>>>> Spoke to Warner Rep today concerning WONKA & CATS - here is what I was told..... (1 Viewer)

[Jerry Gracia]

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[Edited last by Jerry Gracia on August 18, 2001 at 09:56 PM]

 

[Jerry Gracia]

WARNER,
The Gracia FAMILY is very disappointed with CATS AND DOGS not having a "widescree" option on the upcoming DVD.
The Gracia FAMILY doesn't watch non-OAR movies...movies that belong in widescreen.
The Gracia FAMILY is deeply hurt.
You have made us an un-happy FAMILY, we are robbed of our home video enjoyment of CATS AND DOGS.
I'm not sure where this "survey" of yours came from that tells you that FAMILIES want P&S/full frame, but I sure never heard anything about it.
But I'll tell you what...the Gracia FAMILY will be enjoying DREAMWORKS' upcoming "SHREK" DVD...at least that disc will offer the widescreen option.
We will not be purchsing CATS AND DOGS, we don't "do" P&S/full frame when the movie doesn't belong that way.
Sorry, but you gave us no options.
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LuvLBX

 

[Antonio_M]

Oh, and another thing...LOL Phantom Menace comes out October 16th and so does Cats & Dogs...god how pathetic on the shelve Cats & Dogs is gonna look beside that great release (Phantom Menace)!

It's a great day...for FOX that is!!!

 

[Steve Owen]

I'm quite sure that Warner's genius marketing folks looked at this and said "How many sales will we loose because some of the public doesn't like black bars vs. how many sales will we loose because some of the public will only buy original aspect ratio."
It amazes me that they they thought the first number was higher than the second. If their previous marketing research had told them anything is that's people who CARE about the picture and want OAR are also people who buy TONS of DVDs. Even if they randomly sampled the public for their "study", failure to consider the volume of DVDs sold to the respectives "sides" would call their results into question.
Personally, I've got about 250 DVDs. That's actually a pretty small number compared to a lot of other enthusiasts I know. Some of my other "enthusiast" friends have similar numbers. I have some "other" friends who aren't into the theater experience like I am. Of those people I know, their collections are more like 10-20 DVDs. And I don't know ANYONE who won't buy DVDs because of the "black bars". Even those people I know watching on a 19" TV don't have a problem with OAR.
So the bottom line here is that someone in Warner's marketing department made a HUGE mistake (and should probably be fired, or at least demoted). 11,000+ people signed the petition. For everyone person that signed it, there's probably 10 that feel the same way. Can it possibly be true that there's that many people who would would instead refuse to buy the DVD because it was in widescreen? I can't possibly imagine. Yes, I'm sure there's some small number of people who actually (and ignorantly) would rather have their screen filled. But I can't for the life of me imagine that sales lost to that crowd can possibly equal anything near the sales that are about to be lost to people like us.
Until Warner starts treating the movies in their care with the respect they deserve, I will no longer do business with them. I have canceled ALL pre-orders I have on Warner titles regardless of aspect ratio. I can not stand the idea of giving this company ANY of my money at this point (which as far as DVDs go, isn't all that painful as their DVD product as of late has been fairly pathetic).
One day I hope that Warner will wake up and realize that they are the curators of this art. If they don't want the responsibility that comes with that job, they they should pass these titles to someone who cares.
-Steve
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Link Removed Home Theater Gear

 

[Jim_C]

Warner, There are more of us than you think. We are not insignificant and we DO matter.
No OAR = No Sale
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You want to upgrade again?!!

 

[Robert Drew]

Once again, thanks to Ron for contacting Warner and getting us an updated statement on their position. I'm encouraged that they are at least aware of the furor generated over the Wonka disc and are possibly considering a remedy. I think sales figures will show that they need one.
On the off-hand chance that someone of importance at Warner has persevered all the way through to my post, here are my thoughts on the matter:
The Threat of Lost Sales
I'm guessing that Warner's rationale for releasing P&S family titles goes along the lines of "market research indicates that family buyers prefer P&S because it fills the whole screen." Hence, Warner is afraid that it will lose sales if titles are released in WS rather than P&S. This is admittedly a fair concern.
A key point to be considered here, however, is whether the stated consumer preference for P&S is actually strong enough to result in lost sales, or is really just a by-product of the current, painful transition to WS in the US (i.e. - HDTV). Personally, I don't know a single family that would refuse to buy (or rent) a video for their kids simply because of the aspect ratio. Sure, some might complain a bit, but they'll still buy it. Has Warner considered this possibility in its market research?
On the other hand, I know many adult viewers and film buffs who adamantly refuse to buy (or even watch) any title that is not OAR (or anamophic OAR for that matter). These people represent actual lost sales which can be verified through cancelled pre-orders and lowered sales figures, not to mention the outcries generated in forums and discussion boards throughout the net. Consider also, that this same group of enthusiasts does more effective word of mouth marketing to friends and family than Warner could ever hope to buy. Is this really a group that Warner wants to alienate?
A Solution
Assuming that Warner's main concern is lost sales, why not return to the practice of dual releases: P&S on one side, anamorphic WS on the other? That way, everyone gets what they want: both groups of consumers are happy, and Warner knows it hasn't lost any sales. In addition, family viewers get the choice of P&S or WS depending on their equipment and preference. I realize that this solution would cause an increase in production costs, but wouldn't that be offset by the increased total sales volume? As many have stated before me, I think this would be a very workable solution and would like to hear a response from Warner regarding dual releases. Hopefully this forum discussion will contribute to a workable solution for all parties involved. Thank you for your time in considering this proposal.

 

[Jim Tudor]

This has probably already been stated in the six+ pages of this, but why not just release two versions of these titles, WB? Other studios do it (wasn't "Stuart Little" available both ways?), and in the old days of the letterbox-VHS boom (mid-to late ninties), there were multiple tapes available of many, many titles. WB, just save yourself & us the frustration, and do these titles both ways. Everyone wins. (At least until all those P&S lovers buy 16:9 TVs...)
JiM T

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

As I've literally just gotten back from vacation, I'm stunned to learn that not only has the Willy Wonka debacle not been solved, but that the situation has worsened with the addition of Cats & Dogs, a current 2001 release, to the pan-and-scan/open matte ranks.
I wrote a letter directly to Mr. Lieberfarb and have neither the energy nor the determination to reprint it here, particularly as so many others have been more eloquent than I in defense of OAR presentations.
Suffice it to say, OAR is the reason I got into laserdisc back in 1994 and it's what fuels my DVD jones today-- if I wanted to see a film that "filled up my screen" (at least one that wasn't 1.33:1 to begin with), I would have stuck to VHS.
Warner, you're making a mistake with these "family" oriented releases and setting a terrible example. Please reconsider and release either both DVD-18 discs that have both full-frame and OAR releases on a single disc or dual releases put out at the same time.
Sincerely,
Mark Cappelletty
[Edited last by Mark Cappelletty on August 19, 2001 at 04:20 PM]

 

[Jeff Kleist]

By my count of the Wonka petition Warner has lost $280,212.87 from lost sales. Currently we are @ 11,213 signatures...

Wholesale price on $24.99 Warner titles is $15.61, so it's actually $175,034.93, still not an insignifigant chunk of change.
I'll say it again, NO OAR, NO SALE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH I LOVE THE MOVIE!
Jeff Kleist

 

[Patrick McCart]

Here's how I buy DVD's:
If I like the movie, I'll buy it. (or if the disc is highly reccomended...)
If I had to choose between the hybrid open-matte/pan & scanned for effects version of Cats & Dogs (which I'll not buy even if it is put in WS.) and Blazing Saddles...I'd go for Blazing Saddles.
Ok, that's a bad example.

The Wonka DVD sounds really good, but I want to future proof my DVD's so I don't have to spend a fortune to replace perfecly good DVD's with a minor upgrade to anamorphic.
I own 2 open matte films on DVD (Vegas Vacation...which I got for free...I don't watch it. And Help! (which is actually supposed to be 1.55:1 or lower))
I own 3 widescreen discs that are non-anamorphic. Yeah, the transfers are good, but they'll become obsolete when I get a widescreen TV.
Hey, I'll continue to buy WB discs (or Columbia, Fox, MGM, Disney, Paramount, etc...) as long as it's the best it can be. I'm not missing anything but some lines of resolution by getting the open matte Wonka DVD, but it'll be like a MS-DOS program being released NOW.
Family movies need to be aimed for the WHOLE family...including the OAR purists of the family.
If WB could just do that, that would be great.
(I really could care less about the Snappers...I take one look at the packaging and that's pretty much it. Snappers hold discs surprisingly better than the other cases. A WHOLE LOT better than the Amaray cases that make you flip the case upside down to get the disc out! I won't even mention those crazy early cases that had the hub teeth that often broke apart and damaged the disc!)
A word of warning: Cats & Dogs is going to leave a bitter aftertaste in your mouth. It's OK, but that's it. The producers neglected to give credit to Chuck Jones for directing the cartoon, "Chow Hound," which appears in the film. Cats & Dogs is a children-aimed film, which is why the disc is hybrid OM/P&S FX. Same reason why the Pokemon movies are pan & scanned...same reason why Space Jam is OM/P&S Animation scenes...
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P.S.: There's no P.S.

 

[James David Walley]

What continues to baffle me about this is how a studio can go from being such a great supporter of DVD to almost making a complete reversal.

Three little letters: A, O, and L.
I'm just glad that that Warner already put out The Secret Garden (one of my favorite films). Although the transfer isn't "grade A" (too much edge-enhancement), it is in anamorphic widescreen as well as P&S. Since it is explicitly a "Warner Brothers Family" title, I could only imagine what would have befallen it if it hadn't been released back in 1998...

 

[Robyn Young]

Dear Warner:
You may not care about my opinion, so instead, I'm going to tell you about me, and give you some of my insights into this madness.
I've been collecting dvd's for nearly 3 years. I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 270 dvds. Over the course of my purchasing, collecting, and trading, I have owned at least 400 discs. Of that number, 45 of them are Warner Discs, and only one isn't OAR(Chariots of Fire--I'm not going to get into why I have it...) Needless to say, I won't be purchasing any more. I refuse. Why, you may ask?
I intend on buying a widescreen set in the next year. Maybe as early as Christmas. I have to think to the future--something you don't seem to be doing at all. As a single person, I don't have a family now, but might one day. If I were to load up on substandard releases now, then buy a widescreen tv, most of those discs would be banished to the spare tv somewhere(since when the widescreen tv comes along, the only thing that will be watched on it is widescreen programming, with very few exceptions. I wouldn't think that would be very condusive to family viewing. So, I'll just not buy any. Solves that problem.
Now, one thing I've been thinking about is the movie collecting habits of the general public. I know that several of us have DVD collections. I also think that you are assuming that the J6P's of the world that you are marketing this to had vhs collections. Do you think they bought all thier movies? I don't. Heck, before I collected DVD, I maybe had 30 pre-bought tapes(MANY OAR), and 100 taped-from-HBO tapes(again, MANY OAR). I think that many, many folks with vhs collections Taped them. I know too many folks who refused to buy dvd players because they had a substantial taped-from-PPV vhs collection. Made absolutely no sense to me, but there you have it. Now you are marketing to these same people--the ones who would rather rent the disc and watch it once than buy it, or buy the ppv movie and tape it, or tape it off of Cinemax, or HBO, or Showtime... I am absolutely convinced you do not know your audience, and need to reevaluate your marketing procedures.
Now that I've rambled on, here is the bottom line. I am a single, 30 year old person with some expendable income. I have the foresight to know what I want, and refuse to subject myself to the whims of a studio that seems to be forsaking the very people that made it what it is today. Although I can't say I'll completely boycott all purchases from Warner, I will say that my Warner purchases have been given a Waaayyyyyyy lower priority than they had previously.
I've bought 8 dvd's and pre-ordered 11 more in the last two days. Wanna guess how many of them were Warner discs?
Robyn Young

 

[Don Myles]

I agree wholeheartedly with Robert above - there is no reason that the DVDs could not be released as separate versions or with P&S on one side and Widescreen on the other (as used to be the practice). Production cost would be easily offset by the increased sales.
Warner, this is the sort of treatment I would expect from a studio who is dipping their first toe into the DVD market. You have no excuses... you should know better.
If consumers have indeed indicated that they prefer P&S releases then you have an obligation to at least try to educate these people allowing them to make an informed choice. Having both versions on the same DVD would be the first step.
I have never met anyone who had OAR explained properly to them who continued to prefer P&S.
Sort it out Warner - for your sake as well as ours.
Don
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[Gordon Wakim]

Dear Warner,
I agree that there are not enough wide screen televisions in the market place, but that will be changing soon. Your decision to only release Family titles in full screen or pan & scan only is a bad one. If 11,000 people do not purchase just five of your family titles, by my calculations that is $1,097,250 that is not being spent on Warner titles. This is based on an average street price of $19.95. That is a sizeable amount of money, at least it is to me. I was going to purchase Willy Wonka and Cats and Dogs, but with out an OAR release I just can’t do it. I already own the old version of Willy Wonka and will keep it because it has the movie presented in it's OAR, but I was willing to purchase it again to get the new transfer and the extras. I do not see why both versions can not be included. There are many examples of titles that have both versions on one disc, If there are a lot of extras you can use DVD-18 or make it a two disc set. Willy Wonka deserved this kind of treatment. Please re-consider this policy of yours, there are more people interested in OAR releases than you think. Children do not buy DVD's, adults do. And there are many adults that enjoy watching children’s titles.
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Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine

 

[Bill Crosthwait]

Warner, check this out,
http://www.petitiononline.com/wdvdx/petition.html
and this,
http://www.petitiononline.com/wonkadvd/petition.html
and this,
http://www.petitiononline.com/catdogdv/petition.html
Get the picture. Your going to lose money....make everyone happy buy releasing your "family" films with the options for widescreen and pan & scan. Until you guys do this my family will NOT buy any of your products again.
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Bill
My DVD Collection
[email protected]

 

[Seth Paxton]

I think Robert Drew's post is fair and to the point. At least some of us can understand why WB would worry about market research. But as Robert points out, you are researching a new format with new data patterns, and simply going by "preference" is not the same as asking:
"If this was the only version, would you buy it?"
We know the answer from the OAR camp, but I wonder, as does Robert, about the family camp. Hard to picture the people that buy everything their KIDS WANT passing up a film based on OAR, as if the kids themselves care. They just want WONKA, they won't care how. Heck you could frame it diagonally and kids wouldn't care (except those taught to care).
Yet another consideration however, is that Warner is losing respect from the film buff/collector camp, and that doesn't just mean family films.
I have heard the old business standard that it costs $1 to keep a customer, $5 to earn a new one. Right now Warner is destroying a lot of those $1 keepers which in the long run is going to cost them 5 times that amount to earn replacements for them.
Many a great company has been bitten in the rear by bad public image. The company image will weigh heavier than the actual product being produced much of the time. I just don't see a good reason for Warner to put themselves behind the 8 ball on this one.
Finally, you should consider the fact that the DVD market is dead-center of a quickly changing consumer electronics market. Much of this market research is going to mean diddly in 3 years as W/S sets invade people's homes.
Keep in mind that for every W/S owner there are tons of family and friends being invited over to see such set-ups, and they always go away highly impressed. So while ownership may still be low, POTENTIAL ownership which takes into account those many people with W/S TVs on their wishlists, is MUCH higher.
And there you will be, Warner, out in the cold with films that have black bars on them...on the sides.
This isn't some goofy videophiles pipe dream, this is millions of dollars of research, FCC regulation, and tons of consumer electronic companies' business plans ALREADY IN ACTION.
You keep making business plans in the now, while the rest of the industry works in the future. Let us know how working 2 years behind the competition works out for you over the next couple of years.
I won't be buying any Warner product at all for now. You are a disgrace to artist integrity and I hope your film division suffers for it from artists passing on working with you till you show some support for their work.

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Dear Warner,
Imagine if you bought a car from General Motors, and when you went to get in it, there was no way to adjust the seat. You ask the dealer what the deal is, and he says "Oh, our marketing research shows that most people are under 5'8" tall, so that's where we put the seat." How many cars do you think they'd sell?
People are different. Yes, there is a contingent of people who do not like the "black bars" on their screen. But there are just as many people (and probably more where DVD is concerned) who only buy widescreen movies. On a personal note, the reason I bought a DVD player (and now own over 300 titles) was to get widescreen movies, as the selection of letterboxed VHS was fairly slim. I truly do not understand the removal of the widescreen option, especially since it is cheaper to produce than pan & scan. You are removing choice from the hands of consumers and putting it into the hands of dubious market research. Why exactly were you doing market research on this issue to begin with? It isn't like your widescreen titles aren't selling enough copies, so it seems like you were doing unnecessary research (which has to cost you a hefty chunk of change).
Unlike many of the more dedicated HTF members, I will not stop purchasing Warner Bros.' DVD product. I will, however, only purchase those which offer anamorphic widescreen presentations at the original aspect ratio intended by the filmmakers. I will do this (and recommend that others do this) as it will provide you with far better marketing data than your researchers can provide. You will then see that titles that offer widescreen only or at least as an option will far outsell the titles for which the option has been unnecessarily removed.

 

[Mark Ward]

I KNOW IT'S LONG, LONG THREAD BUT PLEASE READ THIS ONE WARNER PEOPLE.
If I had a successful business selling Fine Wines and my market research company told me that 5 times as many people drink the domestic equivalents, I'd approach that market as well. What I wouldn't do is stop selling products my established customer base is clearly demanding. Connoisseurs will not buy that Pan and Scan muck.
I have bought 200+ DVDs in the past 18 months, none are pan & scan. I will never buy a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD again. We are lucky enough to have a massive selection of titles on which to spend our money, together with an industry that for the most part, WBHV recently becoming the odd exception, understands what it’s customers want.
A couple of years ago Video out sold DVD many times over, that didn't mean DVD was not a valid market to be explored. Anamorphic Widescreen is the only future of DVD movies, if you stop supporting it you're taking a step backwards. Research how many people are buying widescreen TVs (and how many aspire to).
This needs more than just a change of heart by Warner, this should bring into question the quality of judgement of those who made a decision that just about everyone can see will be disastrous.
For me, I'll live without your movies, my kids will miss them sure, but they'll be happy enough with those I buy in Widescreen.
Disney = Zero to Hero
Warner = Hero to ???? We'll see
Mark Ward.
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[Edited last by Mark Ward on August 19, 2001 at 11:53 AM]

 

[Tim Kline]

Please be very polite and precise with your
opinions in this thread. It is being read
by the studio and will be forwarded to the
head of the department.

If it hasn't been said already, (I don't wanna read through every post, there's too many

please also check the message boards at http://www.dvdtalk.com,
Me personally. I want Willy Wonka, Neverending Story and Cats & Dogs on DVD. However, I will NOT waste money on a product that I feel is inferior in any way. Therefore, I will NOT be purchasing these 3 new DVDs until a widescreen version comes out.
WB, if you are still reading this, here are some simple ideas to follow to make sure everyone is happy:
Kids and regular family folks don't like black bars. Well, I don't either but I've learned to deal with them because I want to see the movie the way it was made. For these people I DO agree that there should be a full screen version. With the billions of dollars made on dvd sales, it would be foolish not to accomodate those people. But, don't alienate the real movie buffs in the process. It's simple..

• You can either put out 2 different discs, one in widescreen and 1 in full screen (I think Remember the Titans did this, among others...). I think this is the best method, unless...
• You make 2 disc special editions where 1 disc is widescreen and the other is full screen, like the new edition of American Pie for instance.
• Make "bare bones" versions with just the movie and sound, and you can pick widescreen or full screen the same way you pick the audio or subtitles, all on the same disc. This would make little room for extras I'd guess though, but I think this way would make everyone happy, and could fit into 2 disc sets good where you can have extras all on the second disc.
• Start making the "old fashoned" 2 sided discs again with widescreen on one side and full screen on the other.
• Follow Disney's lead and put out a 1 disc and 2 disc version at the SAME TIME. Maybe the 1 disc can have the family friendly version and the 2 disc can be the one the movie lovers and collectors will want.

I used to work for a multimedia company that designed some of the first DVD menus ever. I know a bit about the technologies involved and I'm sure any of the above suggestions could be done with little or no problem. It may cost slightly more but then you could also charge slightly more, even $1 more I think would make up for it, and very few people would complain about that $1. Families may want full screen only, movie lovers may want widescreen only.. what you need to do is accomodate both, and everyone will be happy.
As for Snapper cases, that's another post for another day...
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Tim Kline
HT Newbie Extraordinaire!
[email protected]
Link Removed
My DVD List
Link Removed

 

[JohnS]

Warner,
How is it that DREAMWORKS is keeping everbody happy with the release of Shrek, by making it BOTH 16x9 & P&S.
and your company is just making the P&S peopele happy, why must you exclude the 16x9 people.
Take a lesson from studios care about thier customers AND thier movies!!!!!!
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