spending $2000 on the front three speakers, which ones... (1 Viewer)

[Scott Oliver]

To tell you the truth I have not heard KEF. I know george used to own them for several years and raved about them for that time period, then he heard of Gr Research last October and well I am sure you can take a guess as to his preferences now. KEF is a well respected company that has been around as long as B&W and are a direct competitor. For my tastes (both brands)I am not a fan of their reported sound (I have heard various B&W models) nor the value they offer. B&W makes some good designs and their sound certainly has its merits but for the price they ask, I think you can find better options at that level.

Martin Logan makes some nice speakers but I don't think their good stuff starts until you pass your dollar range.

Thiel is a good speaker manufacturer as well, but I would be concerned with driving some of their designs with your amp. They are known to present very tough impedance challenges that non-muscle amps(such as your B&K) could possibly not handle well. That said I think you should still make a point to at least listen to some Thiels and see how their presentation fits your tastes.

Anyhow out of what you have listed as available locally, I think those four brands are all worth checking out no matter my opinion on them.

As for GR Research I have heard 4 of their models, including the line array and have yet to be just blown away. I think all the value statements that are mentioned about them are true to a degree, but I also think there are some other speakers that are sold through the traditional business model that can compete or even exceed them soundwise and buildwise for the same amount of money (Although if you are thinking of just buying them as a kit and assembling them then they are certainly the speaker to beat for a couple hundred of dollars).

As for the other speakers I mentioned previosly the Harbeth Compact 7ES-2 are monitors but they are nearly 2'H x 1'W x 1' D, so definately not a small speaker. In addition to the reviews I already posted, I had forgotten the The Absolute Sound listed it as their top loudspeaker under $2,500. Of course, they have not reviewed everything including GR Research, ACI and JM Reynauds to name a few but still the other speakers behind it on the list are pretty big names in the speaker world. Magnepan, Aerial Acoustics, Martin Logan, Thiel, Vandersteen, Sonus Faber, Polk LSi, PSB, Totem, B&W, and others.

Lastly the other brand of speaker (Jm Reynaud Arpeggione or Cantabiles) I listed primarily because a reviewer had used a B&K ST 125 with them and reported a good match as well as with the other amps he used. Here is a link with the review from Listener magazine.
http://www.jm-reynaud.com/jmr_us/presse.php?select=5
I personally own and love JM Reynaud Ofrandes, BTW.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Geez is this a GR Research commercial or what.

Scott, sorry about that. I only posted to clear up what I thought were some misconceptions. Also, I agree that the GR stuff is not the end all, be all speakers out there. But I do think they represent a great value for the money.

As far as direct to consumer speakers, I'm quite partial to the ACI stuff that I have heard. As far as traditional chains, I've always loved PSB and Meadowlark Audio. (BTW, from what I remember, you're a pretty big guy so I'm inclined to not have many disagreements with you!)

Geno, we have A/V-1's, A/V-1+'s, and A/V-3's in our shop. I prefer the A/V-1+'s due to their superior midrange quality, but the A/V-3's do definitely have lower bass extension.

 

[george king]

Geno and Scott,

Yes, I used to own Kefs, and still love the sound. Indeed, it was the amazing sound of the new Kef reference speakers that prompted me to look for new speakers. I heard a setup with the Ref 205's, the big center and the bookshelf surrounds, and have never heard anything like it, before or since. Unfortunately, the list price on the setup was a little over $10K.

I waited for the new XQ series from kef, but that was also priced out of my range. In auditioning lots of speakers, and perusing the internet, I came across the GRs and built them on word of mouth alone. Maybe I have been a bit effusive, but in the bang for buck, I think they are hard to beat. The A/V-1s are around $700 if you have Brian build them. The only monitor I have heard that I prefer is the Revel M20, and that lists for around $2k.

If I were to buy a commerical speaker, it would be Kef, and the new reference line as they are stunning. One of the strong points of the Kefs (and where they do beat the GRs) is imaging. The coaxial design creates a point source, and all of the Kef Uni-Q speakers through an amazing image.

I would listen to the Kefs, and for your budget, the XQ 5s would probably be a good choice.

Hope this helps.

 

[Torgny Nilsson]

I am in a similar situation. After exhausting research I have narrowed my choice to three GR Research AV-1+ speakers with the cap upgrade or two EFE T-22CF speakers and a center C-2CF speaker. I would use them for both music and home theater.

The problem is that I have not heard anything negative about either speaker. No one seems to have compared the two in any test. The only comparison I have heard (from one person) is that the EFE may be a bit easier on your ears for long periods of listening. The AV-1+ speakers certainly look better in my opinion, and have matching stands available, but it is the sound that counts. I have not heard either speaker as they are both internet only companies.

Both companies are great to deal with and have been very forthcoming with information. I don't think you can you wrong with either, and you'd certainly get more bang for your buck than with most other speakers. Anyone else have any thoughts on these two?

 

[Danny Richie]

Hi guys,

I have been quietly following along for a few days now with no reason to interject anything but now I think I would like to clear up a few things and point out info in another thread that could pertain to this one.

First of all the big guy (Scott) says

"As for GR Research I have heard 4 of their models, including the line array and have yet to be just blown away."

When Scott heard the Alpha LS it was right after assembly of a fresh pair. It was the first pair to have all the drivers on the same plane as opposed to the earlier prototype that had the tweeters set back 3/4".

They did not sound very well to me at Hank's house either. The coherency and imaging just wasn't there.

When I got home I took measurement that quickly revealed the out of phase problem. Flipping the tweeter polarity back to in phase and making an adjustment to the values turned the speaker 180 degrees.

I am sorry Scott did not get to hear them in their glory.

When Scott heard our A/V-1, A/V-1+, and/or Paradox-1 models it was at a party in Austin at Jonathan's house.

The speakers were at the end of a loft in an empty room with bare walls all around the speakers. It was a bit like listening in a barrel. The sound was bright, over barring, and at the volume levels those guys were playing them at to get over the loud talking it made matters even worse.

Those speakers were also the older version of those models not having the new woofer and latest network design.

Sorry Scott, you have not heard our latest or greatest.

I think Scott may a have also heard a prototype of what now became the Criterion. It was just something I was playing with at the time that used our M-130 woofer and the new G2 ribbon tweeter. That was at a pre-pro shoot out over at Frederick's (also in Austin).

As for hearing our latest, there are the free in home demo speakers that are on tour that is currently being mentioned here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=128641

I also more than welcome taking the demo models to any of the local stores that will allow it and comparing them to anything at any price.

Also about low end extension:

The A/V-3 is -3db down at 40Hz with the standard box size, but the box can be made deeper and re-tuned to yield a -3db down of 35Hz just like our Paradox-3.

There are also some fully assembled Paradox-3's left at a reduced price too.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

 

[Michael Colby]

If you want something different than sensible bookshelves, consider the NHT 3.3. They look very cool. They are very well made and have great full-range sound down to 23Hz. If you check on audiogon.com or ebay, you can get a used pair for well under 2k.

 

[Doug BW]

I'm going to give a very enthusiastic "second" to the recommendation that you audition the Harbeth Compact 7ES-2, if at all possible. I listened to a lot of speakers before I bought the Harbeths....including the "$2k Dynaudios" someone mentioned earlier...and to my ears, nothing that was in the Harbeths' league price-wise was in their league sound-wise.

The Harbeths' strength is in their extremely uncolored midrange. To me, acoustic instruments and voices sounded much more like the "real thing" than with the other speakers I compared them to.

I've never heard GR Research speakers, but wish I had been aware last summer of their "touring demo speakers". The "touring speaker" concept is a terrific idea, though. I found several cases of speakers that are widely-loved by owners and reviewers, but which didn't quite "do it" for me. So the idea of buying a GR Research unheard, despite all the praise, didn't make sense to me. Had I known of the touring speaker then, I would have signed up for it.

 

[Scott Oliver]

Danny all those listening situations are true. But while I may have left feeling dissappointed a lot of other people at those same events, who frequent this forum or others, came away raving about how great the sound was out of GR Research and have posted as such.

So I have talked to you about my problems with the AV-1's at Jonathan's but not about the Criterions or Alpha's, and it sounds like you were dissappointed with the sound at those events as well. But if both you and I were dissappointed in the sound (in your case you know they can sound better, in my case I form an opinion on what I feel is their true performance) how do you explain all the others that continue to rave on and on about how great the sound was at these same events. To me that is pretty disconcerting and it is the reason why I will continue to offer my view of the sound from these events, if others are able to go away from these same events spouting on about how great they were.

So if everytime I post my opinion based upon my experiences, you follow it up with a statement declaring all the problems at these events therefore insinuating that my opinions aren't truly valid, then shouldn't you be doing the same for every post that is made about these same events declaring their greatness? Shouldn't these statements be tempered as well?

No answer needed, just something to think about. Anyhow no hard feelings, as you may have noticed I am not going around posting negatives on GR Research (don't even think my above post is very negative) and I only stated my opinion here after I felt Gr Research speakers were being forcefully shoved down Geno's throat. I just don't think that it was appropriate behaviour on this or any forum. Especially since there are so many speakers options out there, and not everyone's tastes in speakers are the same. My tastes may not lie with GR Research, but I will certainly keep an open mind next time I hear them.

 

[Danny Richie]

Anyhow no hard feelings

And there are no hard feelings here. Have a good one.

 

[Geno]

i gots a few ?'s

#1 for those GR fans, which set would you listen to Handel's water music with and why?

#2, Danny, if I wanted to uild the av-3's how can I get plans and how can I custom the box to suit my taste?

#3, george, ive read a few KEF posts from you. What is the difference between the different lines? Coda, Cresta, Q, QX, Reference??? how do I get a price range??

 

[Scott Oliver]

This is only the second time because if I remember right it is only the second time I have even mentioned GR REsearch or my opinions.

Again if I remember right I only posted that time on Audio Asylum because of an overzealousness that seemed to be overtaking the forum at the time as you said.

Another HTF member Mike Decock has the some of your last produced Paradox 1's, I am hoping in the future to get up to his place to hear his system, as he has been over to my pad twice to hear mine. I think he now has the AES Superamp, Audio Research Ls-2, and a VPI Scout. Definately a nice little system on the cheap as least as far as hi-end audio prices can go.

Maybe you will get down to Austin for another meet at some point (actually have one on March 22nd which should be a good one), for I will take up an offer to listen to more stuff anyday, anytime, anywhere. Recently found out there are dealers here in Austin who carry Avantegarde and VMPS respectivley. A dealer in S.A. has Rethm speakers, need to get down there to hear them. I am also hoping to get something set-up with a guy who has some Audio Note speakers in S.A., as well as another guy in Austin with Bottlehead speakers and their 300B monos. Can you tell I am an Audio junkie?
:b

 

[Danny Richie]

#2, Danny, if I wanted to uild the av-3's how can I get plans and how can I custom the box to suit my taste?

If you request it I will e-mail you the enclosure plans in a .pdf format. The drawings are typical CAD type and easy to read.

So long as you leave the front baffle pretty much alone and the air space and tuning remain the same there is clearly a high level of customizing that can be done.

If you do not want to take on building the enclosures yourself then you can have a pair custom built to suit your taste. Veneer choice, color, stain, clear coating is all up to the customer.

I have turned my custom enclosure building over to Brian Bunge at Rutledge Audio.

I have also contracted with Hank Frankenberg to build some A/V-3's as well.

 

[Geno]

you didnt answer #1


ps I forgot to mention that I work in a commercial millwork shop and can have the cabinets right here in town. sorry if I didnt say this before.

 

[george king]

Geno,

The Q line is the intro to the Uni-Q. The new series Q1 (bookshelf) to Q7 (big floor stander) range from a list of $450-1200. These are great dual HT music speakers, and are a great value for the money. I almost went with the Q7, but it was too much for my room. I liked these speakers a lot, but if I was going to upgrade, I wanted it to be meaningful, and the only speaker that fit that was the Q7, and it was too much for the room, like I said.

XQ - these are new, only a couple of months old. They are a transition between the Q and reference series. My e-mails with Kef America indicate that Kef positions these as base Reference line speakers, not upscale Q series. They range in price from $1500-3000/pair. I just read a review if the XQ1 (you can access it from the kef homepage). Essentially, the reviewer said these were great speakers, big sound stage, SUPER detail retreival. However, also said they were forward sounding, which not a sound I like.

Reference Series - these are fairly new and list for between $3500-8000/pair. The 205 (one from the top - $6000/pair) are stunning speakers. IMHO, I could not find anything wrong with them - they were hooked to Krell front end.

Hope this helps, and I did not mean to be pushy, and shove anything down your throat. However, some brands get more "play" than others, and I think that GRs are a great sounding speaker for not a lot of money, and they do not get enough attention. So I wanted to point them out, and may have gone a bit over board.

 

[Geno]

...nothing went down my throat. i wasnt offended at all. I guess I had already read how good the Av+1's were and wanted to hear about other small companys. you didnt answer my #1 ? either!

doenst anyone listen to Handel??? ok what about any Gershwin? Mozart? Its not that I only listen to them but classical and contemprary classical is what ive been trying to get back into. Besides, I can listen to any pop star on my POS computer speakers and be content. its when you listen to music with depth and emotion that you want to fully emerse yourself into the music, or am i just knuts and britney beats bethoven hands down?

 

[george king]

Geno,

If you mean classical in general, I listen to a fair amount of Mozart and Beethoven, and the A/V-1s sound great, detail and dynamics are there. I listen to mostly jazz and bluegrass these days, altough I have started listeing to "classic rock" again (I feel old). I just picked up the new remastered Ziggy Stardust - the CD finally sounds good (and not just because of the speakers). They really are very good all around speakers, that match with a variety of electronics. I hope the Kef answer satisfied you. I listed MSRP, but you can find the Q series on the net for reasonable discounts. The other lines I do not know about.

 

[Scott Oliver]

Your nuts Geno!

Britney beats all those stuffy old geezers.

 

[Danny Richie]

Sorry Geno,

I avoided number 1 for two reasons.

1. It was asking for something that was subjective. I let our customers elaborate on how certain models sound with this or that, and I try to stick to only answering specific product questions on these public forums.

2. I don't listen to a lot of classical music (some, but not a lot) and could not answer you question about Handel.

Personally, I like more modern symphony pieces better than the classics, like the compositions from John Williams. Not that the talent level is greater or the composition but that the recording quality is much better unless it is a recently recorded classic.

 

[Geno]

Danny, could you email me those av-3 plans?




thanks

Got them, thanks you

 

[Geno]

Danny, thanks for the plans.

I understand about what you say in the public forum. sorry to press you.


Scott, I hope you were joking with that statement.
Bah, Britney better tha Bethoven!