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X-Men Digital VHS Review At DVDfile (1 Viewer)

Sean Bryan

Sean Bryan
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I find it funny that in almost all threads where the "cons" of D-VHS are being pointed out someone lists "you need to have an HDTV to view it". Well, duh!!
That's funny. Then I guess you could say that a "con" of any HDTV material in general is that you need to view it on a high definition monitor. Stupid HDTV, I can't even view it on an old black and white TV if I want to! ;) As if the need for a HD-monitor is unique to D-VHS.
 

Steve_Tk

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Why is HD VHS even being worked on by the techies? I thought we were over the whole Tape format. You would think that all the techies would be spending all their time on HD DVD. Why did a VHS format even go on the drawing board, and then even made into reality? Don't they know this will go obsolete with the release of HD DVD just like how a lot of places are not even going to carry old VHS anymore.....

It seems like a lot of man hours and effort is being placed into the wrong format (VHS) that has been taken over by DVD and is guaranteed to do the same in the future..

On a happier note, I am very glad that HD theater for in home use is in production and I very much look forward to DVHS's successor, HD DVD!

EDITED thanks for grammar mistake.
 

frank manrique

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Sep 15, 1999
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David Boulet,
If you are interested reading about direct DVD and D-VHS tape (D-Theater) video transfers vs. 35mm film comparisons then you might like to read my "review" of T-2 and soon to be posted X-Men and U-571 at AV Science's HD Recorders or Laserdisc & DVD Forums. Cheers... :)
-THTS
 

Lou Sytsma

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My apologies for the inadvertent thread fart. Since the format is new I couldn't help to express my opinion.

In the future I will restrict my comments to those threads that are about the D-VHS format specifically. In these types of review threads I will keep my comments to the topic at hand.
 

Jay Sylvester

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Jan 27, 2002
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Lou,

I didn't think your comments were meant to be incendiary. You didn't bash the format. Nothing to apologize for.
 

Dave Anderson

Second Unit
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Heh heh. I LOVE reading the posts from people listing all the reasons they aren't buying D-VHS. It seems they are trying to convince themselves rather than us. :) I said it before and I'll say it again, I was the same way back when DVD started stepping on laserdisc's turf. The problem is, they naysayers are acting like DVD is going to become obsolete because of D-VHS. That's not the case at all. I still have a rather large laserdisc collection, though it mostsly consists of titles that haven't been released to 16x9 DVD. D-VHS lesson:
1) DVD, D-VHS, and even laserdisc can all co-exist in the same home theater (I'm hoping to add D-VHS this fall when newer and cheaper models are released)
2) Your DVD collection is not going to become obsolete. The way I see it, all D-VHS releases are basically going to blow away their DVD counterparts in regards to video quality. DVD will still be good for extras, however. But there is a new king of the hill in regards to quality. If you have no interest in HD quality, then it's probably best not to participate in this thread (or mention HD-DVD for that matter).
3) Any HD format is going to be a niche format for many years to come. Whether it's HD-VHS or HD-DVD, or Muse laserdiscs. Is that just common knowledge considering that HD TVs themselves are a niche market? Obviously the content for them will be a niche market as well.
PEACE!
 

Paul_D

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All this D-Theater stuff makes me very nervous. I keep glancing over at my 2 DVD shleves while reading this and picturing an imaginary sign hanging over them simple reading "Obsolete Collection. Nothing to see here." :frowning:
 

Dan Brecher

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Paul,
Given that UK/Europe went for all that DVB rubbish and has no intention of adopting HDTV, a UK DVD owners collection will not be made obsolete since it's bloody unlikely D-VHS or HD-DVD will ever hit here since none of our TVs can take the signal.
When it finally comes to the US, go front projection and get importing! :D You'll never go to the cinema again. When I go the route of CRT projection next year, if I buy into importing D-VHS, tickets will be charged at £5.50. :)
Dan
 

Julian Lalor

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D-VHS is not meant to be a threat to DVD in the way DVD was a threat to Laserdisc. FOX stated this when it announced its commitment to the format - they noted that they would never have bought into D-VHS if it meant it would eat into its DVD revenue. This is a niche product that will end up much like the Laserdisc market - made up of heavy duty film buffs (although more likely in this instance to be videophiles as most films released on D-VHS will be restricted to those made over the last 10 years which may not appeal to the film buff who bought into Laserdisc). Its inability to replicate many of the extras from DVDs and the fact that it is tape based (consumers appear won over by the disc format in the similar manner they were with CDs) will restrict its distribution and appeal.

My main concern about buying into this format is: will all studios commit to D-VHS? It's all a bit Catch-22. If I buy in now, will enough follow me to give the Studios comfort that the format is commercially viable? Or, if we all wait to see what happens, will the Studios take that as a lack of interest and refuse to commit or, in the case of the few who have committed, drop their commitment? Perhaps the Studios can do what they did for Laserdisc and licence out their product to the likes of Pioneer and Image.
 

george kaplan

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As someone who came out very early and stated strong opposition to dvhs, I've said my piece and tried not to join in threads like this and restate it. But when I see comments like the following I have to respond:

As a laserdisc owner I was never threatened by dvd, nor did I fail to embrace it. But to me, the 'threat' from dvhs is more akin to divx.

Let me explain.

I was a very strong opponent of divx. But my reasons were that I didn't want to have to pay more than once to own a movie, and I felt that studios would have divx exclusives that would prevent me from owning it on open dvd.

Now, dvhs is a tape based format, which means that the films will eventually deteriorate and you will have to rebuy it. If not for that, I'd be all over it. This is certainly not having to repurchase it as often as divx (nowhere near), but given how much I watch movies, I'd definitely have to repurchase (it was buying certain vhs tapes 2 or even 3 times that got me into laser disc in the first place).

So, how strong is the threat of dvhs exclusives? I don't know, and at this point probably not very, but if it does take off, God knows, there'll be that one film that I really want that is only available on deteriorating dvhs and not dvd.

For the record, I have a high-def monitor and would GLADLY pay $2000 for a HDVD deck. But I wouldn't spend 2 cents for a DVHS one.
 

JeffreyMercado

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Feb 1, 2002
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I went to Harveys electronics and was very impressed at what I saw. It was a demo disk of the US sights and China. Visually stunning, but I still saw some ringing here and there. Maybe they need a JVC with some DCDI processing. Anyway it was the same story, no software. How great would this sell if you could see a comparison between Xmen 480 and Xmen 1080. If bestbuy was roaring at us every week in circular about a new DVHS title for us to check out. Whoever decided on this weak marketing should look for another job. Flood the market with demos so we are dying to purchase. So we feel we can't live without it.
If DVHS fails it's because of JVC.
 

Walter Kittel

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George,

If some of the posts, and quoted posts on AV Science are correct in regards to the use of digital error correction on D-VHS, then I would say that your fears are somewhat unfounded. Quoting Gave Nell from the Laserdisc & DVD Forum ( as quoted by Frank J Manrique over at AVS )... ( yes this is a quote of a quote. ) -

------------------

Fortunately, because it is digital, degradation is less of an issue (but one nevertheless).

I've been working a lot with DV recently, and I am continually impressed by a $5 tape's ability to be used and reused intensely over a short period of time. This of course is not how we would use movies on digital tape, but I'd like to establish that at least modern digital tape stands up to lots of rewinds and re-records.

Clearly your concern is more long term. That the individual magnetic domains on the tape will get weak and perhaps change polarity or whatever over time so that bits will be read incorrectly by the deck.

I couldn't find a detailed DVHS recording spec, but from JVC's site you can see that while the main data rate is 28mbps the recorded data rate is 38mbps! Again, I do not claim to know the details, but I'll instead draw on my theoretical knowledge of digital communication and signaling.

The bulk of that extra 10mbps being recorded onto the tape is going to be error correction (some of course will be "internal" data so that the machine knows what it's reading). RS (reed-solomon) codes are used for error correction. RS codes are really neat; to grossly simplify (I was going to attempt an explanation, but I don't think I'm capable of simplifying in a clear manner) you take x bits and store them in x+y bits in such a way that the data can be reconstructed exactly as long as fewer than z bits are corrupted. I do't know what x, y, and z are in the D-VHS case, but it seems like a hell of a lot of space is allocated to error correction (y is maybe 0.3 * x?) so z is going to be pretty large as well.

RS codes also have the property that they are useful in situations where errors are more bursty than random, which seems like the case would be with magnetic tape (a small section of tape becomes damaged vs. well distributed individual bit errors, though RS codes are still extremely effective in this arena as well).

Bottom line: encoding 28Mbps into 38Mbps with RS codes means that the data can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

By the time the tape is damaged, you've already copied it over to a new format or bought the same film in a new format."

---------------

I honestly do not know how reliable this information might be, but short of the transport completely mangling a tape, I seriously doubt that the tape will degrade to the point of being noticeably inferior to its pristine state. That's my ( admittedly uncertain ) belief on the matter.

- Walter.
 

Dave Anderson

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Apr 8, 1999
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See, with VHS I could buy into the whole deterioration bit (I used it myself). But with VHS, there was a technicaly superior alternative the whole time - laserdisc. So deterioration was just ANOTHER reason, besides the fact that a superior format was already out there (laserdisc). That isn't the case with D-VHS; DVD is not superior.

I'm surprised to see how many people will simply dismiss D-VHS by using the deterioration excuse.

How many viewings is it going to take for D-VHS to deteriorate? Or is it more of a shelf life issue? Or perhaps it's a combination of both?

If D-VHS is going to deteriorate after a few dozen viewings, then I'll gladly buy another copy when that time comes. For me, that would probably be about 5-10 years depending on the movie. But the hope is that HD-DVD will come along by then and that it will be superior. Only time will tell...

Is anyone buying a movie on DVD thinking it's going to be the last time they ever have to buy that movie? I think not.

Is anyone buying a movie on D-VHS thinking it's going to be the last time they ever have to buy that movie? I think not (I hope not).

Many of you jumped from VHS to DVD, skipping over laserdisc. I couldn't wait for DVD, so I went with laserdisc. And don't give me any sort of time comparisons, because no one has a definitive date on HD-DVD.

I'm not going to wait around for HD-DVD. My HD set is here now and I'm ready to use it to its fullest potential. Will I be upset or surprised when I have to dump my D-VHS collection and move onto the next format? Hell no.
 

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