Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread (2 Viewers)

[RickER]

My vote for post of the week. I love it Zack!

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Zach Gibbs wrote (post #79):



Well, [whoopty-doo] for you! :rolleyes

Conan O'Brien just last night (6/10/'08) introduced a completely new character on his Late Night program that, according to him, is his show's contribution to NBC-Universal's marketing attempt to tie watching its programming to feelings of American "patriotism": "the obese bald eagle who drives a [gas-guzzling] hummer he bought with money he raised against his foreclosed house".

If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

I'm just about caught up.

(a) Some characters:

Wesley:

Nelson Au wrote (post #1):


Quote:



Where No One has Gone Before was interesting in that it sets-up Wesley as a special person. I liked this episode, it sets into motion Wesley getting the attention his abilities warranted and marks Picard's change of character from a guy who hates kids to someone with more affinity for kids in later seasons. I know a lot of people hated Wesley because he always saved the day, but he didn't do it that often.





"A lot of people hated Wesley" because he got unreälistic amounts of attention and undeserved amounts of screen time, and the writers portrayed the adult cast members as know-nothing fools by comparison, the typical godawful Lucas/Spielberg "kid-centricity". Awful.

Ockeghem wrote (post #6):


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And I personally have no problem with Wesley. I just keep in mind why Gene wanted him in the show, and why he was named 'Wesley.'





Ego and self-importance? Greed? "Insurance"?


Picard:


Quote:



But . . . [Picard] . . . seems to change the most in my mind as he's so loosey goosy in the beginning.






"loosy-goosy"? Picard?!?!? Do you actually know what that word means???


Riker:



Quote:



One of my best friends has maintained for years that when TNG came along, they somehow had to fill some huge shoes, especially with regard to how they were going to replace Spock. He believes that they did this successfully, but that it took two characters to do it: Commander Riker and Lt. Commander Data. I tend to see this as well. I may elaborate on this a bit later.





Riker??? Yeah, I'd like to see/hear that explanation. Please share.


Worf:

Stephen_L wrote (post #17):


Quote:



Initially all the characters seemed bland, uniformly nice and noble. Worf with his aggressive, violent disposition stood out early on and was a welcome relief from all the niceness.





Originally he was supposed to be a recurring, but nonregular character.


(b) Some episodes:

(post #1):


Quote:



Home soil is a strong episode too, a modern version of Devil in the Dark. Sure the micro computer's use of "ugly bags of mostly water" was lame dialogue, but I liked the story.





It's the story that's lame. At least the dialog indicates the aliens don't want to have sex with "boobilicious blond babes", unlike so many of Hollywood's knuckleheaded creätions.

(post #6):


Quote:



Notable line. . .[from "Where No One Has Gone Before"]:

"That space ... and time ... and thought ... aren't the separate things they appear to be?" (Wesley). This is a profound line, and it's interesting to see the reaction of the Traveler to these words. His emotions become relatively agitated, and for one brief moment, he appears to be on the verge of becoming angry. He is quick to suggest that Wesley never repeat this idea to anyone.





Too bad 20th-century quantum theory had already beaten them all to this "profundity" four centuries earlier, even though the writers here pretend that this "revelation"---to the extent that it is even valid---is new to 24th-century man.

(post #26):


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Where Silence Has Lease was a bit goofy, though interesting idea for an alien to turn the tables and test humans to learn about them. The only good line was Nagilum asking Dr. Polaski to demonstrate how humans reproduce.





A darn good idea, in fact: a deathless alien that experiments on mortal beings in order to understand the phenomenon of death. Not "goofy" in the least, just that bad ol' "science-thingy" some of you "fans" seem to have so much trouble with.


Quote:



The only good line was Nagilum asking Dr. Polaski to demonstrate how humans reproduce.





Not the only good line!


Quote:



Elementary Dear Data shows us Data's further fascination with Sherlock Holmes. This was interesting as it explores the idea of a Holodeck character coming to life.

It is a surprise that the Holodeck computer can create a holographic Moriarty that can challenge Data in a new mystery and the character becomes aware in order to do so. I would think the Holodeck designers would make a safeguard against that too!





Reportedly, they did make such a restriction, but the writers ignored it almost from the beginning.


Quote:



I found A Matter of Honor more fun. Of course it introduced us to Gagh! And more about the Klingons was shown, I like that they are portrayed like humans are, . . .





Aha! Nonalien aliens, a "science-fiction fan" favorite.


(post #36):


Quote:



. . . Identity Crisis was IMO a phenomenal episode when it first aired. For me, it has a very The Outer Limits feel to it. . . . It was chilling, . . .





Almost a "creep classic". ([Pssst!] Brannon Braga wrote the teleplay.)


(post #65):


Quote:



But Clues was a really cool idea. It is revealed that Data is hiding the truth of why the Enterprise lost 24 hours and as a mystery, the crew does what it can to figure out the cause. And it all points to Data. But turns out the Enterprise accidentally discover a hidden planet whose inhabitants will do anything to stay hidden, including destroying the Enterprise. Picard order's Data to hide all evidence and never reveal the incident. Really well done show and resolution!





A very good episode, almost completely spoiled by the resolution, which pretty much undercuts all that went before it. No way will I ever buy that a truly "xenophobic" race that wanted to keep its very existence hidden from all other intelligences would risk being revealed by letting anyone---any intelligent being---or anything bearing such information go free. Just wouldn't happen. No way!


(post #65):


Quote:



Galaxy's Child is another one of my favorite's . . . . Another nice and sweet ending, the baby goes off to join a group of it's life form before they attack the Enterprise . . . .





More silliness. Picard almost lets his whole crew be killed over this stupid "noblesse oblige" crap. Unbelievable. I wouldn't want 'im as my captain.

(post #65):


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. . . Half a Life and Night Terrors. I remember them as weak ep





"Night Terrors"; great idea, less than perfect execution.

RickER wrote (post #20):


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. . . my vote for worst...toss-up between MASKS, and the one where everyone de-evolves ["Genesis"]. Hated both. As a matter of fact i would sit through Spock's Brain or The Way to Eden for the rest of my life, before id watch either of those 1 more time.






Dave Scarpa wrote (post #41):


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I actually grew tired of "Possessed Data" Because Spiner could only play it like Lore everytime, so it just became awful Dull.

The Worst example of "{PossesedData}" was the 7th Season Stinker MASKS. I could barely sit thru that one the first time, I usually skip it by choice.





Why, gentlemen? Why?


(c) Some corrections:

(post #1)


Quote:



[In "Arsenal of Freedom"] Geordi and the green crew prevail!





[ahem!] That's the brown crew!


Quote:



. . . it is true as a poster pounted out in the TOS thread, the Ron Jones scores are very emotional, but they're right too for the stories.






Uh, that (I think) was (me paraphrasing) Ron Jones paraphrasing Rick Berman ("Does the music have to be so, [um], . . . emotional?").


Quote:



Too bad he left.






[ahem!] He was fired!


Lou Sytsma wrote (post #19):


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I realize they wanted to distance themselves from obviously copying the dynamics of the original crew, especially on the bridge scenes, but the lack of a dedicated science officer on the bridge for an exploration vessel is something that never sat well with me and one which I feel was a bad decision and omission for the TNG series. They might as well have called a spade a spade and made Data the science officer anyway as he fulfilled that function far more than he ever did in his designated role as navigator.






I think you've got that backwards. A real chief science officer would in all probability not be spending most of his on-duty time on the bridge. That's just an artifice of Hollywood scriptwriting and staging that has him (or the chief medical officer or the chief engineer, for that matter) stationed there.


Sam Favate wrote (post #5):


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I am also not a fan of Brannon Braga and his overuse of the "what is reality?" storyline.





Oh, you mean like, "(ontological-existential) science fiction", instead of comedy, politics, or warm family get-togethers in space? (All sarcasm aside, the Twilight Zone pastiche "Frame of Mind", with its blue and gray scenery recalling the old crisp black and white tv, truly didn't work. However, if you try something different, you may indeed flunk. "C'est la vie!")


Quote:



IMO, the combination of Taylor and Braga significantly weakened the show in its final seasons . . . .






You've probably got that half-right.


Quote:



. . . the show . . . is among the very best science fiction shows ever on TV.





For once we agree (sort of). But that was partly due to, not despite, Brannon Braga (before he took the walk on the "trite side", that is).


Quote:



Sadly, the movies didn't live up to the show. While I enjoyed First Contact (despite its continuity flaws), the other TNG movies are among the worst of all Star Trek films, particularly Nemesis. The film division never did right by such a great show.





After ST:TMP, Paramount turned over the making of the films to the television division to keep the budgets down. Only with the split of CBS from Viacom proper does the tv division go to another company (separate, yet owned by the same "moghul", Sumner Redstone), and the handing over of "the Franchise" to Paramount's movie division come again into play. All those earlier movies in the series that you're talking about were made by the television division of Paramount Studios, except the first, ST: TMP.

(d) Some general comments:

(post #18):


Quote:



Incidentally, I agree about the aliens, too. But I think the Ferengi had more of an edge (relatively speaking) in the first season of TNG than they had later. I have no idea why, though.





That's because the producers made a conscious decision to reïntroduce the Romulans and the Klingons as threats and to reduce the Ferengi to sideline quasi-villains. They didn't know how to get past the "Keystone Cop"-antics of the Ferengis' first appearance and didn't dare play up the original sexual angle that Roddenberry apparently had had in mind for them. (This is supposed to be "family programming", after all.) The Ferengis' fatal flaw as villains was supposed to be their unethical capitalism ("What is 'Yankee trader'?"), but that didn't go down at all well near the end of the "go-go! Greed-is-good!" Reagan era. So, as usual, it was "back to the future" for the producers.

Gary Seven wrote (post #22):


Quote:



For me, TNG was a natural extension of TOS. While others complain of the first two seasons, I felt those were more like Star Trek than the subsequent seasons following. It was the first two seasons that actually had the crew of the Enterprise EXPLORE the majority of the time. Later the crew acted more as policemen rather then explorers. In fact, later on they really did very little exploring.






The producers had a fundamental problem in that they cast the Enterprise-D as both an exploratory vessel and as the "flagship of the Federation". These functions were fundamentally incompatible. In general, you don't send your "flagship" into unknown territory to do scientific exploration.


Quote:



Ironically enough, it was the first two seasons that actually showed the imperfections of the crew and their personal hell they went through.





Do you mean simply that there were more personal stories in those two seasons and fewer later? Please elaborate.


(post #28):


Quote:



I agree with what you have written, especially . . . "That doesn't mean it's bad." For my own part, I do not see it in any way as being a problem. I was very happy to see it being a 'retread' of TOS. I am a hardcore fan of Trek (have been for over forty years); as such, pleasing my kind, if you will, was in part of paramount [

] importance to TPTB.






Very telling.


Bryan^H wrote (post #15):


Quote:



. . . Enterprise kind of grows on you if you give it a chance.





So does fungus.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

That was from Nemesis. The dialogue (from those whom were eventually revealed as the 'cult-like' group) was quite imaginative. The writers probably had a lot of fun with that one.

 

[RickER]

The 4th season of Enterprise is pretty good Rex, it doesnt even have to grow on you. Its real Trek, something that IMO had been lacking for a few years. Not to put any hate on other shows that have the title Trek in them. well, maybe a little hate for seasons 1-3 of Enterprise.

The first time i ever saw Yesterdays Enterprise i missed the first 5 or 10 minutes. I didnt know what was going on, and couldnt have been more lost. I did like the uniforms, however!

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Great posts and thoughts everyone. I enjoy reading them. I'm not inclined to rewatch any TNG episodes so can only remark in generalities.

Rex your point about having the senior officers such as the ones for science and engineering on the bridge as a Hollywood artifice is one I would like to examine further.

For dramatic purposes it does make things easier to have the main cast members together but there are also practical advantages of having the main officers together in one physical location. There is no replacement for face to face communication in my experience.

The lack of a dedicated science officer on the bridge of the TNG Enterprise always marked the major difference between the dynamics of the TOS and TNG Enterprise's purposes. The original Enterprise was manned for exploration and discovery whereas the TNG Enterprise was geared towards diplomatic negotiations. Very telling.

 

[Ockeghem]

Wow Rick. That must have been disconcerting, to say the least. The first time I saw it, I could not figure out the time-frame until they informed the viewer. Sure, I knew something had happened, but I wasn't sure what it was.

I liked seeing Yar again; I didn't particularly enjoy her departure in Skin of Evil, even though it was penned by Stefano. I also thought the Castillo-Yar relationship was interesting, and (had it continued), showed some promise. And Guinan was as usual provocative.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

I don't think it was really ever that bad though. Spock was the science officer but he was also the XO. There are limited stations for Engineering but most of the time the Engineers could actually be found in Engineering. The doctors just hung out on the bridge occasionally, McCoy didn't even get a seat.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Lou Sytsma wrote (post # 86):


Well, that's one opinion. Another---mine---is that the fourth season of Enterprise strains in its own tedious, epigonal way at smothering itself in Trek legacy as the preceding ones had, under different producers, strained to distance themselves from it. Your "real Trek" adds up to tons of Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, and the like; in other words, the same old same-old, which adds up to just SOSO, in my book.

 

[Ric Easton]

I am very late to this thread, but wanted to join in with my thoughts and memories as well.

I remember being very excited and nervous about the new Next Generation. Would it be any good? Would Star Trek without Kirk and crew suck? Would it even be Star Trek? I had been a Star Trek fan since the early seventies and knew many of the episodes by heart. I used to actually record the audio from them onto cassette. Surprisingly, many of them made fine radio dramas!

Anyway, besides having a few Trek adventures on the big screen, it was great knowing that we were about to get new stories on a weekly basis for however long it would last. Who knew? Maybe it would only go for one season... or even less! I made sure, I was recording them again for posterity. This time on videotape.

My roommate at the time was also a big Trek fan, so there we sat watching the two hour pilot unfold. For the most part, we were pretty happy with it. Although, at first I couldn't resist mentally super-imposing my beloved characters over Picard, Data and so on. Thinking... is this how Kirk and Spock would handle it? It probably didn't help things that Q seemed to be at least inspired by Trelane. As the season unfolded, I got much more comfortable with this new ship and crew. Sure, that first season had plenty of rough spots. I think Wesley wore out his welcome with us pretty fast. He was making the adults look like morons.

But Star Trek was back. And I was on board for as long as it would last.

Back to the recording of the show... My roommate and I both worked at a TV station in the News dept. I was a photog and he was the weekend Sports guy. Our station was not broadcasting the new show... it was on one of the other affiliates. Anyway, after the first episode aired we soon discovered the satellite coordinates of the show's feed. This was like striking gold! We now could watch the episodes a week before anyone else! Soon, I was re-editing them to cut out the commercials. Each feed would also have different mixes of various lengths of the teasers for upcoming episodes. I saved it all!

In December of '87, I got another job at another station, in a different part of the country. I missed watching the show with my buddy, but we still kept in touch and often discussed the episodes. We kept waiting for the day where Worf would smarten up and throw Wes out an airlock! No offense Wil Wheaton, we didn't have anything against you personally, really!

TNG's greatest time for me was the 3rd and 4th seasons, the show had really come into its own and it's two part Borg episode (man, that was a long summer!) and "Family" which followed it were my favorite episodes. I was so glad that they decided to do an epilogue of sorts to what had been such a major storyline for Picard. It really added depth to his character and to the show.

When I recorded "Best of Both Worlds" I edited it into a (mostly) seamless 92 minute (without commercials) movie. When Riker ordered "Fire!" at the end of part one, instead of going to black and saying "To be continued..." it went directly to the next shot in part two, as the music swelled up (from part one) and the main deflector dish was powering up and fired... It all worked really well. I cut out the main title sequence from part two. The only caveat was that after the open was done, I had to leave part two's story credits up, because they were going over the actual episode. Anyway, no one could ever tell where part one ended and the teaser from part two began.

I also did this for the other two parters, but it never worked as well as it did for BoBW. I always thought that Paramount should have released it that way at some point. And they would have been able to put all the credits in part one!

I kept recording them a week ahead of time all through TNG and DS9. When I was off or out of town, I would get someone at the station to record it for me. So, yeah, some of them knew I was a nut! I finally gave up when Voyager was the only one left and just recorded it at home. Besides, with any luck, maybe they would be releasing the shows on this new DVD technology!

Anyway, I never could have imagined in my wildest dreams that from that first season of TNG that Trek would have continued on uninterrupted for another 17 years/24 seasons. Sometimes 2 shows running concurrently! It was quite a change from those long years in the 70's with nothing but cut up versions of the classic 79 episodes.

As a whole, I think DS9 became my favorite series, mostly because of the character growth and the great big arcs. But many of my favorite Trek episodes of all time still belong to TNG.

Stewart's acting in shows like "Inner Light" and "Chain of Command" would send shivers down my spine and I often though he should have been nominated for an Emmy for his fine portrayal of Captain Picard.

Ok, I guess I've rambled on enough for now. I'll just close by saying "Live Long and Pr.." -- Um, er, I mean "Make it so!"

Okay, so TOS still had the better catch-phrases!

 

[Ockeghem]

And that music was comprised in part of what some refer to as the most dissonant of intervals, the tritone. And it was hammered and hammered in the viewers' ears as Riker began to say those famous words. Part 1 of that two-parter still remains for me the only perfect episode of TNG.

 

[RickER]

I bet many of us taped Trek onto audio cassettes. I have said before that classic Trek IS a radio drama. You almost always know whats going on, even if you never saw it. Many of the episodes i didnt see when i was a kid. I got hooked on Trek when i was about 9, in 1971. But it went off before i had seen them all. So an aunt in CA taped them for me, and sent them in the mail for birthdays, and Christmas, and so on. I heard many more than i saw, at that time.

Time sure does fly! Now its been over 20 years since TNG started! I also would video tape those, without commercials, of course!

 

[Nelson Au]

Great last couple of posts guys! Nice story Ric about taping TNG at the TV station!

I videotaped TNG, DS9 and Voyager and even Enterprise as well, though I didn't bother to stop at commerical breaks.

Regarding audio recordings, I think you probably read my older posts that I did that myself during the early to mid 70's. And today, I rip the audio and have them in my iPod! Makes for great listening in the car.

 

[Ric Easton]

And for his trouble, composer Ron Jones got the shaft shortly thereafter. A real shame since he had such memorable scores. The Borg one being the ultimate stand-out.

 

[Ockeghem]

Ric,

Yes, definitely one of the stand-outs. BTW, there was a thread (maybe it was this one earlier on?) in which a few posters were posting a lot of useful information on the shafting of Ron Jones.

Speaking of audio recordings of episodes--

Does anyone here listen to any of the Trek episodes, films, or novels on cassette? I have a couple from four or five of the series. Some of my favorites are Envoy, Relics, and The 34th Rule; I also like the ones with Sulu doing much of the narration (the Captain Sulu adventures).

 

[Ric Easton]

Scott,

I've listened to several of the novel adaptations, Best Destiny, Dark Mirror, Probe and Sarek to name a few. My problem is that they are always abridged to about 3 hours. I'd like to hear the whole story. I also listened to one or two of the Sulu adventures (which I believe were audio originals).

I've always been a fan of the audio format. I download unabridged books to my iPod via Audible.com and listen to them on the way to work and on my bike. They are life-savers on long trips. And they are fairly inexpensive thru audible's various plans.

I've also loved radio dramas. The BBC's Lord of the Rings, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and NPR's Star Wars were all exceptional. I wish they would make more. I've also listened to some of the Big Finish Doctor Who Adventures.

I remember thinking during that long period between the TOS series and the movies that it wouldn't cost anything to make radio dramas and give us new stories. When I was a kid, I used to take the music and sound effects from those old Trek audio recordings and make my own Star Trek radio dramas... with me as Captain Kirk, of course.

How's that for nerdy?

I now return you the the Next Generation appreciation thread....

 

[Ockeghem]

To quote Galt, "Admirable Chekov. Admirable."

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Going off track on the audio book front. I highly recommend Stephen King's reading for Bag of Bones. He really brings the story to life. One of my favs.

Sorry for the diverge.

I refuse to listen to abridged versions of any book.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lou,

Thanks for the recommendation. My eldest son (he is sixteen) is currently reading Pet Semetary. He loves the work of King; over the past month, he has read three or four books of his. Of course, he prefers Rex Bachmann.

Incidentally (and keeping it somewhat on track

), I own the audio version of Relics, a novel by Michael Jan Friedman, and read by James Doohan. I will need to listen to this again soon now! In fact, that's on my menu for tomorrow morning as a result of the recent posts in this thread.

 

[Sam Favate]

It dawned on me last night as I was watching Babylon 5 that one of the refreshing things about TNG was that, unlike other modern-day science fiction shows like DS9, B5 or even Battlestar, it wasn't about war. Sure, war is great for conflict and drama, and we've seen the brink of war many times in TNG (and TOS), and I would even say it was refreshing at the time that DS9 commited to doing a full-scale war, but now, with three major shows concentrating on battles and enemies, etc., it sure would be nice to revisit the exploration Gene Roddenberry envisioned.