Twin Peaks pilot DVD from Republic Entertainment? Any good? (1 Viewer)

[Michael St. Clair]

MANY releases world-wide are PAL to NTSC converted transfers and vice-versa.

PAL-sourced NTSC releases of eastern studio properties are not uncommon. PAL-sourced NTSC releases of western studio properties are EXTREMELY uncommon, except for bootlegs, of course.
Why has nobody tried to claim that region-free releases of western studio properties are common? Because they are not, except for bootlegs.
Look, we disagree. Get over it. Evidence is subjective, and that goes both ways. I feel the pro-bootleg evidence is more compelling, and some do not. Shrug.
Until somebody can get an explicit response (i.e., not a non-response with an inferred context) from Warner Bros or some other documented rightsholder for this title, this thread is totally pointless.
I'll happily admit I was wrong in light of any real proof!
Get over it.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Hey, Michael, nothing to get over. This is an intriguing little mystery, even if you think it's solved.
Take a look at the (legitimate) DVDs for It's a Wonderful Life and High Noon. Both have this Republic Pictures logo on the keepcases. I don't think either of them is region coded. They also say Silver Screen at the left edge, though it's a different typeface than appears on the Twin Peaks disc. I'll have to take a look to see if the DVD logo resides on them; I don't remember.
I'm pretty sure that I've seen discs without the little DVD logo on them even here in Region 1, usually from smaller companies. It wouldn't surprise me in the least for the less careful to drop it off.
As far as PAL-NTSC transfers, well, they might have used a television master from Australia or something. There are possibilities that you're dismissing pretty lightly.
Another possibility just came to mind, that would explain a lot of things: maybe Warner tossed or lost the masters to the original pilot. That would explain the lack of any video release anywhere, as well as use of a PAL master, if this is a legitimate release.
Hey, it's more interesting than working!

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"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
[Edited last by Mark Zimmer on July 31, 2001 at 02:44 PM]

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I don't claim to have anything solved, I just have a strong opinion.

The original High Noon and IaWL discs are over 2 years old (3 years old, I think), so this doesn't surprise me. If the High Noon reissue from last year had the Republic Pictures logo on the case, I'd be surprised. Do you know which High Noon disc is the one in question?

 

[John CW]

I appreciate that you no longer insist you know for a fact that it is a bootleg (Quote: "Pretend it's not all you want, but it is a bootleg.") and admit now that the "evidence" you've been providing everyone with is subjective, but I'd like to point out why I "seem insistent upon ignoring this evidence":

Quote:

This could easily be an accident, the same amount care applied to Region 1, 2 and 4 releases is not usually found in Region 3 releases. Even Region 3 Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan films (which you'd imagine are big sellers) often come with extremely poor prints/packaging/menus etc (this could also explain Point 2 for you).
Again, subjective, but this is why this piece of "evidence" doesn't sway me either.
Now for the recap of the information that points to the fact it may be a legitimate release:
1) The article taken from Asia BizTech/Commercial Times Taiwan makes it very clear that Catalyst Logic have infact bought the rights to US productions in the past.
2) The DVD comes with a 5.1 mix. This mix has been created by Catalyst Logic (it was made in Dolby Surround originally) or by someone else along the way. This is a proper 5.1 sound track, making use of the LFE -- however it IS amaturishly done. Why would a bootlegger bother remixing a soundtrack?
3) It comes with a Catalyst Logic hologram on the front cover (have bootleggers started trying to authenticate their *own* releases now??)
4) I have tried to make Warner Bros aware of the fact that people were getting ripped off on eBay (they originally sold there for $150+ a pop -- and I mean SOLD) for a disc which may or may not be a bootleg and yet it continues to sell unabated (unlike Indiana Jones, Back to the Future and Star Wars discs which have all been stopped by their copyright holders).
5) Catalyst Logic have released several US films under their "Screen Classics" label and appear to be a very legitimate company: Please visit their website - http://www.catalyst.com.tw/index/flash.html
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http://www.geocities.com/fwwmfight

 

[Michael St. Clair]

John,
You do not find my points compelling and as valid arguments to any of your points, and vice versa. I don't see any point in discussing it further along these lines.
I do stand corrected on the DvD logo issue, at least for the current printing.
You acknowledge that you are optimistic and want to give benefit of doubt, my whole personality is 180 degrees in the other direction. I'd love to hear something from Warner Bros, but inaction to your messages is more likely (in my opinion) to be from poor internal communication or bureacracy than from tacit acknowledgement of the legitimacy of these discs.
I am interested in what is not subjective...like, does the 2000 reissue of 'High Noon' include the Republic Pictures logo on the package.
Beyond easily quantified issues like that, I'd just as soon go back and watch my laserdiscs of Twin Peaks (and 'On the Air'), and eagerly await positively legitimate, NTSC-sourced DVDs of the same.

[Edited last by Michael St. Clair on July 31, 2001 at 03:11 PM]

 

[Mark Zimmer]

The problem of course, is that you will be waiting a very, very long time for a Region 1 version of the original pilot because it's in the hands of AOL/Warner (a/k/a The House of Darkness). I guess that's why I'm hoping this is a legitimate release.
The High Noon I have is the original release, but 1999 isn't all that long ago, and these Twin Peaks discs were being pressed at least as early 2000 by the date of that review.
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"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I'm pretty sure High Noon was 1998 or earlier. 1998 was the year that Spelling shut down Republic as a studio and abosorbed their output.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

You acknowledge that you are optimistic and want to give benefit of doubt, my whole personality is 180 degrees in the other direction. I'd love to hear something from Warner Bros, but inaction to your messages is more likely (in my opinion) to be from poor internal communication or bureacracy than from tacit acknowledgement of the legitimacy of these discs.

Can anyone confirm that Warner has anything to do with the release of the pilot in Asia on either VHS or LD? I had the Japanese LD box set with the original pilot (not the altered version) and it wasn't from Warner Brothers. I seriously doubt that Warner owns those rights in Asia.
This will all be moot soon anyway as Mark Rance confirmed that he is beginning work on the Twin Peaks collection now. It's in the transcript from Comi-Con on the Digital Bits website. I'd be willing to bet that we're going to get the whole series as it originally aired.
Jeff

 

[BrianB]

quote: I'd be willing to bet that we're going to get the whole series as it originally aired.[/quote]
Except there's been lots of recent reports that the pilot will NOT be included in the boxset.
From the excellent Twin Peaks DVD FAQ (http://www.dugpa.com/)

I read on alt.tv.twin-peaks that the Pilot Episode would not be included with this DVD boxed set. Is this true ?
Artisan has given up working on obtaining the rights to the Pilot episode. Last we checked, the rights to the pilot episode were owned by Warner Bros. Our latest information is that their box set slated for Fall 2001 will only contain the First Seven Episodes and it will NOT include the Pilot Episode. Hopefully once Warner Bros. sees how well Artisan's box set sells, they will get smart and release the Pilot themselves. (and hopefully with both the TV and European endings via seamless branching)

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Nothing In Particular
[Edited last by BrianB on July 31, 2001 at 06:45 PM]

 

[MilesH]

Michael,
Catalyst Logic is a publicly traded company on TAISDAQ, the Taiwanese equilivant of NASDAQ. They are not a bootlegger. All of their releases are fully licensed from the respective copyright holders.
You want indisputable evidence that the Twin Peaks DVD is legitimate? Here you go:
Time Warner Signed Exclusive Deal With Catalyst Logic http://www.elitelaw.com.tw/english/enews.asp?id=586
"With a domestic market share of 70%, Catalyst Logic became the largest DVD/VCD (movie CDs) distributor in Taiwan. It has signed an agreement with Time Warner on Aug 15 for exclusive distribution for the latter's movie CDs in the domestic market. According to the agreement, Catalyst Logic will distribute 5,700 of Time Warner's movie titles in the form of DVDs, VCDs, and VHS. It will also handle VCD rentals. With exclusive distribution for Time Warner's titles, Catalyst Logic expects NT$1.1-1.2 billion of cash flow next year."
In case you didn't know, Time Warner owns the Twin Peaks pilot.
Your continued crusade to associate Catalyst Logic with bootleggers is both misguided and reckless. I believe an apology is definitely in order.
[Edited last by MilesH on July 31, 2001 at 08:01 PM]

 

[Matt_Stevens]

The fact is, this is a legit release from a legit company with a legit license of this film. Period. I have seen the DVD in question and it shows no signs of being a bootleg. My friend at Sony, who's expertise is compression, took a look at this DVD when it was first released (because I was curious and sent it to him) and it was his opinion that it is 100% legit. He e-mailed his friend at Warner DVD about it and the response was, shit on toast, what a surprise... "It's legit."
Anyone saying it is a bootleg needs to come up with PROOF. It is simply outrageous to claim a well respected company is releasing bootleg materials, simply because it is release in Asia. Most DVDs in Asia are Region 0, because the consumer over their demands it. It's just the way things are. It is not LAW that releases absolutley have to be for that region alone.
If this isn't enough for the naysayers, then call Warner Bros. Until then, don't continue to libel a good company.
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www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Funny how so many people have been using the argument that Warner Bros has nothing to do with this title as corroborating its purported legitimacy, and now others are using a (previously unknown to the participants in this discussion) formal relationship between WB and this label as evidence that the title is legit despite the fact that a studio which has nothing to do with WB is credited on the packaging! So which is it? Does WB control the rights for this property in Asia, or not? Get your stories straight!
As far as Matt and Miles, get down off your high horse, both of you.
I stated that if I was wrong, I would certainly come clean and admit it. I am not so arrogant as you may think.
I now suspect I may have been wrong, and have no problem admitting it! I am certainly a bigger man than to refuse to!
As far as your taunts about shame and libel, I have this to say to you. Get a life. Libel requires damage. In what way has Catalyst Logic been damaged (other than the damage they do to themselves)? Have I hurt their reputation in Asia? Hardly? Have I hurt their reputation here? Are they doing to show damages of reduced sales in a part of the world that they are not licensed to sell product to begin with?
I apologize to any forum members whose self-image is so tied to the reputation of this disc that they have been personally offended. To 'Catalyst Logic', I offer no apology whatsoever! Your product is shoddy! If you released an NTSC product which used an appropriate master (eliminating video artifacts, timing speedup, and pitch inaccuracy), without an 'amateurish' audio mix, and correctly packaged, there would be no chance of anyone mistaking your effort for a bootleg! I openly welcome your suits of libel as an opportunity to educate the public of your substandard product!
[Edited last by Michael St. Clair on July 31, 2001 at 10:15 PM]

 

[Jeff Adkins]

I still say this DVD was licensed from Republic, not Warner for the following reasons:
-Warner has never released the original unaltered pilot in any country on any format.
-The unaltered pilot has been released in Japan by a company other than Warner. If I have time tonight I will dig out my VHS dub from the Japanese LD and see what logo it has. If I remember correctly, it is WorldVision (owned formerly by Republic, now Artisan).
-The packaging clearly makes no mention of Warner whatsoever and matches several other Republic DVDs.
-The Warner VHS release of the altered pilot went out of print on VHS recently and is no longer available. This sounds like it was a 10 year license (which would mean it expired either last year or this year), although I can't prove that. But when something that was sublicensed goes out of print, it usually means that the license has expired.
Jeff

 

[Matt_Stevens]

Warner has an interest in the pilot. They own it in certain territories. Michael, you need to calm yourself down about this. If the disc was a bootleg, Warner would have said so. Or theywould have said, they don't know. But when they say, no it's legit. Well, then it's legit!
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www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Matt,
I'm having a good time. I think if you are going to accuse fellow forum members of libel, that maybe you are the one who needs to calm down, and quick!

 

[Robert Spalding]

In before the lock!
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[Matt_Stevens]

Michael, you seem to be very upset. I ain't the only one to notice this, ya know. You are taking this so personally. Maybe you need to watch LETHAL WEAPON to get those frustrations let out.

And if you continue to say things about a company that are not true, what else shall we call it?
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www.deceptions.net/superman
[Edited last by Matt_Stevens on August 01, 2001 at 01:07 PM]

 

[Michael St. Clair]

 

[John CW]

I'm glad someone has finally sorted this out (although St.Clair STILL doesn't admit the evidence points the other way! Hehe, oh well!

.
It's now very clear (well to me at least!) that it is not a bootleg (thanks to Miles and Matt!). Just for the record: Once a company has licensed a product for release in a foreign territory I don't believe the original license owners are necessarily credited anywhere! If so, this would explain the lack of a Warner Brothers credit on Japanese Laserdiscs (if there is one) -- they were licensed to WorldVision!
This explains why certain films here in the UK are distributed by entirely different companies than in the US (often rivals!). Production companies are still the same (and credited as so) but world rights owners are most definitely not!
Would this (along side shoddy packaging) not explain the crediting on the Catalyst Logic release?
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http://www.geocities.com/fwwmfight

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Actually, Jeff is correct. The mystery is far from solved.