Upconversion of Standard Definition Material On Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Tony Bensley]

Tony,


There's a handy, open-source program for windows called MediaInfo that allows you to right-click on any video or audio file and bring up a detailed report about the file that includes, amongst a ton of other detail, the framerate. It's great! Hope that helps.

Hi Brian!


Thank you very much for your kind tip!


Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it isn't providing the frames per second stat, that I desire for Blu-ray based m2ts video files.


Here's a screenshot, which I'm hoping might provide some clues:

What I'm attempting to do is compare frame rates for SD videos of some silent OZ films that appear on separate DVD and Blu-ray SD port over versions. So far, I've been able to get this information for the DVD versions, but in attempting the same with the Blu-ray, I've been stymied thus far. Unfortunately, none of our Blu-ray Players provide the fps stat, either!


Any thoughts regarding my screenshot?


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[davidmatychuk]

Hi Brian!

Thank you very much for your kind tip!

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it isn't providing the frames per second stat, that I desire for Blu-ray based m2ts video files.

Here's a screenshot, which I'm hoping might provide some clues:

MediaInfo screenshot .jpg

What I'm attempting to do is compare frame rates for SD videos of some silent OZ films that appear on separate DVD and Blu-ray SD port over versions. So far, I've been able to get this information for the DVD versions, but in attempting the same with the Blu-ray, I've been stymied thus far. Unfortunately, none of our Blu-ray Players provide the fps stat, either!

Any thoughts regarding my screenshot?

CHEERS!

Tony

My Sony Blu-Ray player does that. I'll check it later if somebody else doesn't.

 

[Will Krupp]

So far, I've been able to get this information for the DVD versions

What is the framerate on DVD?

 

[Tony Bensley]

What is the framerate on DVD?

All of the Oz silents (Plus The Wizard Of Oz 1933 animated short) on the 2005 (Disc 3) and 2009 (Disc 2) DVDs read 29 fps.


CHEERS!


UPDATE: OK, for some annoying reason, when I just attempted to double check the fps for the *2009 DVD, I found that I can't presently get the fps from the DVD VOB files either!


I'm getting a Headache.


OK, upon rechecking yet again, I found that I had to use my BD drive to pull the fps from the 2005 and 2009 DVDs. For some reason, this isn't currently working on my onboard DVD drive! Unfortunately, I still can't pull fps's from my BD Drive!


OY VEY!


* The one VOB file that would read from the 2009 DVD indicated 29 fps. Why the other VOB video files from that disc wouldn't display a frame rate, I have no idea!

 

[Will Krupp]

All of the Oz silents (Plus The Wizard Of Oz 1933 animated short) on the 2005 and 2009 DVDs read 29 fps.

hmmmm...well that sounds like they're interlaced on the DVD as well.


If you right click on the vob files in Windows and choose "properties" it should tell you the fps.

 

[Worth]

All silent films on DVD would have to be interlaced, wouldn't they, since they're not (well, they shouldn't be) running at 24fps.

 

[Will Krupp]

All silent films on DVD would have to be interlaced, wouldn't they, since they're not (well, they shouldn't be) running at 24fps.

Good point, sir!


Which means the stairstepping on the blu-ray has to be from something ELSE....whoops!

 

[Tony Bensley]

hmmmm...well that sounds like they're interlaced on the DVD as well.


If you right click on the vob files in Windows and choose "properties" it should tell you the fps.

Hi Will!


I've tried "properties" and while I can get the fps for at least some of the DVD based VOB video files, I've had zero success when attempting to do the the same with Blu-ray based m2ts video files--These simply come up blank!


Basically, I wanted the frame rates for both DVD and Blu-ray versions to hopefully glean some idea as to why some of THE WIZARD OF OZ Standard Definition BD port overs have very obvious stair-stepping, while others at least don't appear to.


It is the Titles on the third Blu-ray Disc from THE WIZARD OF OZ 75th Anniversary 5 Disc set that I'm attempting to obtain the frame rate information for.


Guess I should have bought a Sony Blu-ray Player, instead of bloody Samsung! Of course, I would have thought the info I'm trying to extract should be easily obtainable on my PC with the BD Burner setup? So much for that assumption!


Ah well!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Will Krupp]

Guess I should have bought a Sony Blu-ray Player, instead of bloody Samsung!

cough cough...now WHERE have I heard that mentioned before........?

 

[smithbrad]

Well, I looked back through the thread and i am still confused. I understand the basic differences between interlaced and progressive content, just not how that plays into the DVD format. There isn't anything i can do about commercial disks but i am interested in how to best prepare/author the disks I make. Most of what I do for personal use is to capture content from TV to make personal DVDs.


The process I currently use is:

- Record show to DVR

- Capture shows from DVR to PC in AVI format (connect s-video/analog audio from DVR to camcorder, connect camcorder to PC through firewire, use NeroVision software to capture playback)

- Convert AVI file to MPEG-2 file using TMPGEnc XPress (typically at 5100+ kbps VBR and Progressive output)

- Author content to DVD using TMPGEnc Authoring


My take is that the captures are from an NTSC source at 29.97 to AVI. Converting from AVI to MPEG2 defaults to producing a 29.97 frame rate interlaced signal. I general switch it progressive. The authoring does no additional encoding but basically just wraps the MPEG-2 video into the VOB file. So my assumption has to be that the DVD is encoded as a 29.97 frame rate progressive signal that needs no additional manipulation by the player to output to the TV. Is that not correct?

 

[Brian Kidd]

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it isn't providing the frames per second stat, that I desire for Blu-ray based m2ts video files.

Tony,


It looks like it's because of the "view" setting you're using. I recommend changing the view to "tree". That gives you more info than you'll ever need. That should work.


Here's what it looks like when I right click on an m2ts file using Tree view:

 

[Tony Bensley]

Tony,


It looks like it's because of the "view" setting you're using. I recommend changing the view to "tree". That gives you more info than you'll ever need. That should work.


Here's what it looks like when I right click on an m2ts file using Tree view:

mediainfo.JPG

Hi Brian!


Thanks, but I already attempted that, along with the other view options, to no avail!


Outside of getting a new Blu-ray Player, I think I'm simply stuck with not being able to pull frame rates from BD based video! It's not the end of the world by any stretch, but it is a bit frustrating, nevertheless!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Will Krupp]

I put on my copy of the 70th Anniversary edition of the blu-ray just now, Tony, and the silent 1925 Wizard is standard definition at 29.97fps as well. I never actually watched this before and don't still have the old DVD but this looks really TERRIBLE. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if someone made an awful mistake when porting this over.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I put on my copy of the 70th Anniversary edition of the blu-ray just now, Tony, and the silent 1925 Wizard is standard definition at 29.97fps as well. I never actually watched this before and don't still have the old DVD but this looks really TERRIBLE. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if someone made an awful mistake when porting this over.

Hi Will!


Thanks for the information. I agree THE WIZARD OF OZ 1925 silent feature is about the worst example of stair-stepping on what for you, would be the second Blu-ray Disc! Since I've only noticed this effect on some of that disc's content (Thank goodness!), I do wonder whether that 29.97 frame rate was used on all of its ported over content, or only some of it?


At any rate, I've decided to keep my 2005 Three Disc Collector's Edition, as this is still the Gold Standard where the above Dorothy Dwan, Larry Semon, Oliver Hardy version of "Oz" is concerned! This DVD was also my introduction to the marvelous scoring of Robert Israel, and it's a shame that the visuals were so badly botched on the Blu-ray!


I know I've stated it before, but damn it, the Additional Special Features Blu-ray should have been expanded to 2 Discs with new 1080p scans of the "Oz" silents, at the very least--Especially the 1925 Feature! Perhaps, this could be an issue to be addressed for THE WIZARD OF OZ 80th Anniversary Edition in 2018? Hey, Warner didn't wait for 2014 to issue the 75th Anniversary Edition, either!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

Late last night, I was finally able to get a read on the frame rate on The Wizard Of Oz "Additional Special Features" Blu-ray Disc. Well...sort of!


After a bit of tricky navigating using the MediaInfo Tree Interface, the only way I could obtain a frame rate was by selecting my BD Drive, and even then could only get the fps for DREAMER OF OZ (Not the 1925 "Oz" silent that I had been looking for!), which also displayed the 22 chapters (The first 17 are in my second screenshot), though not the actual Title! Selecting individual m2ts video files would not bring up any information!

Big thanks to Will Krupp for kindly confirming the fps for THE WIZARD OF OZ (1925) silent feature!


CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Hi Brent!


Having just received THE WIZARD OF OZ 75TH ANNIVERSARY 5 Disc set, I've done comparative screenshots from the 1925 Silent Feature from my Blu-ray and DVD sets. I'm afraid that in the former, the stairstepping is all too evident, at least to my eyes!


The following two screenshots were both Print Screen captured at approximately 720p, using Leawo Blu-ray software and Microsoft Paint. Both images were saved as PNG files for maximum PQ retention.


THE WIZARD OF OZ (1925 - Silent) SD Blu-ray Version (Note The All Too Evident Stair-Step Pattern On The Book!):

The above is from the 75th Anniversary Limited Collector's Edition of The Wizard Of Oz 5 Blu-ray/DVD set (2013), and is also included within the 4 Blu-ray/DVD 70th Anniversary Edition.


THE WIZARD OF OZ (1925 - Silent) SD DVD Version (Note The Much Smoother Imaging!):

The above is from The Wizard Of Oz Three Disc (DVD) Collector's Edition (2005).


And I was hoping to ditch the DVDs, but I'm now undecided!


Ah, well!


CHEERS!


Tony


************UPDATE************


In checking some of the other "Additional Bonus Content" Blu-ray Disc (Disc 2 of the four disc 70th Anniversary, and Disc 3 of the five disc 75th Anniversary Limited Editions of THE WIZARD OF OZ.), which consist entirely of SD port overs from previous "Wizard Of Oz" DVD editions, I've found the results of upscaling on this particular Blu-ray to be a rather mixed bag, to say the least!


While thankfully, one of my favorite Theatrical extras, "Another Romance In Celluloid" appears to be free of the annoying stair-stepping, "The Wizard Of Oz" 1925 silent starring Larry Semon and Oliver Hardy, appears to have the worst case of this! What makes it all the more painful for the latter, is that it was so beautifully restored for the 2005 DVD release, complete with Robert Israel scoring, and the stair-steps are now forever baked in on its SD port over Blu-ray version!


On the other hand, at least some of the non silent Blu-ray extras include English subtitles, unlike their DVD counterparts!

Note: At the time I made the above post, I had a then unidentified video driver issue, which caused all 4 edges of THE WIZARD OF OZ (1925) Blu-ray Screenshot to be cut off in an overscan-like fashion, in my prior Screenshot post! My Windows 10 November Upgrade build that I performed earlier today has evidently resolved this! Thus, I was able to Print Scan a more proper image!


CHEERS!

 

[Brent Reid]

Haven't looked in on this thread for a while but from a fairly simple question it seems to have acquired a life of its own! The upshot seems to be that there is no simple, universal answer and to play it safe with SD extras you care about, ensure you have them on DVD too.


Several more examples have been given here, but related to this topic I did ask a few months ago if there were any:
Extras in Better Quality on DVD Than Blu-ray?


Are there any more?

 

[Tony Bensley]

Haven't looked in on this thread for a while but from a fairly simple question it seems to have acquired a life of its own! The upshot seems to be that there is no simple, universal answer and to play it safe with SD extras you care about, ensure you have them on DVD too.


Several more examples have been given here, but related to this topic I did ask a few months ago if there were any:
Extras in Better Quality on DVD Than Blu-ray?


Are there any more?

Hi Brent!

From what I've been viewing, SD Blu-ray port overs are fundamentally inferior to their DVD counterparts, in that for anything other than HD resolutions, Blu-ray has been designed to only accept as interlaced, rather than progressive video! In my view, it's almost as bad as transferring DVD to VHS, regarding the visual downgrade! For that reason, I've seriously come to loathe these SD DVD to Blu-ray port overs! My attitude is, either spring for an HD upgrade, or put it on a DVD, instead!

CHEERS!

 

[Lord Dalek]

Deleted.