Which to get: Akai CFT2790, Samsung TXL2791F, or Toshiba 27A41

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ten_Smith, Jan 17, 2002.

  1. Ten_Smith

    Ten_Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    I was planning on getting a Toshiba 27A41, but a gentlemen has found what appears to be a great deal on an Akai CFT2790 ($379 for 27" flat screen w/ component in and squeeze trick). This TV appears to be a clone of the Samsung TXL2791F. I am also interested in hearing comments on the Samsung.
    Click here to see the original thread on the
    Akai CFT2790.
     
  2. Evan Hartnett

    Evan Hartnett Stunt Coordinator

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    I bought the Samsung TXL2791F a couple weeks ago and so far I love it. The picture is great (after video essentials), it has component inputs, the sound (even though I don't use it) is good and I got a great deal on it (Best Buy employees aren't always the brightest people in the world [​IMG]). The only problem I have so far is that there is only one adjustable mode for the settings and I've heard that the settings through component inputs would be different if I use another input (S video or composite). Also, if you do decide to get this TV make sure you have room for it, it's huge for a 27".
     
  3. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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    I just got a Toshiba 27A41. It's comparatively small for a 27", has composite, component, and S-VIDEO imputs. The sound is merely average, but I run everything through my audio setup anyway, so that doesn't matter. It supposedly does the raster squeeze if you can get into the service menu (I haven't tried yet.) The picture quality is absolutely outstanding, however. Out of the box, it was decent, and after using the optimode test on the TPM disc, it's even better. I'd recommend it.
     
  4. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    Well, I just got the Samsung, and you know what? I can't see why anyone would buy the Sony. With Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-up one discovers the following on the Samsung:

    1) Horizontal lines are straight

    2) Vertical lines are straight

    3) Virtually no convergence problem

    4) No pink bars anywhere on the screen

    5) Horrific factory pre-sets that, when adjusted, produce a picture of indistinguishable quality from the Sony

    6) Superior sound

    7) A service menu that appears far, far more versital than Sony's, although I have no idea what some of the items are (Service Manual on the way)

    So far, I'm thrilled, and the set is $100 cheaper.

    I heard about the Akai, but I prefer the service I will get from Tweeter to that I would not get from Sam's.

    Bottom line: the KV-27FS13 is deeply flawed. Panasonic Tau is even worse. From what I saw at the stores, Toshiba's geometry problems are severe.

    Samsung TXL2791F is a winner.
     
  5. Ten_Smith

    Ten_Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Joel, you are pursuasive.

    The good sound is appealing.

    Its interesting

    Samsung 103lbs, ht 23.5, wt 32, dt 19.5

    Tosh 90lbs, ht 23, wt 31, dt 20

    Really, the Samsung is not that much bigger.

    I would love to see the adjustments you've made to date? I might try them in the store to see how the color turns out.

    I will certainly look at the Samsung with a fresh eye. Thanx.
     
  6. Dave Bennett

    Dave Bennett Screenwriter

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    Joel,

    Thanks for your input on the Samsung.I had been strongly considering the Sony F13 and was hoping I would get one of the good ones, but I'll definately take a look at the Samsung. Any ideas is Velocity Modulation can be disabled or if custom picture settings can be stored? I like my movies and TV at darker levels than I like my PS2 games. Thanks for any info.
     
  7. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    I have no idea of the status of Velocity Modulation. There are several items in the Service Menu that I cannot identify. I suspect one may be for this (I recall something that said either velocity or modulation or something resembling that) but I just don't know. I've ordered a Service Manual that I should get in a few days I hope. $10. Perhaps that will detail the items in this menu in relatively lay terms. We'll see.

    I can tell you that as I turned the sharpness setting down (it looks better at 0 but somehow I couldn't get myself to leave it all the way off so I put it at 10, the next lowest setting), that the grid pattern on Sound and Vision Tune-up looked much better, almost as if convergence problems were partially solved.

    There is a custom setting for picture that can be stored. There are also pre-sets, two of which (one was called something like "natural" the other something like "soft" -- I'm at work now so I can't be sure) looked like they would be better for some uses. But I want to just put the custom setting somewhere that I'll be able to live with it for a variety of viewing and just leave it.

    But you can not adjust the pre-set modes from what I can tell.
     
  8. Ten_Smith

    Ten_Smith Stunt Coordinator

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  9. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    Two additional points on the Samsung:

    There is a post at the Home Theater Spot site that if you custom set the picture to warm, that "SVM" which I presume is Velocity Modulation, switches off. I do not know how to verify this, except for when I get the Service Manual.

    Second, there are reports, including my own, that convergence is a problem on this set. Evidence: you can see color at the edges of white text, say movie credits. However, when I calibrate the tv with my S&V dvd, that problem goes away. Then again, I did some suboptimal adjustment, because the picture is now too dark overall with those settings. This is just me getting used to the dvd calibration process on this set.

    The real question is: are there or are there not convergence problems.

    Oh, a third point is about red push. It needs to be reduced. But as of now, it remains unclear how to do that. May call for trial and error in the end.
     
  10. Ten_Smith

    Ten_Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    So when you speak of convergence you nean the three colors separating (so the convergence problem is really a lack of convergence)?
     
  11. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    Yes. Judging by the posts here and at audioreview.com, the problem is common for sets in this price range today, regardless of brand. I don't find it to be too bad on this Samsung, and I think it can be improved. Higher-end sets have a convergence menu analogous to the service menu, but I don't believe this set has one, and I'd be wary even if it did...
     
  12. Dave Bennett

    Dave Bennett Screenwriter

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    Joel,

    So overall would you reccomend this set over the Sony KV27FS13? Are there any notable features missing from the Samsung that the Sony had? I'm looking for a set that will look nice with minimal tweaking(service menu wise). It seems that you can get Sony's adjusted well but you need to fiddle in the service menus a bit too much for my taste. Again, I appreciate your help and hope you enjoy the set.
     
  13. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Ten_Smith,

    Convergence problems exhibit themselves best on one of the Avia dvd convergence/geometry grid patterns. Bring up the pattern and look for white dots that are not white. This is a spot on the screen where the electrons are not hitting each of the 3 phosphor (red, green, blue) dots correctly in order to produce a white dot. There is not much one can do regarding convergence errors on a direct view set unless you know how to fiddle with the CRT directly (by opening up the set, etc.). Changing the geometry will also affect the set's convergence.

    If you can, test out the sets you're interested in before buying - use a calibration disc such as Avia or VE. It's preferable to even test out the individual set you're interested in (not just the model line) if the store allows that.

    hope this helps,

    --tom
     
  14. Ten_Smith

    Ten_Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanx for the info Thomas. I now understand geometry and convergence.
     
  15. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    Dave:

    Right now I sure do, especially since the Samsung is so much cheaper than the Sony. Tweeter matching Abt's 449. The Akai can be found for I think $349 or something like that.

    Anyway, I don't see any important missing features at all, particularly if you are shy of the service menu, which is probably wise. You can adjust the picture quite well in the regular tv menu for adjusting color, brightness, etc. Some complain that in the Sony you can tweak all the preset picture modes (vivid, standard, movie and sports), whereas in the Samsung only the custom is tweakable. The standard, natural, and mild modes are not adjustable. But who cares? If you set one mode the way you like it that's the one you watch.

    Neither company is known for service, so get the set from a store that is reputable and get an extended in-home warranty -- for whatever set you get. It is clear these flat screens are finicky. If you have a Tweeter or one of their partners near you, go that way instead of Best Buy.

    I see only one area of this set that has a geometry problem, and it is minor. The Sony was messed up everywhere and had those pink lines. Not just one, all of them that I saw. The rumor is you open 10 boxes and get one good one. No store will let you open 10 sets.
     
  16. Dave Bennett

    Dave Bennett Screenwriter

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    Joel,

    Thanks for the info. I'm probably gonna get the Samsung tomorrow. I've gotta return the Sony to Best Buy but there is a Tweeter next door so I'll probably pick up the Samsung from there. You mentioned the price that they matches ABT's price. Does tweeter sell it for more normally? Also, what is ABT(if it's an internet site I'll make a print out and bring it in). Thanks again for your help.
     
  17. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    Abt is abtelectronics.com, but that's where I had my Sony and returned it as well. Best Buy until 2/9 sells the samsung for 449 and Tweeter will match that. Best buy has a cheaper extended warranty, but me suspecteth you get what you pay for...
     
  18. Dave Bennett

    Dave Bennett Screenwriter

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    Joel,
    Great thanks for all the help and info you've provided. I'll be picking up the Samsung tomorrow unless there's something I really dislike about it. I'll let you guys know what I think of it.
     
  19. Dave Bennett

    Dave Bennett Screenwriter

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    So I returned my Trinitron to Best Buy. Man the service people there are rude. They accused me of damaging the TV(apparently there was a scratch on the top of the case) and they they allowed me to return it but said "We'll let you do it this time." Even though they had the Samsung set there, I refused to buy it from them. I went next door to Tweeter but they did not have it in stock. None of the Tweeters in CT had any either. So we went to Bernie's. Someone immediately helped us. They were charging $500 but I told the guy that best buy had it for 450. He gave it to me for 440. I normally don't go for extended service plans, but it was 60 bucks for a 3 year in home service warranty. I went for it. So I've got the set now. Phenomenal geometry. It's near perfect. the colors are a bit off(they bleed a little but I've not tweaked the set) and I notice some small convergence problems(nothing major though). Overall I'm very happy with the set. I highly reccomend it.
     
  20. Joel Ostrow

    Joel Ostrow Agent

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    When you tweak with Avia (or whatever) the convergence problem you think you see will go away. It is an overly aggressive sharpness and brightness that makes you see color where you shouldn't see it.

    I'll want to hear your tweaks when you make them. Mine came out too dark for our tastes and I re-brightened a bit.

    Unfortunately, I now see some vertical geometry problem on the bottom part of the set. May swap it.
     

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