The Matrix Revolutions (2003) (2 Viewers)

[Parris]

yeah didn't think of the legal issues but that sounds like a very promising project. I think the coma scene served a purpose and should stay but I must say that it opened up a can of worms about the machines that left me disappointed to not see. I wanted more interaction between Neo and machines in the city. So many questions and not enough time :frowning:


"maybe one day we will get a full blown anime series about the matrix"

 

[Shawn_KE]

I'd totally trim a lot of the Trinity death scene away.

That scene did go on for too long. I felt more when the Keymaker died than when Trinity died. She should have died at the end of Reloaded.

 

[Scott Weinberg]

Absolutely, entirely and without a doubt my least favorite sequence in the trilogy. It begins as fairly touching...and then it just goes ON and ON and ON...

Sucks nearly all the heart out of what should be a shocking and, well, a SAD moment.

The Matrix Revolutions does, in my opinion, work even better on a second visit.

 

[Alex Spindler]

You know the worst part? It became clear as I was working on the edit that the reason Neo must save her is so she can drop him off on an errand.

 

[Richard Kim]

I agree with trimming the Trinity death scene. I would also do the same to the battle sequences in Zion. I thought it was overkill, and went on way too long.

 

[ThomasC]

I agree with Richard. Even the "Super" Burly Brawl is getting a bit monotonous for me, so I find myself watching the scenes that most people think are boring, but contribute the most in terms of philosophy and the like.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Not monotonous for me. Probably the greatest eye candy committed to film. I enjoy the fights like I enjoy dance scenes in musicals. The cinematography, the editing, the composition...it's top-notch.

I love the steak, but the sizzle doesn't bother me at all.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Ben_@]

They are well composed, but after five minutes of non-stop fighting, most people need a break. I know after a while I felt that this was just gratuitous and not as cool as the film makers thought it was. It takes what are, serious battles for survival and turns them into almost self parody as they just go on and on. I always laugh at the midway point of the Smith fight in Reloaded, it just gets rediculous, but it is lots of fun.

 

[EricW]

It takes what are, serious battles for survival and turns them into almost self parody as they just go on and on. I always laugh at the midway point of the Smith fight in Reloaded, it just gets rediculous, but it is lots of fun.

the problem i have with the Zion battle scenes in Revolutions are not that they are just too long, but that from a 'realistic' standpoint, the battle should have been over in less 10 min. real time. i mean in the movie, you see clouds of thousands of sentinals seemingly going wherever they wanted, roaming around in the open as if by random, like a school of fish, occasionally taking out a mech by flying through them or picking them up. if they all swarmed the mechs early and directly, there wouldn't have been a fight (so obviously no movie or plot prgression). the fact that they just act practically indifferent to the mechs makes the battle unrealistic and draws me out of it.

whereas in the Burly Brawl, which i used to think was too long but now i love, Neo and The Smiths are acting pretty realistically - Neo is aware he can't beat him/them, but he's doing his best to see how far he can go. there was a sense of urgency for me.

 

[Alex Spindler]

The Zion fight was really harmed by repetition. Compared to any similar fight in other movies, there will usually be a variation to keep it fresh and interesting. The Zion fight really provides only three units (Sentinels, APUs, and people with shells). The sentinels are especially weak because of their hand to hand nature so they literally have to flood over an APU to even try to scratch it. It becomes almost boring visually seeing them meander and then take down an APU by flooding time and again. Of course, the APUs could be easily defeated by seven sentinels attacking from all different sides (and on top). They can only attack in two directions at once.


The Burly Brawl has moments that work quite well, but have a great deal of repetition. That there is more than one 'More' phase is really the heart of the problem. The key events are great in it (first rush of Smiths, Swinging for the Fences, Grabbing the Pole), but it just keeps repeating and missing the point of the exercise. Smith is able to compete with Neo's superman status through numbers, thereby introducing a threat to the otherwise unstoppable Neo. But the constant sway dulls the impact.

Also, it includes the very annoying everlasting sunglasses effect that Blade 2 has, where no limit of hits to the face will dislodge the sunglasses of the hero.

 

[John Doran]

well, there's absolutely nothing i'd change about either of the sequels. not one thing.

and while it's obviously a matter of personal taste whether anyone likes the movies or not, i'd have to disagree with the suggestion that they're somehow inconsistent: i think i've already provided (in the early-goings of this thread) a pretty comprehensive and consistent explanation for the way the battle for zion was executed, for instance. and there are similar rationales forthcoming for any other of the supposed plot-holes in the movies.

so it seems to me, anyway.

i just can't get enough of these films.

 

[Darren Haycock]

I finally caught Matrix 3 last night. I don't know what people are talking about with the negative reviews. I thought it was pretty dang cool, and a fitting end for the trilogy. Yes, a couple of things I would've changed. (Stop focusing on the Oracle's changed face so much, Trinity's enormously long conversation with Neo at her death), but overall I really liked it. Bring on the box set!

 

[Albert Hernan]

Well.. Im a bit late here, but I have to say this about the end of the movie... of the trilogy :b

Ok, I think all this stuff is nothing more than another version of the matrix, I mean, there is a reboot and now the matrix is more "human friendly" like the previous matrix ("human history" version, for example, was better than the "perfect world" version...), so... this way the machines learned new things about the humans (love for example), and now, the matrix is more beautiful, have more freedom (the people have the power to choose the matrix or the real world), and things like that.

And it is not green anymore

(sorry if this was pointed before, I didnt read the entire thread)

(and sorry for my bad english, Im a french guy )


......... oh, and btw, for me, the matrix is a separate movie with their own end and plot, reloaded and revolution have a complete different point of view. I mean, it is obvious that neo and her friends have the control of the matrix at the end of the first matrix, and yes... neo kill smith... I still believe that. For me, the matrix history die when neo fly after the phone call.
Matrix reloaded and Matrix Revolutions are just movies to make more money using the success of the first, nothing more beyond that... this big movie cut in the half dont have too much of the first movie, just the character names and the style because the plot is totally new, a total twist of the premise of the original movie.

Trilogy? I dont think so.

(again sorry for my bad english)

Bye and thanks for read my crazy stuff lol

 

[Chuck Mayer]

So why on earth would I revive this thread 7 months after the last post? To stimulate conversation in preparation for the 10 disc set hitting stores soon? I wish. I know about five people will read this post, and then it will begin it's quick descent into the nether-regions of HTF, from whence I recalled it

But at other places I visit, a few threads have popped up and reading them piqued my interest. This link has been bandied about numerous times in this (and the previous) thread(s). I've read it on and off for a little over a year, as the author has added to it. It is by no means the end-all, be-all analysis of the Matrix sequels. It is not necessarily correct. It IS well-researched and supported by direct evidence from the films. I have read a few others, almost as good. My joy from this site and these essays are the story and theme connections they either support or inform. Reading these essays allows me to better form my opinions on the purpose of the story/films. I actually had ONE moment this morning that caused me to bump this OLD thread. Reading the Reloaded essay, a simple thought occurred to me that I barely managed to catch the tail end of. I am still struggling to remember exactly what I perceived, so bear with me while I elucidate.

We argued forever about the notion of Zion being another level of the Matrix. What we were actually discussing was the possibility that Zion existed in a database somewhere. My own (much earlier) conclusion was simple. Zion *is* an extension of the Matrix, but not LITERALLY. Zion is a created environment, used to control humans. Zion becomes something more, as Neo does. To get more philosophical, the differences between the Matrix and the real world are superficial and only based in perception. Both are environments based solely on the perception of the inhabitants. Now the machines created the Matrix (or modified something we had created), as a level of reality one step away from the real world. As we were gods to the machines, so couldn't this reality merely be a construct used as a prison as well. And such a cycle can go up (The Matrix to Zion to ????) and down (a true Matrix within a Matrix). At the time I realized this, it seemed more profound, and made the films yet again feel part of a vaster whole.

Much was also made about The Oracle being a mere intuitive program, but can't the processes (advanced as they have become through machine/program evolution) actually become sufficiently complex and powerful enough so as to be indistinguishable (yes, I am borrowing Clarke's famous quote ) from actual foresight and divination? And how does that relate back to the idea that Neo could have powers in the real world, or that the real world might merely be the layer on top (or below) the Matrix?

So begins the long fall in the Movies forum,
Chuck

EDIT: The tough thing about those essays, similar to the films, is that they contain more information than I can process at one time. While I recognize the validity of the many disparate postulations and analyses, I am unable to actually step far enough back to see one grand big picture. Too complex, but I love looking at it bit by bit.

 

[Parris]

Chuck I wont let this thread fall into the abyss!!

Im actually waiting for the box set so I can watch all the behind the scenes and commentary associated with it so I can get a better grasp of what the W Bros may or may not have been trying to get across to us on screen. I am a firm believer that they didn't have a clue how fascinating The Merovingian would be and if they did we would have seen alot more of him in Revolutions and the one thing that has always bothered me was the lack of further exploration of the Neo/Smith relationship. It is alluded to on a few occasions but never truly explored...........IMO

 

[Chris Atkins]

If Zion was another form of control, can someone explain why Smith so desperately wanted to get the codes to the Zion mainframe in the first film?

And if they needed the codes to get to Zion in the first film, why do they know where Zion is in the second film?

I'm sure there is some answer to this, but this was the first jarring plot point for me in the sequels.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Perhaps it occured when Smith was downloaded in that guy who tried to kill Neo in the real world.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Perhaps it occured when Smith was downloaded in that guy who tried to kill Neo in the real world.

Well, the machines already knew where Zion was at the beginning of Reloaded, even though as far as we know they never got the codes to the mainframe to discover the location.

But then later in Reloaded we are told that the machines have destroyed Zion six (?) times already, so they must know where it is.

 

[Chris Farmer]

Chris, I'd say Smith wanted the codes for himself, not the machines. He wanted freedom, even before Neo "set him free" he was doing things very un-agentlike. Look at this interrogation of Morpheus, ear piece out, sunglasses off, raw fury and hatred. He wanted to free himself of the Matrix, and getting into Zion's mainframe was the way to do it. Presumably he doesn't know that the machines are going to destroy Zion. THe agents seem to not be told everything, but are there as yet another level of control, so things aren't too easy for the escaped people, a fact the agents themselves seem not to know.

 

[EricW]

Presumably he doesn't know that the machines are going to destroy Zion. THe agents seem to not be told everything, but are there as yet another level of control, so things aren't too easy for the escaped people, a fact the agents themselves seem not to know.

hmm... that might not be the case - Smith tells Morpheus of the Architect's earlier versions of the matrix. so maybe he's aware of all these rebirths/resets.

i took Smith's "i want to get out of here" speech as in meaning he's tired of this whole cycle of reload after reload. he wants to destroy the humans which would result in the destructions of the machines (no energy), and that's fine with him.