Ultra driver vs. Plus driver text... (1 Viewer)

[frank manrique]

Hi, Tom!

Thanks for posting! Really appreciate it...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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That site gives a great summary of the product, thanks for the link Frank you should have a read...
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Richard,

I will be buying one of them soon. Thanks again for suggesting it.

Now I have a brand new Behringer "Feed Back Destroyer" that's up for sale and which hasn't been used--not even plugged in--although is out of the box and mounted on the equipment rack. Anyone interested getting it off my hands? Please PM and e-mail me if interested...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Mark Seaton]

Frank- I believe I cautioned with my suggestion that doing such a setup without something like TrueRTA is a bit of a crapshoot. You can certainly attempt to do it with tones and the Rat Shack meter, but you will spend LOTS of time to get things right. If, as Tom says, the B4+ wtih 2 port plugs ends up quite close to the low extension of your 16-46s you might want to give this a try as well. The number of channels on the DCX will be handy and there are cases to use up to say 4 channels in your situation, but you could also get away with only 2 channels of a more programmable unit. I've used the QSC DSP-30 a lot for this purpose. The good and bad of it is that you need a computer to program it. If you take the time to actually measure the many responses of the various components, the two-way subwoofer can work VERY well. That said, you also open yourself up for the potential of some interesting cancellations and fighting between devices by just plugging in and giving it a whirl.

As usual, more options and room to work also give you more opportunity to screw it up!

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi Mark,

With two port splugged, the B4+ will have a close enough tune to the 16-46s that they could (relatively) easily be EQed to have a matching FR. With either system, once properly EQed (including a highpass) In room extension down to the 12-15hz range should be a piece of cake.

As you say, lots of measurements would be needed during all the proposed variations though...this would be a bit time consuming..

Tom V.
SVS

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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Frank- I believe I cautioned with my suggestion that doing such a setup without something like TrueRTA is a bit of a crapshoot. You can certainly attempt to do it with tones and the Rat Shack meter, but you will spend LOTS of time to get things right. If, as Tom says, the B4+ wtih 2 port plugs ends up quite close to the low extension of your 16-46s you might want to give this a try as well. The number of channels on the DCX will be handy and there are cases to use up to say 4 channels in your situation, but you could also get away with only 2 channels of a more programmable unit. I've used the QSC DSP-30 a lot for this purpose. The good and bad of it is that you need a computer to program it. If you take the time to actually measure the many responses of the various components, the two-way subwoofer can work VERY well. That said, you also open yourself up for the potential of some interesting cancellations and fighting between devices by just plugging in and giving it a whirl.

As usual, more options and room to work also give you more opportunity to screw it up!
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Mark,

Am indeed keeping in mind your advice of getting something like the TrueRTA stuff (I believe someone told me I can even download one version of it onto my PC, so I'll be doing so as soon as I find the given link! :b ) in order to implement my quirky ideas of experimenting with the set up of multiple subs, as well as the methodology, caveats, and even the possible purchase of a QSC DSP-30 device.

Doing this "thing" is something that will be spread over time because of several reasons, one of the most salient ones being the learning curve necessary for my better understanding of how to operate things like the TrueRTA stuff and such, so it isn't something that is so drastic that needs to be implemented immediately.

I feel very fortunate to be the recipient of your wise advice, and for that I truly thank you...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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As you say, lots of measurements would be needed during all the proposed variations though...this would be a bit time consuming..
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...wowee!...it sure looks like I'll have lots to do after retirement!...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Richard_M]

Mark

The QSC looks like a nice device, still only operates from 20Hz up though...

Frank

This is the problem you are going to face with any of these units is being able to measure your in room response properly and understand what you are looking at, I am not implying you are not capable of doing this, I for instance use EFT5 for my measurements, now I realise that all my gear is not proper calibrated pro test equipment, and I have never stated that it is, but then again I don't make a living out of it either, so for my own setup and I do help others as well if they require it, the proof is in the results.

As I said I am a set and forget person, as I much prefer to reap the fruits of my purchases than forever fiddle. Sure I still check my settings from time to time, and if I add or change anything I then re-calibrate, but if you let these things get at you, you will never be happy.

You would be much better downloading the Behringer & QSC software and having a play with them, this will help you understand better if you are going to be comfortable with either unit.

The reason I use 5x channels for my subs is they are all located in different positions, hence the delay and phase control is required for each sub, in your case with your subs stacked you won't need as many channels.

How my setup is configured I basically use the DCX to calibrate/adjust each sub to match each other, the DEQ which sits before the DCX I use for overall parametric adjustments. What works for one does not always work for another, so this is where experimentation comes in.

 

[Mark Seaton]

Actually, I have spoken to QSC about this and measured the device myself, and indeed, the only limit is the software. Input to Output of the EQ is less than -1dB at 10Hz. More importantly, the filters most certainly affect frequencies below 20Hz. This means that any shelf filter, parametric or low frequency high pass (subsonic filter) set to say 20Hz will continue its expected response shape. So long as you can measure the response, you can get quite creative in contouring frequencies below 20Hz.

Many also don't realize that a Bessel filter has minimal attenuation (it doesn't start dropping fast) until well below the "specified" frequency. In other words, a 12dB/oct Bessel filter at 20Hz doesn't really start cutting off hard until 10-12Hz. Add a well placed shelf filter or wider band parametric, and you can create all kinds of shapes. Also remember that below 20-25Hz it is increasingly rare (unless your room is very large) to find narrow band effects as you get closer to the point where low frequencies couple to a pressure modulation mode rather than propagation (sound bouncing around) and modal behavior.

What I particularly like about the QSC is that if I want I can utilize all of the processing power on a single channel or split to a pair of outputs, or whatever wild idea I come up with. There is a Sym-Net product line from Symetrix which offers much more processing power and many more channels, at a much higher cost, which does allow high-pass/low-pass settings to as low as 10Hz. I just used one last week and have one here to play with, and it is pretty much the ultimate in flexibility for setting up an 8 channel home theater. Again, you have to know what you want it do!

Cheers,

 

[Richard_M]

Thanks for the response Mark...

Very interesting read as always, you have mentioned the Bessel filters before and I thank you for sharing this information.

The Behringers operate in a similar way in that the software is configurable from 20Hz up but passes frequencies below, how far and to what freq I have no idea, although some have tested some of the Behringer products and say they are reasonably flat to 10Hz.

I love those shelving filters, and have used them on several occasions to protect subs, as they allow the passing of frequencies and once the SPL threshold has been hit at 20Hz invokes whichever filter setup you have configured to attenuate the lower freq's.

One of these days when I get some $$$ I may invest in one of the QSC units, as I am a great fan of programming via a computer, makes life much easier for playing with the filters in real time.

Keep the good informative post coming Mark, we are all the better from them.

 

[Lee-c]

Man, this is an excellent thread. Thanks for the detailed info., Tom.

 

[TimJC]

I've had both a 20-39PC+ and a PC-Ultra. Get the Ultra and don't look back. You'll thank me once you experience it.


Tim