Success with the WAF! Suggestions Please! (1 Viewer)

[Tom Grooms]

Quote:

I have an old college buddy that prefers his Cerwin Vega Loudspeakers with 15" woofers and active EQ in the classic "V" type setting to my JMLabs 2-channel set-up. True story

 

[Bob_A]

"My theroy, all else being equal, is that it wouldnt make much sense to buy the PM 900 that can go to *cough, cough* 19Hz vs the *cough,cough* 22Hz PM 500's if I was crossing them both over at 80Hz."

Who said anything about comparing a PM900 to a PM500? You do realize that they have different drivers? And since when did anyone say that a crossover at 80Hz would be the only option? Why would Diva owners recommend the 6.1 (-3db@27Hz) over the other speakers in the lineup? You are discounting all the user input where some people have actually found that the ability of your mains to reproduce bass is important, even when used with an external sub. There is an expert at AR named Terrence (actually, the AR name is now "Terrible Terrence"), and he actually claims that the mains and even the center should ideally be able to extend down to 30-40Hz, even when used with an external sub. Maybe you should discuss with him...he can explain it better than I can.

"Nope, I have never even considered a powered speaker in my listening rooms. "

There you go...you have never even considered such a notion, yet you are so quick to definitively dismiss it for all new users.

"I have an old college buddy that prefers his Cerwin Vega Loudspeakers with 15" woofers and active EQ in the classic "V" type setting to my JMLabs 2-channel set-up."

You are talking about two entirely different speakers which were probably not even compared in the same room, and I was talking about two speakers which were compared in the same room, with the same electronics, and with the same external subwoofers used, with the only difference between the two being the addition of a built-in powered woofer.

 

[Bob_A]

Here is another thread to look at:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=50350

 

[Tom Grooms]

Bob_A, These were just my options.
Yes, I know the 500 and 900 have different drivers but I thought I had that covered with the "all else being equal". I was referring to frequency response only in the lowest octave.
And since when did anyone say that a crossover at 80Hz would be the only option? nobody said it was the only option, but I find it to be ideal in my theater and most others I visit.
Why would Diva owners recommend the 6.1 (-3db@27Hz) over the other speakers in the lineup? That is a good question, I wonder how many Diva owners bought the 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 6.1 and what ever else they make and made a honest comparison. I bet less than 1% if any at all. How could someone recommend the 6.1's if they never heard the 5.1 or 4.1's? Yet I see it all to often.
you have never even considered such a notion, yet you are so quick to definitively dismiss it for all new users. Yes I am, New users take note, Tom Grooms does not like and would never consider powered towers PERIOD.
You are talking about two entirely different speakers which were probably not even compared in the same room....True, I would never allow those boxes in my home, let alone my listening rooms. My college buddy Gary likes his set-up better because that is what he listens to daily. When he hears a more Natural and faithful to the source system like mine, he discounts it because he doesn't know what the material is suppose to sound like. Again, This is his option and he is entitled to it just as your "someone" is entitled to their's.

 

[Steve Zimmerman]

Fromt the Epistle of Bob:

Have you ever compared a powered speaker + external sub to its nonpowered equivalent + external sub? I know someone who has actually compared the former setup to the latter setup (using the matching nonpowered speaker)...and guess which setup he much preferred? The former.

I've heard you use this same anecdote on several other occasions as well, Bob. And I truly believe that you know someone who prefers powered towers to unpowered towers. What I'm not clear about is *why* this person liked the former setup:

-What is his room configuration and how big is it?

-Does he try to keep bass frequency response flat compared to the other frequencies?

-At what frequency does he cross over the subwoofer?

-What receiver does he use for powering the mains?

-What brand of subwoofer is it?

-What were his before/after SPL readings?

Without knowing this stuff, telling me that someone prefers a particular setup doesn't offer much of value to this discussion. For example, my wife honestly and truly prefers Bose speakers to the SVS/Diva combo we have in our living room. I'm serious. She wishes we had Bose instead. However, her reasons for preferring Bose are completely irrelevant to my own preferences and have nothing whatsoever to do with accurate sound reproduction.

--Steve

 

[Bob_A]

"nobody said it was the only option, but I find it to be ideal in my theater and most others I visit. "

Clearly this is not what everyone prefers, for both music and movies. The point is that there is no "right" way to do it.

"How could someone recommend the 6.1's if they never heard the 5.1 or 4.1's?"

And how can someone (like you) dismiss some quality powered speakers + external subs when you have never heard them in a comparison against their matching nonpowered equivalents?

"Yes I am, New users take note, Tom Grooms does not like and would never consider powered towers PERIOD."

How this type of statement can be in any way beneficial to a new user baffles me.

"Again, This is his option and he is entitled to it just as your "someone" is entitled to their's."

Can we not effectively recommend our favorite products without putting down other products?

"Without knowing this stuff, telling me that someone prefers a particular setup doesn't offer much of value to this discussion. "

It's just user input, you can take it or you can leave it, either choice is fine by me. There are others who have preferred powered towers + external sub(s) to nonpowered towers + external sub(s), just take a look at the two threads I referenced. If someone actually said that they preferred nonpowered towers + external sub to the matching powered towers + external sub , would you question them in such a manner? The point is that if there is even a chance that powered towers + external sub(s) will be preferrable to the matching nonpowered towers + external sub(s), then who are we to tell them that a powered speaker is not a good option?

 

[Steve_Ma]

trollin trollin trollin........

 

[Steve Zimmerman]

Bob said:

The point is that if there is even a chance that powered towers + external sub(s) will be preferrable to the matching nonpowered towers + external sub(s), then who are we to tell them that a powered speaker is not a good option?

So you can offer your opinion that powered speakers ARE a good option but I can't offer my opinion that they're NOT?

Let me state this clearly and for the record. After owning two sets of top-of-the-line Infinity Interlude powered towers myself and after extensively auditioning my neighbors BP2002s, I am of the opinion that if (1) flat frequency response is your goal and (2) you are going to buy a quality subwoofer anyway, then powered towers are NOT the most cost-effective choice.

--Steve

 

[Bob_A]

Steve, did you specifically test the powered towers WITH an external sub? Did you specifically compare the nonpowered speaker + external sub to the matching powered speaker + external sub? How can you discount powered towers until you have done such a comparison? Clearly there are people who have preferred powered speakers + external sub to bookshelf-type speakers + external sub.