Which to get: Akai CFT2790, Samsung TXL2791F, or Toshiba 27A41 (1 Viewer)

[Jim_C]

>>FYI to all interested: my set is freaking out a bit. I get a semi-rhythmic "flashing" on the screen, and white text sort of shimmers in a variety of colors. The techs and I have determined there is probably some hardware problem inside the set and I'm swapping it next week when they get a new shipment in. Tweeter claims several Samsung sets have a similar problem but I don't believe it based on all the feedback in this and other forums.

I'll inform as things progress. I still like the set.

 

[ClemH]

I have the Akai version, from Sam's. I am getting annoyed with the auto black adjust, or auto contrast adjust, or what ever you call what is going on. Has anyone noticed this, or found a way to disable it? I cannot use the contrast or brightness test patterns on Avia because of this, and sometimes I see it 'adjust' while I'm watching a movie. In the contrast test screen I cannot get the white bar to bloom, and in the brightness test screen I cannot get 2 black bars to stay on the screen--I can get them to show up while I sweep the brightness up and down, but they fade out by themselves.

Also the red push is a problem too. I have a hunch that it is controlled by ACCR, but that value won't change. I think this because I can change the 'push' of all the colors evenly with ACC-REF, and ACCR is set to 21 which is about how much extra red I have on the color decoder test pattern.

Any thoughts, experiences?

Thanks.

 

[Joel Ostrow]

Clem:

What exactly is this auto adjust of which you speak? Can you describe what happens? I'm wondering if this is the "flash" sensation I see periodically? Anyway, if you can describe what you mean in more detail I know I would find it helpful and perhaps so would others.

Are you making your adjustments in the service menu? Perhaps you should try the custom setting in the regular menu and use the contrast, brightness and color settings there. Then you are not adjusting the "standard" setting which might be part of the problem?

I had no problem setting contrast or brightness with the DVD. Brightness was a snap to set, and I've already described my experience with contrast. As for red push, turning down the color setting in the regular menu should take care of red push, at least nobody has reported a failure to get a "good enough" fix.

 

[ClemH]

Joel:

Occasionally when I'm watching a movie I notice the contrast change by itself (it's very quick, not slow or smooth). It doesn't seem to involve colors, just black or white level (not really sure which).

I don't have any movies or anything so I can't give any scene references.

I think my inability to view black bars on the Avia brightness test pattern is caused by the same thing (whatever the 'thing' may be).

I'm not making changes in the service menu, I only started poking through it to see about color decoder adjustments (if they exist). I made all calibration adjustments in the 'custom' setting on the regular user menu.

As far as the red push goes, turning down the overall color saturation is not going to do it for me. I'm otherwise satisfied with the set, but if I can't get the colors right then I'll probably bring it back.

Thanks

 

[Joel Ostrow]

What Clem describes is the "flash" that I see. On my set, Clem, I notice it when watching certain programs. For example, when watching ER last night, the set would sort of go darker, then about 20 seconds later brighten, and then go back a bit later -- back and forth. Like you said, very quick -- I call it a flash (or the opposite if darkening).

Noone else seems to have seen this. I'll update when my new set comes next week or shortly thereafter.

 

[Jim_C]

This intermittent 'flashing' happens to me as well. I figure that it's some sort of 'auto-adjust' but I can't figure out how to turn it off. I know that the Fine Tuning setting automatically changes for different stations. When I first switch to a station the set will brighten or darken for a moment and then settle down. I've gone in to the check the Fine Tuning setting for each station and it's always different. I think that the set is sensing the signal and adjusting accordingly. I don't think that this is happening on DVD playback. I'll have to check. I'd love to know how to turn this feature off.

 

[Joel Ostrow]

Fine tuning is off on mine. I have DirecTV satellite, and watch through S-Video. Fine Tuning is off but flashing still happens. So I doubt it is that. I do know it doesn't happen on all channels (some networks not others, some satellite channels not others, some movie channels not ohters). No DVD here, can't tell on VCR because quality of picture is so much worse.

 

[Joel Ostrow]

Oh yeah, it happens to me not only when I first go to a channel. If it happens on a channel, it continues intermittently and indefinitely.

This, oddly, isn't enough for me to abandon the set. If the other problem isn't present on the new one, I can live with this.

My guess is Clem is right -- it is auto adjusting black. I notice when a "scene" arrives with a different level of brightness, the "flash" happens. But what exactly does this and how to turn it off I have no idea and sadly, the manual gives no indication.

One day I may venture the (I'm guessing) long hold time for a call to Samsung to see if they have any info. But if anyone does that before me, please post your results. Or, if anyone has a tech out for any reason for the set and notices this problem, see if you can get an answer as will I... my guess is few techs know these sets, so it may take some probing.

 

[Joel Ostrow]

Several people on various forums have asked for the original service menu values. Incredibly, the values in the manual do not correspond. Here are mine. I do not give my adjustments b/c of the geometry problems I've had. When I get the new set (delayed for 2 weeks by Tweeter's lack of stock) if anything is different I'll post.

DEFLECTION

ITEM MANUAL VALUE SET VALUE

H BOW 0 0

H ANGLE 0 10

H DSCC 1 3

V SHIFT -40 -20

V AMP 5 9

V SLOPE -2 -7

V SC -7 -9

H EW 64 -12

H TRAPEZIUM -20 -40

H PARABOLA -13 8

H SYMMETRY 13 13

H CORNER 15 -10

H SHIFT 4 -17

PIP CONTRAST 15 15

PIP TINT 0 0

PIP PAL V POS 12 12

PIP NTSC V POS 10 10

PIP H POS 15 15

VIDEO ADJUST 1

RED CUT OFF 127 127

GREEN CUT OFF 127 125

BLUE CUT OFF 127 115

RED DRIVE 127 145

GREEN DRIVE 127 127

BLUE DRIVE 127 172

SUB BRIGHT 110 125

SUB CONTRAST 52 45

SUB COLOR 27 50

SUB TINT 30 40

BCL THRESHOLD 62 65

BCLGAIN 8 8

BCL TIME 13 6

DVD SUBTINT 70

N YC DELAY 0 3

VIDEO ADJUST 2

B STRETCH-BTHR 50 50

B DTRETCH-BTLT 8 8

B STRTCH-BAM 4 4

CORING 31 31

NTSC COMB FILTER 1 2

RGB BRIGHT 0 0

RG B CONTRAST 0 0

EHT TIME 0 0

EHT COMPRESSION 60 60

DTI CORING

DTI GAIN 1

DTI BAND 1

EHT OFFSET 0 0

EHT HORIZONTAL 0 0

VIDEO ADJUST 3

PEAK 255 255

SOFT LIMIT SLOPE B 4 5

HARD LIMIT 255 180

MODULATION ON/OFF 0 0

A TILT POINT 0 0

B TILT P;OINT 0 114

GAIN 1 31

DELAY 1 3

PEAK VIDEO REF 0

PEAK VIDEO GAIN 0

LIMIT VALUE 127

VELOCITY DELAY 7

VELOCITY CORING 2

ACC-REF 20 20

ACCR 21 21

OPTION

SYSTEM CT(EN-SP-FR)

ACS ON

SOUND STEREO

CRT 4:3

AV MODE 2RCA+S+D

AUDIO MUTE ON

X-RAY ON

VIDEO MUTE OFF

TILT CONTROL ON

GAME OFF

LNA OFF

PIP OFF

VCHIP ON

BLUE SCREEN OFF

AKB ON

AUTO POWER ON OFF

HOTEL OFF

OTHERS

VSU 108 100

VSU2 0

H QEW 0 0

H ZOOM PARABOLA 8 12

H 16:9 PARABOLA -10 -19

DVD TINT 0 0

PAL V SHIFT -31

PAL H SHIFT -12

MELODY VOLUME 5 7

PIP BRIGHT 3

PIP COLOR 7

AUTO LOCK VDP Y (NOT IN MANUAL) OFF

B2 VERSION NOT IN MANUAL ON

NR OFF VALUE NOT IN MANUAL 0

PHILIPS AV MULTI NOT IN MANUAL OFF

VDP VERSION 4

I'm not putting anything here on g2 adjust -- see my comments elsewhere.

If this helps anyone to do anything, please post!!!

 

[Joel Ostrow]

Drat. The formatting didn't work. Well for each value the first number (if there are two) is the one the manual lists as the initial value, and the second is the one that was in fact the initial value on my set. I did not put in any of my own adjustments.

If there is only one value, that means the manual had initial value blank.

Sorry if this turned out hard to read.

 

[Adam Niemeyer]

I've been seriously looking at the wega but then after doing some searching and finding this forum I went and looked at the Samsung. I noticed that the Samsung's picture seems pretty red, is this easily fixed? I tried messing with the controls and nothing seemed to work. I also was wondering on your opinions about the Sharp 27R-FS1. The picture seemed better than the wega and the Samsung... This will be my first "big" purchase so I wanna get the best bang for my buck...any info is appreciated

 

[Dave Bennett]

I was able to reduce red push on my Samsung TXL2791F pretty well just by reducing the color to about 1/3 and putting the tint further to the green side. It still pushes red a bit but it's not overly noticable. Overall I'm still very happy with this set about a month later. A great set for the money.

 

[Scott H]

First, guys please do update us on the apparent 'auto black adjust' issues you had.

Second, and this is a sincere question... If the Samsung and the Akai are the same, and the Akai is $100 less, why didn't you buy it?

 

[Evan Hartnett]

Scott - I think the main difference between the Samsung and the Akai is the warranty. Samsung has 12 months (15 if you register online) in home service on any TV 26" and up while the Akai has (I think) 90 days parts and labor.

Adam - I agree with Dave, I managed to get the red push down just through basic calibration. Out of the box it sucks but it can be fixed.

Everybody else - Make sure you write down your values in the service menu before doing anything, I'm not sure if the ones in Joel's list are the same for everyone. The values in the service manual don't match his set and his original values don't match my set, for example my V-shift was at -33 and my H-shift was at -23 before adjustment.

 

[Joel Ostrow]

EVAN IS RIGHT!!! Write down your own values. Don't know why they differ, but they do. They must calibrate these individually at the factory (and still come up with those lousy settings!!)

As for "auto black adjust" -- I still have no idea what this is and only one or two others seem to experience or notice it. Sorry I can't offer any information on it ... the manual is silent and I don't see any obvious item in the Service Menu that would relate to this (though I suspect there is something there).

I adjusted red to the Avia ideal using the regular menu color and tint adjust. Everyone else reports ease in getting the red to a satisfactory level. My guess is "red drive" in the service menu would further tone it down.

As for Akai vs. Samsung: I'd rather buy from Tweeter, that has trained service techs who come to the house to fix the set, and (!) who will deliver the blasted thing, than buy from Sam's, where I am not a member anyway, would have to get it upstairs myself, and would not be able to get someone to come here were there a problem with the set, and if you read about my experiences with Panasonics and Sony's, you'll see I had every reason to expect the need for service, and I have.

If anyone is awaiting word on the results of my swap, keep waiting. Tweeter is out of Samsungs in my area until at least March 22 ... it may be April before I get a replacement. BTW I am not replacing because of the flicker ... there is some other indescribably picutre stability problem that arose a couple weeks ago as I reported above. When I get the new one I'll inform when all is ok, which I expect it will be.

 

[ClemH]

I seemed to have gotten rid of the "flicker" by setting all three black stretch values to zero(service menu under video adjust2). The only test case that I've discovered is to wait for the credits of American Pie 2--there was definite "flicker" between credits, until it starts to scroll (it stays dark black at that point). I had to re-adjust the brightness after I set the values to 0.

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[Joel Ostrow]

Do you adjust brightness up or down after? Did you adjust subbrightness in the service menu, or just the regular?

Thanks for this information.

Daring!!

 

[ClemH]

I adjusted the brightness down until black looked like black again. I will probably tweak the contrast and brightness some more later since they shouldn't be tainted this time around. I did it in the service menu since I was already there. I'm still not happy with the reds. Anyone?

 

[ClemH]

I just built an inline red push attenuator (component input) and the picture is right on. It was only an experiment in my case because I'm only interested in using S-video inputs... Too bad. Anyway, now that I've seen what the picture is supposed to look like there will be no compromise I've got about another week before it goes back. I'm checking out the eeprom dump...maybe something's in there...

 

[Joel Ostrow]

I adjusted those three values and the flicker/flashing problem is indeed gone. The contrast and brightness definitely require recalibrating, but after that the problem seems largely solved.

I say seems because I still the problem with white text "shimmering" -- only way to describe it.

But Clem's solution to the flicker/flash worked.