The Good & Bad of DRM (Digital Rights Management) Technology on Future Video Formats (1 Viewer)

[Ryan-G]

Actually, Any process to unlock a locked player is so filled with uncertanties that it is best to assume a locked player won't be unlocked.

You have 4 choices for unlocking a locked player.

1. Some form of Internet connection. Assumes everyone has equal access to the internet. Which is very untrue. Low income, Rural, and Satellite users are all potentially left without a functioning player.

2. Some form of Phone-In process where the Player phones in. Requires some degree of technical skill in getting the Player to Phone-In. Considering that most people are lucky if they can set the clock on their VCR this is asking alot of the consumer.

3. Punch in a code on your remote. Waste of time, money, and energy in implementing the lock. Just call in, claim your player is locked, get the code, and unlock it every time it locks while playing bootlegs.

4. Take it to a distributer. Overburdening the consumer, plus it creates an enourmous hazard when the hypothetical bad DVD locks a few million Players and suddenly Best Buy/Wallmart are flooded with people wanting their Player unlocked *NOW*. Not to mention most of those places will charge for unlocking, which will really tick people off if it was a bad release that locked the Player.

The whole idea of locking has more problems than it's worth.

Not to mention, if Locking the Player is the solution, it'll be trivial for an accomplished programmer to trojan out the locking code from a player with a disc burned on a computer with the right code.

No, Locking won't happen, it can't happen. It'll cause many more problems than it solves.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

I agree with most of what you've said, but this part isn't so. HD-DVD and Blu-ray drives can and do distinguish between writables/re-writables and stamped disks, and don't check for revocation list updates on anything except stamped disks. So burning something on a PC won't do a damned thing to unlock a player.

What you'd need is to somehow decrypt the revocation list, find the part which revokes that particular player (or, theoretically, all players), comment that out, and give the disk a serialization which makes it subsequent to the locking disk, re-encrypt using a master key, then use real, professional equipment to stamp the disk (not burn it).

Not to say it couldn't be done; some Chinese pirate disks are stamped using the same equipment as normal DVDs; however, Blu-ray ROM Mark could be used as a fingerprint to identify exactly which machine these bootlegs came from, or not let disks play; this could be a path for the studios and CE companies to crack down on facilities who stamped bootlegs or other "interesting" disks like revocation list eliminators.

 

[Cees Alons]

I have to agree with most of what you've said, but this part doesn't have to.

It's like with Mac-addresses: these machines don't have to be standard conforming in every sense.
Professional crooks don't leave fingerprints.


Cees

 

[Rob Gillespie]

However they do it, I think we can guarantee that it'll make things awkward and more costly for legitimate customers and make absolutely no difference to pirates.

The HDDVD vs BluRay war seems to be just down to which games console sells the most, rather than anything to do with what provides the customer with the best option. In another few years they'll be an even bigger and faster format and we'll have to go through all this crap again.

There was a big buzz about DVD when it first came out. All I'm hearing and reading about the new formats is negative and about controlling the person buying the disk.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Then they can't produce stamped disks. My understanding is that the ROM Mark is based on a non-adjustable, native-- even random, generated when the machine is manufactured-- property of the equipment. If it's changed somehow, that machine would not be able to produce legitimate disks anymore.

Pirates will still "get the job done", I'm not disputing that (I think they'll use recordables), I'm just saying they won't be able to stamp their own disks without leaving a trace as they can with DVD.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

Nobody's stamping discs "without a trace" even now. Any LD, CD, or DVD can be traced back at least to the mastering lathe if not to the actual replication press, by certain unique markings. I can identify most LD pressing plants by eye, and you can bet that the bootleg pressings out of China could be traced back to their source if the will existed. As it is, though, it's more expedient for Hollywood and Washington to put the screws on the American consumer and try to make nice with Peking and Hong-Kong.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Interesting. I thought that this was unique to BD, but apparently the only "unique" part is incorporating the markings into the data-stream.

Thanks for the correction, Christopher.

 

[FrancisP]

You're making the mistake in assuming that this is about thwarting piracy. All this is about locking the product by tecnologically making the fair use doctrine useless. Then they can charge us fees for the things that people haven't had to in the past.

 

[Kevin M]

FrancisP, while I can understand that feeling (I remember Divx too), you have to admit that it does sound a bit paranoid. The studios also remember Divx and should understand that if they tried to do this it WILL fail as well. The vast majority of People aren't as stupid as they might seem sometimes...Divx proved this by it's failure.

At least the vast majority HT enthusiasts, the target audience for HD discs for the foreseeable future, are not that gullable for the most part.....I like to think.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Well, FrancisP is right from a certain perspective. If you view "fair use" and "things people haven't had to [pay for] in the past" as being "the ability to make as many bit-for-bit copies to hard drive or disk as you like", then yes, the DRM is at least partially about preventing that.

But as you point out, Kevin, Divx won't fly, no matter who proposes it.

 

[FrancisP]

I agree with Rep Joe Barton R-Tex and Rep Rick Boucher D-Va that we need a framework in place that specify what rights consumers have. They would allow you to have "the ability to make as many bit-for-bit copies to hard drive or disk as you like", make back-up copies, or use it to make hash as long as you don't make multiple copies to sell. It would
reinstate the fair use law and prevent studios from interfering with that. If that were in place then I would be more supportive of digital tv.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Repealing the DMCA would have the same effect.

I would welcome consumer digital rights legislation-- if only just so it would cut down on the arguments here and in other places-- but in its absence, I'm willing to buy HD content as long as the restrictions aren't too onerous. And so far they've not crossed the line for me. As always, YMMV.

 

[CraigF]

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but you guys probably know: how will "region management" be with hi-def? I'm getting the impression that it will be almost impossible to play hi-def content from "elsewhere", I mean if they're going to be so restrictive with even "in-region" content. Thanks.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

A good question, and both sides keep dodging the issue. I suspect they will leave it up to the studios (which is, technically, the same situation as DVD, but you see very few Region 0 DVD titles...).

 

[Daniel_TS]

AACS is not used to protect the region coding fields of HD DVD and BD.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6536399

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6290333.html

 

[CraigF]

Good to hear, hope it happens. Seems weird they'd drop it, when so much of DRM is about copyright and distribution, and what else is regional coding about?

Sure raises a bit of a red flag to me, because I do not get the impression they're trying to make anything less restrictive, so they must have something even worse (for us) in mind.

I have little doubt if they're dropping regional coding they will somehow tie a particular disc's playing to a machine (or at least sold in a particular place). Somehow. Or else they're being very hypocritical about what this DRM is really about... Pay per view seems most likely, copyright is the justification...

Anyway, the more I read what you guys say, the less trusting I am that the "studios" have anything good in mind for us. Hi-def is just the excuse to roll-out the disease, it's merely the carrier and not the important result.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Region coding is and has always been about two things: not eroding the theatrical market with early-released DVDs in markets where the movie hasn't left the theaters yet, and the fact that international distribution rights are sold to different (legally spearate) companies under the same corporate banner, and sometimes even completely different studios altogether.

I think that, with the latest theatrical season being so unimpressive, the studios are finally starting to seriously consider alternate release models-- in this case, releasing simultaneously in different markets, and possibly even simultaneously with the theatrical. They've been loath to do so before, but at this point, I think they figure: what have they got to lose? This, more than any sort of kindness in their hearts, is at the center of the recent softening of the hardline stance to region coding.

I'd say within a year or two after HD disks are available, we see a disk release occur either simultaneous with theatrical exhibition or about four to six weeks after. The results of that experiment will determine whether such a new model is profitable or not, and if it is, I expect region coding to go the way of the dinosaur.

 

[AaronMK]

Studios would use proprietary systems, contracts, and EULAs to mandate/enforce their usage rules and make them legally binding. DMCA really only does 2 things: 1)makes breaking a protection mechanism a criminal offense instead of civil and 2)prevents the tools for doing so from appearing in marketed products.

Without DMCA, in addition to the FBI warning, you would see:

By viewing this videodisc, you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the End User License Agreement (EULA) found at http://www.mpaa.org/VideoEULA.htm

Passing the Digital Media Consumers' Right Act (DMCRA) would be a great victory. It allows a protection measure to be circumvented for non-infringing uses. That would be very beneficial if the protection measure has been cracked.

A better bill would make it illegal for protection measures to prevent non-infringing uses.

 

[Aaron_Brez]

I'm opposed to that, actually; you're effectively making all content protection measures illegal, as how can a protection method know if the user is of evil intent or not? I don't agree that the industry must be forced to stop protecting its content technologically, I just don't think that we, the people, should be forced to wear kid gloves in dealing with it. Let the gloves come off!

 

[FrancisP]

Consumers should have full use of their property as long as
it is for their personal use. If Hollywood doesn't like that then let them walk away from $40 billion. A protection measure should not be making any decisions at all. The
firmware does not go through any board to determine if the
player should be shut down. It arbitrarily makes the decision based on what it's been told. If a person's intent is not evil then they are punished. Once a player is locked, I suspect that unlocking it will not be easy.