Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

[TJPC]

I absolutely hated this shot, to the point I just stopped watching the episode. There is no way there is that much hollow space on these starships, it was the dumbest shot I’ve ever seen in Trek. It reminded me of the airport conveyor belt scene from Toy Story 2. I obsess over the ship designs in Trek and there is just no way to explain that much unused, empty space in canon without the ships being ridiculously huge. Some fans hated the size of the ships in the reboot films, well this ship would have to be miles long to have that much unused hollow space.

Yes, I’m overreacting but, it just upset me and proves that they don’t even care about getting things right on this show. Just make it look cool.


Most of you are saying the episode was really good so, of course, I’ll go back and watch it again. I’ll just close my eyes when that shot comes up. I don’t know why it upset me so much, maybe I was already in a bad mood.

 

[Carabimero]

proves that they don’t even care about getting things right on this show. Just make it look cool.

Yes, you just articulated a big part of my resentment of DSC, my belief the show runners are standing on the shoulders of giants and not being respectful about it. A big part of what I resent about this show (mostly season one but as demonstrated here it's cropping up in season two) is that it doesn't have to make sense as long as it looks cool. And I submit this doesn't even look cool. It just looks dumb.

When I think about the caring way Roddenberry took pains to show us how the Enterprise worked and how it was all connected, I resent seeing stuff like this.

As Josh Dial points out in his excellent post (#2027), some actors care about the material; some cinematographers care about the material. So far I believe the writers of season two largely, if not completely, care about the legacy and material. But as this business with the turbo lift (and elsewhere) demonstrates, we're not (yet) seeing a unified vision of respect. There's still a cavalier arrogance to it.

 

[Chris Will]

Yep, completely agree. Let’s not even get started on the silly launch tube for those pod ships. 14 second shot of them launching at a high rate of speed, which is probably long enough to circle the entire ship. Where are they hiding that on the ship? Of course, probably in all that empty space between turbo lift shafts.

 

[Carabimero]

One of my big resentments of season one was the snubbing of Mike Okuda as a consultant to Star Trek history and the timeline. I knew when he was snubbled, season one was in trouble.

I was just talking about respect from the show runners of DSC. I don't know how you can show anymore respect than this. Look closely at one of Pike's awards: The Okuda Award!

Now this is what I'm talking about. Respect for the giants upon whose shoulders they are standing on. I'm hoping this is a step in healing some very open and still raw wounds inflicted by the arrogance of the season one show runners (The Okudas don't even have CBS All Access). Here's hoping some fences are mended with this gesture of respect and that Star Trek grows stronger because of it.

Let's go season two!

 

[Doug Wallen]

Well, after buying the bluray of season 1 and enjoying it for what it was, I was not sure how I would feel about season 2. I read the comments after the second season premiere. After reading the various opinions from the learned Trek scholars, I took the plunge and signed up for All Access.

With some hesitation I viewed the opener - "Brother".

This felt like more of what I expected when a new series was announced. Some aspects still bother me (turbolift and the miles long launch sequence - rollercoaster ride), but the main story was intriguing. I have a much more positive feeling to this beginning than I did during the original pilot. I hope this feeling lasts.

 

[John*Wells]

I reversed course and purchased season One on dvd. I admit I might have to watch the whole season twice before I get a grip on what they are doing

 

[Carabimero]

When Abrams rebooted STAR WARS he personally called Ben Burtt and asked him to mix Rey's flashback scene. Not only was it a gesture of respect, but one of goodwill between the old guard and the new guard.

When the show runners who were tasked with rebooting Star Trek for CBS got the gig, they did not reach out to the old guard with even a show of respect, but snubbed them. The result was not good. Now I see this gesture toward Okuda that warms my heart. Perhaps it's an olive branch, a first step between the new guard and the old guard to repair the damage left by the arrogance of the first season show runners.

It's nice to see actors, cinematographers, and writers respect the giants upon whose shoulders they stand. But IMO until the people who made Star Trek what it is are respected (and there is no one I'd rather start with than Mike Okuda), the tone of the show won't change much. Sometimes improved relationships behind the scenes improve a show more than anything.

I hope the creators of the new Star Trek will take a lesson from the noble ideas of the original creator of Star Trek. May this be a first step in the old and new guards coming together, finding strength in their diversity, and making the franchise we all love all the better for it.

 

[Clinton McClure]

While I thought Brother was better than the entire first season combined, I’m still not sold. I still feel like I’m watching Battlestar Galactica and not Star Trek. It’s the same feeling I got watching Abrams’ Star Trek and Star Wars reboots... they felt like anything but what they were intended to be. I have three more episodes before my CBS sub is up to renew for another month so I get to see a little more before deciding if I’ll pull the plug.

 

[Jason_V]

This felt like more of what I expected when a new series was announced. Some aspects still bother me (turbolift and the miles long launch sequence - rollercoaster ride), but the main story was intriguing. I have a much more positive feeling to this beginning than I did during the original pilot. I hope this feeling lasts.

It's kinda funny: in the moment watching the episode last week, I went "huh" and moved past that exterior shot. There really isn't a good explanation for it, except it "looked cool."

I had a problem with the crewmember with an early version of a VISOR. Part of me insisted Geordi had the first-ever VISOR and my mind stuck on that fact. However, I can't think of anything in canon to support that, so the ST VISOR is slowly growing in me.

 

[Josh Dial]

I hope the creators of the new Star Trek will take a lesson from the noble ideas of the original creator of Star Trek. May this be a first step in the old and new guards coming together, finding strength in their diversity, and making the franchise we all love all the better for it.

Here's a nice piece from Discovery's Twitter feed about Sonequa Martin-Green and Nichelle Nichols:

https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/1087360417486168064

Alan: You'll be pleased to see that SMG literally says she's standing on NN's shoulders

 

[Nelson Au]

Josh, that’s a nice post from Sonequa. . I think Nichelle has been very influential for a lot of people. I remember the days when she used to help NASA and promote more people of color and females to consider a career in NASA.

I’ve heard the story about MLK many times when she would tell that at conventions. But the first time I heard it, it was really amazing to hear it and how that connection made such a difference in her life, for Star Trek and for so many people.

 

[Nelson Au]

I read a review on Mashable of the season premiere. I hate to give some of you guys more gas to throw on the fire, but the review mentions and addresses some of the criticisms of the series. One criticism is one Kurtzman himself admits to. He loved Star Wars as a kid and that he loves that shot of Luke staring off at the two suns on the horizon of Tatooine. He said that spoke to him and gave him a sense of wonder that Star Trek doesn’t do for him. So as part of the effort to attract a new audience, he wants to try to give the audience that sense of wonder, of what the new Star Wars is doing. Which I have to say is a problem. I know what you’re thinking, he doesn’t get it, he doesn’t get Star Trek. I’d have to hope that after all those years of working with Roberto Orci, some of his Star Trek knowledge would have rubbed off on him. So maybe the quote in the interviews with Kurtzman is out of context. The article did mention the first season was confused as it wasn’t sure if it was about a war with the Klingons, or about a parallel universe or like Star Wars with its Emporer.

Star Trek is always the thinking man’s series. It’s about ideas and addressing current events and societal issues. The action and adventure is the shell from which it tells the stories. So at its best, it nicely combines the action with the ideas that surface and sometimes without you realizing it. Let see how the new season goes. So far, it seems to be trying to do what Star Trek did best.

I re-viewed the season premiere last night. As far as the turbolift shot goes, this time I could see it wasn’t as loosey goosie as it appeared as the track was fairly rectilinear. In an earlier shot, when Pike and Burnham, Saru and the others are walking down the corridor, one of them comments about where Starfleet spends its pennies and Pike comments not to covet another's Starship. That was preceded by a shot of the overhead clear ceiling and the shot of the worker bee ships appearing to be outside servicing the ship. But then the shot of the turbolift appears to be in that same area the worker bees are. So maybe the inside of the ship’s workings are what we are seeing in both shots. ( last season though it was established that some of corridors that connect the inner saucer to the outer ring of the saucer does have a connecting tube with a clear ceiling. ). This epsode does imply a lot of space inside and that shot was. It looking outside the ship. It’s a bit sylized to me still and trying to give that visual sense Kurtzman wants to give the audience.

 

[Jason_V]

I don't have a problem with trying to capture the wonder. There are tons of ways to do that. Here's the problem, though: Star Wars came out in 1977 when our collective consciousness hadn't experienced all the things we've experienced as of today. We were thrilled with models being photographed as spaceships. We were thrilled with aliens who were just muppets or humans in make up. We're not happy with that today. Everything has to be bigger, better and more bombastic. When does that end?

The wonder of Trek has always been a great many different kinds of people working together in the future for peace. They put their differences aside for the betterment of humanity. That's where Trek is different than Wars. That quote seems to suggest to me Kurtzman is looking at surface wonder and doesn't care to dig deeper. The Saru/Burnham relationship is full of things to mine to see how these two people are working together every single day. Stamets coping with the loss of Hugh...every single day. This crew, after what they went through in S1...that's the wonder. How do they get out of bed every day? If Discovery had a 26 episode season like the more modern Trek's did, I'd like to think we'd see a full episode devoted to those things

I know that's not spectacle. I get it. But that's real. Pike correctly acknowledged what happened in S1 That's a huge step because it was so traumatic to the crew. Forget the phasers and the SFX. Let's get back to exploring the human condition and see how Federation values hold up in the face of adversity.

 

[Philip Verdieck]

There's still too much of the "whiz bang" for me, like the turbolift shaft or the journey to the asteroid, but I suspect that's a "me" problem and not a "show" problem.

No, that turboshaft scene was atrocious, impossible and stupid. It was massively out of proportion and displayed the general level of ignorance the writers and/or showrunners have previously shown and continue to display. It was literally an insane waste of space that you don't see on any show that understands the word "science" comes before "fiction". Its as if they have no science advisers to vet the scripts. Or as I suspect, they just don't care.

The same stupidity demonstrated again, with the ripoff of the BSG viper launch system.

 

[John*Wells]

So exactly what time frame is Discovery in? Pre Enterprise? Or Pre the cage ?

 

[Mark McSherry]

No, that turboshaft scene was atrocious, impossible and stupid. It was massively out of proportion and displayed the general level of ignorance the writers and/or showrunners have previously shown and continue to display. It was literally an insane waste of space that you don't see on any show that understands the word "science" comes before "fiction". Its as if they have no science advisers to vet the scripts. Or as I suspect, they just don't care.

A. E. van Vogt wrote two series of space exploration stories which are considered 'Star Trek' before STAR TREK. In the MIXED MEN stories, written during WWII, the starship was so huge that matter transmission was used to move about its interior.

 

[Carabimero]

Alan: You'll be pleased to see that SMG literally says she's standing on NN's shoulders

I did appreciate that. Thanks for the link.

What I would further appreciate is if DSC mended fences with Mike Okuda and brought him into the fold for season three. In my considered opinion, the integrity and credibility of DSC would (at the very least) double overnight if they brought him onboard. At the moment, Mr. Okuda, who worked on many iterations of Star Trek for decades, doesn't even have CBS All Access, so there is work to be done.

So exactly what time frame is Discovery in? Pre Enterprise? Or Pre the cage ?

They claim it's ten years before TOS in the Prime Universe, so I guess season two is roughly nine years before TOS in the Prime universe. If you ask me, just from watching the show itself, this claim is very unconvincing.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I realize this may not be a popular statement. And I saw this with all due respect to Mr. Okuda's contributions to Star Trek and his achievements within the genre.

He had an incredible run, putting his touches on decades of Trek material.

But the flip side of that is that, setting aside most of the original crew movies, Trek was very homogenized in its design from TNG through Enterprise in its look. There's a lot of that that made sense, in terms of both storytelling and practicality. But I also think, as we're here in the late 2010s, that it's perfectly appropriate to have a change of approach. I think it's especially justified because we're in an era of Trek that's not directly connected to the time periods where Okuda worked.

I think it would have been nice to have been more courteous about going in a different direction, but at the same time, I don't think the current producers should have felt obligated to continue using exclusively Okuda designs.

 

[Josh Dial]

One odd thing listed in Pike's award (see in Alan's screenshot above) is that he apparently won the Carrington Award. On DS9 ("Prophet Motive") we learn that it's a prestigious award in medicine, often given a sort of a lifetime achievement award. Perhaps he shared in the award as part of a contribution to research from something he discovered on a mission. Or maybe back in Pike's day, the award was given on different grounds (maybe he prevented some health disaster while on a mission).

 

[Jason_V]

One odd thing listed in Pike's award (see in Alan's screenshot above) is that he apparently won the Carrington Award. On DS9 ("Prophet Motive") we learn that it's a prestigious award in medicine, often given a sort of a lifetime achievement award. Perhaps he shared in the award as part of a contribution to research from something he discovered on a mission. Or maybe back in Pike's day, the award was given on different grounds (maybe he prevented some health disaster while on a mission).

Or maybe the producers and writers didn't know/don't care. As much as I like "Brother," I'm gonna go with the ignorance option.