X-Men Digital VHS Review At DVDfile (1 Viewer)

[george kaplan]

Well, I've got enough of an open mind to admit that the evidence might someday prove dvhs durable enough for me to buy. But my cynicism is deep enough that it would require years of actual use with lots of reports of no degradation and no reports of dvhs-rot . In other words, it's highly likely that if I'm wrong and this turns out to be nondegradable, that hd-dvd or something else will exist by the time enough time has lapsed to convince me of it.

 

[Walter Kittel]

George,
Certainly one can look at it from that perspective. While you may be saving yourself the cost of replacing or losing valuable program content due to the instability of a tape media ( not a view that I share ) - there is another cost to consider. The missed opportunity of enjoying the best picture quality ( by a wide margin ) available in a pre-recorded format right now, while you wait for D-VHS to prove itself, or for the arrival of a pre-recorded optical HD media.
( I make that argument based on your assertion that you would be all over the format if it weren't tape based; which indicates you have some enthusiasm for pre-recorded HD content. )
I can't speak for you, but I'm not getting any younger. I'd rather enjoy what is available now, vs. waiting for the next big thing. Of course as always, to each their own.
- Walter.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I have yet to see D-VHS. I'll be going
out to LA in a few months to check it out
at one of the studios.

One of our Moderators owns a D-VHS deck and
will be doing D-VHS reviews on this forum, but
at this point, we think he may have a defective
player and this is the reason for the delay.

My opinion has always been against this D-VHS
format. I do understand that it is the only
format that can record and play Hi-Def, but
let's face it -- it's tape. Last week I spoke
to a well-known website owner who owns a deck
and even he said that he detected tape damage
in the picture just after a few plays.

I don't think this format will ever catch on
for its intended purpose. If the price comes
down low enough, perhaps people will buy it as
a VHS deck replacement. I can't see a large sect
of the population using these decks to record
Hi-Def, as that technology only appeals to a
small percentage of the consumer market right now.

We are very close to hi-def DVD, and though it
won't record hi-def right off the bat, people
are going to opt to buy the movies on disc rather
than tape.

I am sure that the picture quality is stunning,
and really, I am not as against this format as
I was a few months ago. Still, you must admit,
DVD has spoiled all of us. I will never buy into
a format that is subjected to wear and tear. If
that certain website owner already noticed wear
artifacts on his review tapes this early, you
can bet there is more to come.

I am not trying to bring down this thread. I think
that D-VHS has a very worthwhile purpose. My
feelings are, however, it will never become widely
accepted by the general consumer -- especially
with DVD recordable standalone decks coming down
in price every year.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Is anyone buying a movie on DVD thinking it's going to be the last time they ever have to buy that movie? I think not.

No one ever *has* to buy a movie on a particular format.
And Ron, the point that others have made (which is a good one) is that D-VHS has a bandwidth/data-rate which allows for minimal compression of the video signal while providing some excellent audio (like full bit-rate DTS). The worry with HD-DVD is that it will be another bit-starved format like DVD forcing you to choose between video quality, audio quality, and extras just like we have now with SD-DVD. I hope that D-VHS does well enought to scare the developers of HD-DVD into providing us with a high-quality HD-DVD format that really does justice to the concept and not some artifact-ridden/over filtered/over-compressed-audio optical disc that's technically "HD" but that doesn't live up to the HD-format's potential.
Those of you who give a darn please check the link in my signature about the HD-DVD proposal/peition and sign it.

 

[Gruson]

DVHS players are now around $1200....very tempting for me.

Hell, I payed almost $600 to have a progressive DVD player back in 2000. DVHS is not that much more $$ for the quality you get.

I don't mind replacing all of my titles with DVHS or with HDDVD when it comes out. I have been waiting long enough for something that is better quality than DVD....it's about time!

 

[JonZ]

Regarding wear and tear, Ive had a few DVD titles crap out on me after a while,and I was forced to rebuy them. Just a few,but it does happen.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

If that certain website owner already noticed wear
artifacts on his review tapes this early, you
can bet there is more to come.

Well, I would put a lot more credence into that statement if the "source" was identified!

That statement goes against nearly everything that I have heard from people who actually own and use the D-Theater system. This includes Gary Reber and the people at Widescreen Review, who used the JVC D-VHS player continuously over their D-Theater Movie Festival weekend without a single glitch.

 

[Michael Moulton]

The degradation issue is something I haven't seen a real answer to yet.

So, according to DVD File, the X-Men DVHS looks a lot better than the DVD right now. Ok, but what happens after it's been watched 30 times?

What happens when my DVHS player eats the tape? I've yet to see a disc player eat a CD or DVD.

And, with all the talk about limited releases (like ET), what happens when my shiny new DVHS ET (hypothetically, since AFAIK it hasn't been announced) wears out, and the studio has decided I can't buy it anymore?

Finally, how well does DVHS handle scans forward and backward, and pauses? Do they look crystal clear like they do on DVD? For the "home theater" experience this isn't that critical (since it's about watching the movie, not pausing it or skipping parts of it), it is a consideration.

 

[Dave Anderson]

If that certain website owner already noticed wear
artifacts on his review tapes this early, you
can bet there is more to come.

That goes against all the comments made over on the AVS Forum from numerous people who already own the decks. No one has seen "wear artifacts" or dropouts of any sort. Even a regular VHS tape doesn't wear after a few viewings, so I'd chalk this up to a defective tape. Of course, there's also the possibility of mishandling the tape - that could cause problems with it as well.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

it will never become widely accepted by the general consumer

Good. The worst thing that can ever happen to an enthusiast format is for it to become wide accepted. That's why Disney is starting to increase pan-and-scan-only output.

If we are lucky, all the HD formats will stay a niche.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

D-VHS:

No full bitrate DTS (5.1 24/96, or ES Discrete 6.1 encoding depending on the source) support and no OAR (hey, it can happen) = NO SALE.

They have the space for better than Dolby sound, they had best start using it.

Dan

 

[Jay Sylvester]

The JVC 30000 deck doesn't support DTS through its optical output, only DD. There are rumors of a firmware upgrade to make current decks compatible with DTS.

Besides, full bitrate DD mixed in a theater-like way (meaning no near-field mixing) is damn nice. Check out any decent LD with a DD track for an example. I'm more impressed with DD on LD than with DTS on DVD. If they mix the soundtracks on D-VHS like they did on LD, it'll be heaven.

 

[Brian-W]

The JVC 30000 deck doesn't support DTS through its optical output, only DD. There are rumors of a firmware upgrade to make current decks compatible with DTS.

There are no rumors. It (DTS) is not coming anytime soon if ever.

At the WSR event, I asked about this to the JVC V.P from Japan, and he said while DTS and JVC had initial discussions, nothing is planned now or in the future.

While that can change (and probably will), I wouldn't sit around holding your breath for a DTS version.

On a side note in regards to wear on tape and D-VHS, I've made some recordings on S-VHS tape of HD material, and shown it in excess of the hypothetical 30 times, and narry a drop out or sign of wear.

 

[Damin J Toell]

The worst thing that can ever happen to an enthusiast format is for it to become wide accepted.

Right on. It's much better for a format to not get accepted so that prices can stay high, software can be very difficult to obtain, studios can barely support it, and hardware manufacturers can quickly stop making new players. That's an enthusiast's dream! :rolleyes
DJ

 

[Dave Anderson]

Right on. It's much better for a format to not get accepted so that prices can stay high, software can be very difficult to obtain, studios can barely support it, and hardware manufacturers can quickly stop making new players. That's an enthusiast's dream!

I agree with his original statement. I don't want D-VHS going mainstream. Laserdisc never went mainstream. Guess what? Laserdisc had studio support (through Image and Pioneer, though Columbia did their own) and new players were manufactured up until 2002 (not bad for a niche format).

Going mainstream is OVERALL a bad thing for any video format. Sure, mainstream helps get more titles out there. That is no doubt the reason why DVD is start to see some many TV series and what not. But overall I still say it's a bad thing. Just look at the whole P&S issue. We've lost that war big time. It's only going to get worse.

I'll take a niche format any day. If it means fewer releases that are higher quality, then so be it.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Besides, full bitrate DD mixed in a theater-like way (meaning no near-field mixing) is damn nice. Check out any decent LD with a DD track for an example. I'm more impressed with DD on LD than with DTS on DVD. If they mix the soundtracks on D-VHS like they did on LD, it'll be heaven.

Of course, the type of sound mix they use is not a "format" issue...more of a political one. I think that Laserdisc got the "theatrical" mixes that it got bcs no one bothered to remix anything (not a purist desire on the dics producers to use a theatrical mix). However, most of the titles appearing on D-VHS are already on DVD and therefore have "home theater" sound mixes already created. Chances are good that they'll just recycle these home-oriented 5.1 mixes.

If they don't and someone out there figures out that we prefer the sound of the theatrical mixes to the "home" versions and does in fact give us theatrical-sound mixes on D-VHS, I really wish they'd apply that same philosophy to DVD sound. Why not???

-dave

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Quote:

Yeah, laserdisc players were only made for about 23 years. It was so fast that if you blinked you would have missed it. :rolleyes

 

[Damin J Toell]

Yeah, laserdisc players were only made for about 23 years. It was so fast that if you blinked you would have missed it.

And laserdisc was the only niche format in history, right?
With DVD, player prices have plummetted, software availability has skyrocketed, and release quality has been ever-increasing. And yet some people are never happy unless they can think of themselves as amongst the elite... :rolleyes
What good does it do for anyone to keep a format small in scope? DVD has had a much higher percentage of OAR releases than LD ever did. All one gets out of keeping a format in a niche is the ability to wear a special badge of honor. I prefer watching films to wearing badges.
DJ

 

[Sean Patrick]

i am curious how much of a price drop is expected in the fall with the new models.

my hd reveiver is built into my tv and there are no outputs (it's the rca 38" with the dtc100 built in)....so i'd just be using these as a playback deck and would want a very scaled back model. and i couldn't pay more than $500...i'd be willing to pay more for HD-DVD because of the added benefots of disc over tape (scene access, extras, longevity etc). not saying i'm not excited about HD-VHS, but since i can't output to the deck i naturally can't shell out $1000 right now.

the price of the tv was too good to pass up, but i didn't know recording HD was right on our doorstep!! i thought it was years away.

 

[Dave_P.]

With DVD, player prices have plummetted, software availability has skyrocketed, and release quality has been ever-increasing. And yet some people are never happy unless they can think of themselves as amongst the elite...

Hmmmm....there also seems to be quite an an influx of Pan & Scan only DVD titles coming to market in the past year. Coincidence with DVD's "mainstream" acceptance? I don't think so. Keep me in the niche mentality. I never had problems getting my LBX laserdiscs weekly from Ken Crane's (at 30% off) or my local Suncoast or Tower Video.