Video delay on Samsung LN55B650 55" LCD (1 Viewer)

[jeffdg]

So, I was happy to jump ship from my 36" Mitsubishi from 1991 to a new, sparkly Samsung LCD TV (LN55B650).

Everything worked great until I noticed none of the dialog in movies (Sony DVD (read: standard 480p) connected via component (yes, it's that old) was in sync with the video. The audio is channeled directly via optical out on the Sony to a Lexicon MC1 in AC-3 surround. The syncing is such that the video lags the audio. In fact, if I hook up my laptop to the VGA input on the TV, the Samsung screen lags the laptop screen slightly (about the same as the DVD player). So, two different inputs, two different devices, same video delay.

I'm guessing the delay is about 100-200 ms, enough to make the dialog fairly awkward. The h/w setup is the same as my CRT (except I was using s-video for that).

I'm at a point where I need a solution or return the TV, two grand is simply too much to spend on a TV that can't even sync the A/V.

So please help!, any info (e.g., solutions, latency specs on the TV (Samsung customer service was ZERO help, etc.) will be immensely useful!

Thanks!
-Jeff

 

[Stephen Tu]

Your Lexicon should have an A/V sync delay setting to delay the audio, to compensate for video processing delays that are common in newer sets.

 

[jeffdg]

That definitely helped, though the max delay is only 60ms. I did some more exploring, and it does seem that problem is greatest with my Sony DVD player (it's that stupid 400 DVD changer, a great idea in concept...) - and not so much when I play the same DVD through my laptop (VGA input on TV), like something on the order of 20 ms, barely noticeable. Still odd it was never a problem on my CRT...

something to do with the component inputs?

Do HDMI inputs have lower video latency times? (going to these sooner than later...)

Thanks for the input, the audio delay on the MC-1 will hold me over until I get a blu-ray

 

[Stephen Tu]

though the max delay is only 60ms

That's too bad, my Onkyo 705 will delay up to 250ms.

The VGA input probably disables some of the processing causing delay. I don't think HDMI will be any better than the component, unfortunately. Maybe have to hunt for a new receiver, with long enough delay times, if you don't want to go TV swapping for something with lower latency.

 

[jeffdg]

It appears you are right - same delay on the hdmi...

after a bit more playing around, it appears that there is about a 20ms delay in "game mode", and something like 80-100ms on the hdmi and component inputs when game mode is off. I read somewhere that if you rename HDMI2 as "PC" it will be low latency but maintain some processing... didn't seem to do anything for me. Anyone know anything on this?

here's the quote (mind you, this was for the LN55A950, as opposed to my LN55B650): "Like other LCDs, in its default configuration there can be some trouble with some games with latency and image blur. I had one major issue with Rock Band when the animation behind the scrolling notes made the notes blur. You can use “E-Mode Game” to fix this but I found a better solution. Because you can not change the brightness/contrast or backlight with “E-Mode Game”, I used HDMI2 input for the Xbox 360 and changed the label on HDMI2 to “PC”. This tells the TV that you have a PC hooked up to HDMI2 and skips some of the color and image processing just like the “E-Mode Game” but you can now control brightness/contrast and backlight. This only works on HDMI2 and its briefly mentioned in the manual but it makes a much better low latency game mode than the “E-Mode Game” that Samsung provides."

So... do all modern LCDs (etc) have this latency problem? Are there any that are significantly better (i.e., lower latency) than others??? cuz I don't have long to return this otherwise absolutely fabulous device.

 

[Stephen Tu]

All will have some latency, but the amount will vary, yours is probably among the worst. If you otherwise like the picture, I'd perhaps plan on getting a different AV receiver with large enough delay, since you might want one for HDMI/TrueHD/DTS-HD anyway.

Or you could always try a Sony or a Panasonic plasma to see if they are better. Perhaps this is best so you can minimize any buyer's remorse, be sure you get the TV you want.

 

[jeffdg]

Thanks for the info. Any word on LG 55LH40 and the new Vizio VF551XVT... In terms of decent picture and latency?

 

[Stephen Tu]

Sorry I don't have any info on those sets. Might try avsforum LCD section . Occasionally people have run input lag tests with various models, but don't know for those specific ones. I'm thinking these new 120hz sets have to do more work with the interpolation etc., 60ms+ will be common (when not using "game mode"), and maybe the Lexicon just has to go. Might try turning the "AMP" automotion plus off and see if that has any effect.

 

[jeffdg]

So, here's a cool thing: on my particular model, if I rename HDMI1 as PC/DVI (or something), it puts it in a similar mode as I quoted in that earlier post: I can change the contrast/brightness/"movie" settings but it disables much of the processing that causes the picture to lag. On HDMI1 now, I sync it at 30ms delay, I think I can live with that. Sheesh.

Now for the pre-pro... I have optical from the blu-ray to the prepro (MC1), and it won't decode it as AC-3 (DD), rather, it goes into Pro-Logic... I assume that is an artifact of the MC1 not recognizing the new surround formats? Can I force an AC3 output (the MC1 won't go into it unless it think it can decode it...)

 

[Stephen Tu]

Depends on which Blu-ray exactly. Have to make sure the optical out is set to bitstream, not PCM, for both DD & DTS. Also make sure DD/DTS track is selected, some default to a lossless multi-ch PCM track which would be downmixed.

I think you can get DD or DTS on the vast majority of discs, there might be some oddballs out there but mainstream newer movies should be fine.

 

[jeffdg]

As an added note for those who are also sensitive to lip syncing issues. So if I connect the HDMI into the TV, the audio is delayed to ensure syncing!! I believe, then, that TV delays the audio knowing the processing delay of the image processing. Now knowing this, I turned the TV audio on, and took the optical audio into my MC1 at no delay and played both simultaneously, and indeed, they were off. I set the MC1 sync delay to 60ms (max on mine) and the two audio outputs were just about exact - maybe 5 ms off, so this is the best objective way that i found to know how to set the delay.

very interesting indeed!!

Thank you Stephen for all your input and advice, it was most helpful in this process!

The Blu-ray I was using, btw, was a sony I borrowed from a friend. I'm looking at the LG BD390 (w/netflix streaming) but some have warned of lipsyncing on particular dvds... (Amazon user reviews). I read somewhere this might've been a problem on early units (pre May 2009)... any word?