were already committed and Anne Lockhart was ready to go as well. These were facts I wasn't aware of in 2003 when the Moore show debuted, but when I learned of them the following year, let's just say that it made the whole thing even more upsetting at the time.

I’m not assuming original fans were asking it to be rebooted. They did with “Galatica 1980”. I do think that getting Hatch on board was both a win-win in Moore’s and Hatch’s minds. As far as a continuation, I was referring to Moore’s version. At the same time, I don’t think that Moore was intent on creating something that both allowed him creative leeway with the concepts from the original series and created something that some fans of the original series might appreciate. This reminds me of the reaction from some fans to various Star Trek spin-off’s; the creators of those shows do try and show respect to the original series and want to provide fan pleasing service while at the same time creating something contemporary and vibrant that will also appeal to new audiences.

Regardless of the circumstances that “blew up “ the continuation, it just wasn’t in the cards after Moore was approached. I also don’t think it would have been as successful as it was on SyFy nor do I think SyFy would have greenlit the series if it had just been a continuation at that stage. Times change, shows get reinvented. To me (if you’ll pardon the hubris) this is no different than readapting a novel for film. When I tuned in to the new series, as an example, I looked at it as its own thing and gave it creative leeway.

This again reminds me of the whole Bill Mumy situation with the “Lost in Space“ continuation except, in BG’s situation, it wasn’t Larsen that stopped it but the interference of Hatch. I also don’t think that Hatch had that much power. I mean they continued on adjusted “Galatica 1980” without him as well. They could have carried on without him. They chose not to whether due to the fan base or whatever.

Regardless, one can like the original series for what it was and the Moore version which expanded on and explored the themes from the original series in creative, different ways.

Some of the best creative expansions have happened also on accident as well as being planned out. I personally think both series did a fine job of exploring those elements (though the less said about the final episode of Moore’s series the better. It was one of the most disappointment finales this side of “Lost” and was an example of how noT having a strong ending planned out that might have subplot trapdoors built in a la “Babylon 5” to account for changes in the series, could derail a finale).

I personally like both and see them as their own thing exploring similar but different situations.

 

[Jack P]

Interesting, didn't realize planning for a series continuation got that far. I thought it was just Richard Hatch making a fan film.

I would think Benedict and Jefferson were too old to play leads in 2001. Maybe they would have been senior officers, taking over for Lorne Greene and Terry Carter.

No, they wouldn't have been leads. Again, the primary cast would have been next generation type people in which the grown-up Boxey (renamed "Orin" according to the script; I think for clarity they would have been better advised to retain the "Troy" name from G80) is now the Commander. I have the script in pdf but it's too big to upload here.

And my point about Richard is that because this wasn't giving him a big role, he wasn't supporting it (nor was he on-board for it). And he was not honest with the fans that his lack of enthusiasm was due solely to the size of his part. This is what he said in his on-line newsletter in June 2001.

RichardHatch.com: Home of Richard Hatch Enterprises

They talk about honoring the original show, but everything I hear tells me that they have no real intention of following through on that promise other than in a token way, which is how the studios always try to appease the fans and at the same time take advantage of the marketing value of using a few characters from the original series.

Needless to say this was leaving EVERYONE, including myself convinced that what was being planned was a reboot, and not a continuation and by this point in the game that was not what was happening behind the scenes.