Sub Recommendations for Music (1 Viewer)

[John McGee]

I was planning on the SVS CS Ultra for music and home theater but I have heard that for music, front firing subs are the way to go. I heard that downfiring subs can muddy things up by sending the waves down versus forward.
I guess I would still get an SVS sub for home theater use, but probably would have to drop down to the 20-39 if I had to buy another 2 front firing for music.
I'd be interested to hear what SVS-Ron or Tom have to say about the merits of down-firing versus front firing subs for music. Is what I heard correct? Is it a big difference in what you hear musically?
If front firing is the way to go for music, what would you recommend? What do you think of the Adire Audio Dharman or Rava for music? How would these compare to the SVS 20-39 for instance? I know there are some HTF'ers that have used the Rava and now use SVS, what are your feelings about these subs for music?
------------------

 

[Chip E]

Well, i used to use a JBL 150 watt-10" mudbox-front firing woofer for HT & music... now, i use a SVS 20-39PC for both.. It performs excellent for both. Better than i ever thought it would.
- Chip
------------------

 

[Jack Gilvey]

quote: I heard that downfiring subs can muddy things up by sending the waves down versus forward. [/quote]
A quick glance at any of the unanimously positive SVS reviews will show how untrue this is.
What is your budget?
If I were using a sub purely for music, I think I'd go with a sealed design. The Rava is the best "value" I know of in powered subwoofers, and is actually a quite good ht performer in a medium room. If your program material (whether music or movies) contains appreciable information below 25Hz or so, though, you'd be better served by a 20-39 or the Dharman.
Since you are considering an Ultra, though, I would go that route without looking back. No doubt.
[Edited last by Jack Gilvey on August 01, 2001 at 09:40 PM]

 

[Mario_C]

The ACI Titan II, REL Strata III, Rel Storm III, and Vandersteen 2WQ are consider by many as the best for music. These subs are all downfiring. The Bag End InfraSub-18 (front firing) is also mentioned a lot. I havent heard any of them but I been following similar topics like this, and these subs get mentioned all the time. Read the reviews in audioreview and decide for yourself if a downfiring sub is god for music.
ACI Titan II http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/s...ct_48258.shtml
http://www.audioc.com
REL Strata III http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/s...uct_8293.shtml
http://rel.net/
REL Storm III http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/s...ct_24693.shtml
http://rel.net/
Vandersteen 2WQ http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/s...uct_8547.shtml
http://www.vandersteen.com/
Bag End InfraSub-18 http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/s...uct_6897.shtml
http://www.bagend.com
These are the subs I am considering for a 2 channel, music only system.
------------------
Link Removed
[Edited last by Mario_C on August 01, 2001 at 10:01 PM]

 

[dougW]

Musically speaking, you will want to give REL subwoofers distributed by Sumiko (US) a try. Not huge on output as an SVS for theater, but for music, long revered as one of the best. That's not to say an SVS can't perform musically. I personally have no experience to draw on in that area.
Generally, retailers of Sonus faber also offer REL, as Sf is another Sumiko distributed product.
Regards,
Lex
------------------
Lexman's Theater

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>I was planning on the SVS CS Ultra for music and home theater but I have heard that for music, front firing subs are the way to go. I heard that downfiring subs can muddy things up by sending the waves down versus forward.
I guess I would still get an SVS sub for home theater use, but probably would have to drop down to the 20-39 if I had to buy another 2 front firing for music.>I'd be interested to hear what SVS-Ron or Tom have to say about the merits of down-firing versus front firing subs for music. Is what I heard correct? Is it a big difference in what you hear musically?

 

[John McGee]

Thanks for the replies. It appears that the Rava or Dharman have higher q's than the SVS's, which would mean that the SVS's are more "musical" then.
SVS-Tom - I was already sold on the SVS 20-39PC for home theater use, I just needed convincing for music use that these would work just as well. Other forum threads led me to FF subs for music based on comments that you won't find musicians using down firing subs for bass amps for instance.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>SVS-Tom - I was already sold on the SVS 20-39PC for home theater use, I just needed convincing for music use that these would work just as well. Other forum threads led me to FF subs for music based on comments that you won't find musicians using down firing subs for bass amps for instance.

 

[Brian Bunge]

While I haven't heard the Titan II or the REL subs I will say that many people who have auditioned both actually preferred the Titan II. One reason is they just plain thought the Titan integrated better. Another reason is that I believe it's roughly about half the price of the REL subs.
Brian
------------------

 

[John McGee]

SVS-Tom: I have no idea what frequencies a bass amp may try to reproduce, I am not a musician, the only instrument I play is the radio! You guys must get tired of answering the same or similiar questions all of the time; I just found a thread talking about the same thing towards the end of July. Thanks for replying anyway though.

 

[DanWiggins]

Well, that's not quite accurate. Dharman measures as a 4th order Q=0.577 Fc=20 Hz filter function, so it's low Q (Bessel, to be precise).
Additionally Rava, while a Qtc=0.67, is second order, so the group delay is even lower than the lower Q higher order boxes (like the vented units). In general, sealed boxes will sound tighter and more "musical" than vented designs, mainly because of the lower order nature of the design.
Actually, I'm quite surprised that SVS' Qs are as low as posted above. I thought Tom advocated designing for as low and flat of bass as possible, and a Qtc of 0.707 would be the better alignment choice for such a layout. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe we went around many times on the point of low Q designs (my preferred approach) versus "designed for maximally flat" designs.
Perhaps Tom has changed his design approach, however...
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
------------------

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Perhaps Tom has changed his design approach, however...

 

[John Morris]

John: If you have the available $1100, go with your first plan and get the SVS Ultra. I have had mine for almost a few weeks now and I am still being impressed every day. Previously, I owned M&K subwoofers and always loved them for their musicality and fast, clean output. The Ultra trumphs them all and adds the benefit of high output too! Anyway, if I were you I'd get the Ultra... you'll be glad you did!
------------------
Take Care,
merc

 

[John McGee]

Dan, SVS-Tom: I don't understand what all of the symbols (Qtc) mean and how those relate to the subwoofers performance. I don't know how the second order affects the performance either. I didn't want a pissing contest, I was trying to be an informed consumer; trying to learn what would my best buy for home theater and music applications, whether that would be 1 doing everything, 2 used as L/R stereo subs, or both of the preceding.
Merc: Thanks for the reply, I know from other threads you spent alot of time deciding what to do. I'm glad you are enjoying your sub and it performs better than your M&K.
This will be my first sub! My old pro-logic receiver does not even have a sub or LFE out so I need to decide on a good pre/pro also.
I think with the new news about Norhs marble subs may sway my decision to only getting 1 sub for HT for now, whether the 20-39 to start saving money for the marble or go for the CS-Ultra!?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

quote: I don't understand what all of the symbols (Qtc) mean and how those relate to the subwoofers performance. I don't know how the second order affects the performance either. [/quote]
Yeah, it gets a little involved. Suffice it to say, there is no actual Qtc for a vented sub, the term is used to describe the rolloff characteristic of a vented sub that best matches the response curve of a sealed (second order) of the given Qtc. The numbers can't be directly compared (between sealed and vented), meaning they won't necessarily sound the same.
On your second point, a second order sub generally has better transient performance than a fourth-order one.
If it is at all within your budget, and DIY is not an option, then an Ultra is the only choice I see for a music/ht sub.
[Edited last by Jack Gilvey on August 03, 2001 at 08:12 AM]

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Also, to give you an idea of what the curves look like, a Qtc of 0.5, or "critically damped", is -6db at resonance, Fc. A Qtc of .707, or "maximally flat", is -3db at Fc.
I don't know if, when applying a "Q" description to a vented box, the Fc in preceding statement would be replaced with Fb. Or if the curve is just "eyeballed" for a match. I tend to think the latter is the case, as a vented sub's rolloff below Fb is much steeper.