So You Think You Can Dance: Season 4 (1 Viewer)

[JoshRas]

Apparently Kherington, not only do the judges "hate" you, so does America. Not totally sad to see her leave, the last couple of shows she has rubbed me the wrong way a bit. Her attitude last week when getting criticism and her "judges hate me bit" was a little off putting, even if she was joking a bit. She seems to just love it when she is praised(like anyone), but doesnt take the heat very well. Looked like her Mom doesnt handle it very well either.

Nice to see the underdog Comfort pull one out, even if she will almost certainly be gone next week.

 

[Parker Clack]

I was kind of surprised to see Kherington go. I really thought out of the two she had a better performance the night before than Comfort had.

 

[Josh Dial]

I must say, the hair and makeup the girls had on the Mia Michaels routine made them all look extremely different.

 

[Chris Lockwood]

Some questions:

1. Do the choreographers know which couple they will be working with before they create the routine?

2. Does choreography have a written notation system like music does? If not, how do they keep track of stuff?

3. If Mia Michaels designed a routine for Mr. Haim and Mr. Feldman, would that make her a Coreyographer?

 

[Josh Dial]

Chris, there is indeed a common notation for choreographing dance, known as "Laban," but for the most part, it is taught more than it is used. On my girlfriend's copies of her scripts and music, she uses her own shorthand for the most part (despite learing Laban in school), and it seems to be the norm.

 

[Hanson]

I know this sounds all conspiracy theory, but this is my speculation:

The producers seem to be engineering a top four like this:

Will
Katee
Chelsie
Twitch or Joshua

Each contestant his their own judge/friend of the show behind them.

The Will pimping has been obvious since week one. But with Jessica as his partner, it was difficult to showcase his skills. Much to their chagrin, they were safe from the bottom three in weeks 2, 3, & 4, so they couldn't geet rid of Jessica. By the time they could in week 5, it no longer mattered since they were going to split up anyway. Had they hit B3 in weeks 2, 3, or 4, Jessica would have been axed. Now that he's free, he will be given all the show-off choreo to showcase his skills and build his fanbase. Obviously, this is Debbie Allen's choice. For Nigel, Will is a link to get SYTYCD more legitimacy in the dance world. Having Alvin Ailey last week and showcasing Complexions this week is a step in that direction. It's like having your daughter marry into royalty.

The Katee pimping is more recent, but they've started to give her the better routines and showcases to build her fanbase. I think she was and is Mia's choice (Katee has apparently trained under her, although it's nothing like the mentor/protege relationship Will has with Debbie). Now that she's worked past her quitter edit, Mia and the producers are fully behind her.

Chelsie is Mary's choice. If you notice, she has gotten a ballroom in three out of the past 5 shows, and received a Mia Michaels comtemp piece in week 1. She has been able to showcase her skills and build a fanbase. Getting rid of Kherington was a way to remove the other young blonde girl to funnel those votes to Chelsie. They will have to start cutting down Courtney soon, although she is probably lagging behind the other two female TCO's in votes.

Coming into the season, Nigel was looking at having a "raw" dancer coming in and winning it all, and that dancer was Twitch. The only problem is, he isn't that good of a dancer, lacking versatility and has horrible ballroom skills. Twitch is charisma over substance, which is where Josha comes in. He's got the requisite rawness, but unlike Twitch, he's a quick study a very adaptable. At this point, they both get enough votes that Nigel can probably wait until top 6 to decide. Rightfully, it should be Josh -- Twitch actually has no business being in this group of dancers. Josh has been getting tons of showcase dances (which, give him credit, he pulls off with style). Twitch gets protected at every turn, being given the easier to fake ballroom dances (two waltzes and a Paso, no hip shaking rumba or samba in sight), a dumbed down Mia routine, and hip hop here and there, with noting but compliments from weeks 1-4 and non-specific criticisms in week 5 (it wasn't "genuine"). Does anyone think it's a cooincidence that he got a hip hop as his second dance to wash the taste of the first waltz from the viewers' palates?

That leaves us with Courtney, Mark, and Comfort essentially out of the running if the producers can help it. Mark was thrown under the bus last week, and I wouldn't doubt if he was paired with Comfort and given a quickstep this week. They have been subtly criticizing Courtney for two weeks now, and she will get one of those, "sorry, but not good enough" critiques this week. Comfort can go at any second, they don't really need to do much to grease those wheels.

They'll probably let the final four duke it out fairly, but at this point, it would be shocked if it wasn't Katee, Will and Chelsie with Josh or Twitch. If Twitch gets a latin ballroom and bad critiques, then his time has finally run out. But they'll probably hold off on that until the week after. This week is the week to get rid of Mark. Had Mark gone last week, it would have been Gev's turn. They seemed to go after both of them with the critiques last week. While Mark was truly drowning with what he was given (a two step and a characterless, pointless Jazz piece were practically sabotage), I thought that some of the Gev critiques were unfair.

 

[Brett_M]

I agree with you. Great insight. Can't wait to see how it plays out.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

It may be great insight, but I need more details. Specifically, when exactly will Courtney be eliminated, and what bar will she choose to drown her sorrows? I've tickets to buy and plans to make.

Seriously, I'm reading Will's profile on the official Fox site and he says he's had no formal training. That surprises me as when I watch him, he seems the very definition of my perception of "formally trained dancer." How can you be a protege of Debbie Allen and not be formally trained? Josh?

 

[Josh Dial]

I know Hanson likes his conspiracy theory for this show, and the final four may very well be as he says, but I don't think it will be because of rigged dance/partner couples. At the very most, the producers could simply change the results of the polling (which the disclaimer says is possible). The only reason why I don't think the show can be rigged via dance and partner draws, is because a few seasons back, I saw with my very own eyes the "drawing out of a hat" process. Sure, things could have changed now, and of course it's pretty simple to rig a hat-draw, but I'm going to give the show the benefit of the doubt.

Also, to be quite honest, I think Will, Joshua, Katee, and Chelsea are the best dances on the show anyway, and don't really need much "engineering" to be in the final four. This show is one of the few vote-off shows where I tend to agree with the judges' choices when it's their call, and then also agree with America. Heck, at this point, I don't even care who wins, really, because outside of Comfort, I actually like all the dancers.

 

[Hanson]

I was willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt because of the disclaimer at the end of the show that stated pre-top ten that dancers were paired by the producers but the styles were selected "randomly" (supposedly, the top ten has both pairs and styles drawn randomly). The thing is, the preponderance of evidence shows that the way styles shake out could not be truly random:

1) Season 3's breaker and contemp couple of Dom & Sabra pulled disco, then contemp, then rumba, then hip hop. Gev & Courtney, another breaker and contemp couple, pulled disco, contemp, rumba, then hip-hop. In that exact order. Week five was Jive for D&S, and Cha Cha for G&C. They also tried the unrequited showmance angle with Dom & Sabra, but Sabra was a cold fish and Dom obviously had the hots for Cat.

2) Katee & Will are paired together "randomly" only to draw the Desmond Richardson piece. So basically, the two best technical dancers (probably the only pair that could have pulled it off) ended up with that pas de deux? Thank goodness it wasn't, say, Comfort and Twitch. Wow, "randomness" really spared that from happening. BTW, Mia compared Will to Desmond Richardson the week before. Another coincidence heaped upon coincidence? Or was it name dropping to prepare you for next's week's Will showcase?

3) No one gets the same style twice in a row. In season 1, when it was truly random and there was an actual hat, Allen kept getting hip hop (which, since there are two hip hop routines every show, can easily happen). But this kind of repeating doesn't happen any more (didn't happen last year either). TCO's will get styles in their specialty repeatedly -- Chelsie keeps pulling ballroom, Twitch keeps getting hip hop, and Will has gotten contemp three weeks in a a row (the Mandy Moore lyrical piece was essentially contemp as was the "pas de deux"). But each of Chelsie's ballroom dances were different, and each of Will's pieces were labelled something else, and in between Twitch's "hip hop" was a "krump". So it doesn't look like repeats. It's like that line from Silence of the Lambs -- "doesn't this random scattering of sites seem desperately random – like the elaborations of a bad liar?"

4) Speculators on various boards predict the dances based on past distributions and what styles are left undanced for each contestant. Some of them are amazingly spot on. In week two, someone guessed 8 out of 9 styles. Even without that blip, speculators are correct over half the time. If this were truly random, their hit rates would be very low. This is not a coin flip -- this is which pair gets which style, and while I'm no statistics whiz, guessing the results for a truly random distribution like this should be well under 50%.

5) They randomly assigned Mark & Kher and Chelsie & Gev to keep tall/tall short/short pairs? How random. And then the tallest girl and shortest boy (which are difficult to pair) leave? Hmm...

It's not that any one of these could happen without violating probability. It's that all of these things happening at the same time violate rules of probability.

I do agree that a final four of Josh, Katee, Will and Chelsie would be a case of quality will out. But when was the last time in a competition like this that the four best contestants actually ended up in the final four (although I'm still not convinced it will Josh over Twitch)? The judges have shaped the voting to funnel results in a certain direction. If that weren't the case, why do shows like this and AI continually have cannon fodder? They need buffers in case their TCO's falter here and there.

Believe me Josh, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But this stuff doesn't add up if there is any sort of randomness to it.

 

[Josh Dial]

Well, to be quite fair, none of those things completely, utterly, 100% rules out probability.

The other thing that people seem to be ignoring, is that while the styles are chosen randomly (granted, the conspiracy theorists claim they aren't), the actual choregraphers aren't. This means it's prefectly possible for a pair to draw say a contemporary piece, and another pair to draw the pas de deux, and have the producers elect to give the amazing comtemporary routine to the latter couple (who is technically superior), and simply call it a pas de deux.

Also, I simply don't believe your fourth point, about the speculators on other boards. Even if it were true, it's simply much easier to chalk it up to those posters being crew to the show.

Like it or not, believe it or not, but it's actually virtually impossible for a conspiracy (let's call it what it is) you describe to actually happen. Not because the possibility isn't there, but because the posibility that a leak wouldn't have appeared shreds credibility to it, at least to me. You can't honestly believe that with all the cast and crew involved in the making of a show, from the camera men filiming the hat draw (there IS a hat, even if you don't believe me - you can SEE it on the screen!), to the editing crew, and beyond, that not a single soul would have phoned one of the tabloids? Especially when shows like this have a gambling aspect to them (you can indeed bet on this show in some casinos). Conspiracies are virtually impossible to pull off, and it isn't happening on this show.

 

[Hanson]

I don't think as many people need to be involved to rig it like this. I too am surprised that for a something that is technically a game show would rig things in this manner. But I just don't know what "random" means in SYTYCD producer parlance. Maybe their definition has some sort of different logic from what we expect. But really, all you are saying is that it can't happen because they didn't get caught -- yet. But that's all that means. It doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

The Dom/Sabra Gev/Courtney style tracking alone should take care of the coincidences for the season.

 

[Josh Dial]

Well, just running the numbers myself, if you look at the numbers of couples per week, the possible choices of dance, and the fact that the dances come in pairs (another point people seem to be ignoring), then it's actually a REALLY good chance that a dancer gets their style, at least loosely, once per week.

If there are 4 couples, and thus 4 cards, each with 2 dances on them, and 3 of those 4 dances have a ballroom style on them, well then it's definately NOT rigged if one of the ballroom dancers gets something in their style (this is indeed the case from this week).

I checked out that thread, and I must say, I don't think that accuracy of the guessing of a single individual approaches 15%, no word of a lie. The people who "win" each week don't even guess the dancer/routine combos - they are winning stupid things like "who will be shown on camera first?" Not only does almost every guesser pad their guesses with multiple guesses, but it seems rare for a single person to guess even two things right, outside of useless stuff like "who will judge first, Nigel or the guest?" That site (or at least that thread) is an utter joke.

I'm not sure what else to say, but it's clear to me that it is most certainly not rigged. Is everything utterly random? I doubt it. However, I maintain that the math works well enough, and that the manipulated facets of the show don't seem to be anywhere near approaching "rigging," or even considerations for entertainment.

Here's the quick stats on Courtney (and Gev for a few weeks): Disco, Contemporary, Rumba, Hip-Hop/Broadway, Chachacha/Jazz, Hip-Hop/Rumba. If someone thinks that looks even REMOTELY fixed or manipulated, especially when you look at the list of possible routines or routine combos (when there are 2 routines), well, that's pretty silly.

cheers!

 

[Brett_M]

Mark and Comfort go home tonight.

 

[James Lee]

I think there is an outside chance Chelsie goes home. The pre-dance interview/practice session videos they showed of her last night surprisingly made her look like a spoiled diva. It might cost her viewer votes who were turned off by her attitude.

Otherwise, I agree that Mark and Comfort are the most at risk. Too bad. I like Mark's quirkiness. Comfort clearly is not at the same level as the rest of the dancers. That brutal foxtrot they did cost them pretty dearly.

 

[JoshRas]

ummm, did I miss something How in the heck did Will go home and not Mark?? Im not a huge Will fan but I can not believe America voted for him the least. Perhaps Nigel's theory about America voting for people they think are in trouble and assuming the best will be safe. I have to say once the bottom two were announced, I was rooting against Twitch after his little pouting session at the back of the stage.

Comfort deserved to go but I will miss her. Her solos were always fun to watch and the girl does have a ton of personality. Next to go Courtney and Mark. But who knows, there have been some big upsets lately.

 

[Brett_M]

I was really surprised, as well. "They" want Twitch in the final four. Will was outstanding but looking back, there was always a disconnect for me. He was a nice person but his personality never came through the TV screen, except when he did his James Brown solo on Wednesday.

 

[Hanson]

Dear Mia,
Here are some suggestions for your next Twitch dance:

1) Twitch is FDR and his partner is Eleanor. He sits in a wheelchair, flailing his arms and making sad faces.

Nigel would proclaim,"Twitch, your movements and power are breathtaking. I could feel your desire to walk. Bravo, wonderful dancing."

2) Twitch is Stephen Hawking and his partner is the big bang.

Nigel would proclaim, "I can't believe a popper could pull off something like this! Your lines when you tilt your head to the right like this (tilts head) are simply amazing. You're everything this competition is looking for."

3) Twitch is a statue and his partner is a sculptor. This isn't a Pygmalion/Galatea thing -- he's just a staute. But he's nekkid.

Nigel would proclaim, "you look like a superhero up there! What a physique
(leers)! Who else wants to "dance" (makes air quotes) with Twitch? But really, such power and grace. You've really stepped up and taken what you were given and made it your own."

4) Twitch is Otzi The Iceman and his partner is a mountain climber. He doesn't dance -- he's been dead for 5300 years after all -- so much a lie there in the pack snow, waiting to be discovered.

Nigel would proclaim, "I would just like to talk about all the amazing contemporary dancers that have been on this show in the past four seasons. Dancers like Travis, Danny, and Will, who was unfortunately voted out by America last week. Twitch, some of the things you do remind me of the power and grace these other dancers exhibit -- the emotion and vulnerability. Twitch, you're right up there with them, and I can't believe a popper with such little traning could do something like this. You're everything this show is about and I'm very proud of you."

Of course, you would get your obilgatory shout out and coronation as the best contemporary choreographer in the world each time.

I don't need any compensation if you use these ideas -- the chance of seeing amazing choreography on stage is reward enough.

 

[Josh Dial]

Wow, some people are pretty bitter about that results show

While I personally recognize Will's prowess as a dancer, I felt he lacked ANY emotion in virtually all of his routines, and as such, actually preferred Twitch to stay another week over Will. At first I thought it was just the simple fact that he was paired up with Jessica the entire time (perhaps he was constantly distracted by her breasts) and she was keeping him back. However these past few weeks confirmed that he's technically great, but ultimately boring to watch due to a lack of emotional involvement (at least, that's how I see it).

And Josh, I don't think Twitch was "pouting" at the back of the stage after it was announced he was in the bottom two, but rather trying desperately to not cry on national television.

With regards to the rest of the show, I have to say that I thought the pas de deux (a real one!) was simply amazing. Eddie Tovar and Aubrey Morgan of the Los Angeles Ballet Company were tremendous - Miss Morgan has incredible technique! Nigel should have asked LL to go home, and made room for another ballet routine.

 

[Hanson]

Actually, I wasn't at all upset about Will leaving. He's great by himself (and I loved that James Brown thing he did), but he's just not connected when he dances with a partner, and as talented as he is, he's no Danny, so it didn't bother me. I like Mark and Josh so much more than Will, so him not making top four is fine by me.

Twitch is a different story. He's style over substance. I do not want him in the top four. He doesn't deserve it.

I loved the ballet piece, somnething I've never really watched before. It was interesting that so much of the vocabulary of the other dances (positions, holds, etc) were seen in that pas de deux. It's like the same language, different dialect.