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So You Think You Can Dance: Season 4 (1 Viewer)

Hanson

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Nigel likes to foster the perception that someone off the street can be given the opportunity via SYTYCD to become a great dancer. In order to do this, he compartmentalizes a lot of the dancers as beholden to one style when in fact almost all of the dancers have cross trained. He would talk about how great it was that a B-Boy like Sara could pull off a non-hip hop when in fact she more training in fields other than hip hop.

Joshua, Gev, and Mark have more training than these labels lead you to believe (Mark is really more of a hip hop dancer than contemp). Courtney dances jazz and hip hop for a living. Twitch has had training which they acknowledge because he's the story they wanted, a guy who was raw, trained specifically to be on the show, and then, beacuse of Nigel, became the best all around dancer and winner of the season. Unfortunately, Twitch is not that good, and the script will have to be rewritten because it's going to get a lot of the audience pissed off if the true talent loses to someone like that due to undue pimping and overpraising. I know it's America's favorite dancer, but jebus -- there has to be some standards.

Rather than start a new post, I'll just add this here:

Based on group of factors that include technical skill, performance ability, partnering skills, and charisma/star quality, I would rank the top ten like this:

Joshua – Very high to maxxed out scores across the board

Mark -- Very high to maxxed out scores across the board

Chelsie -- High to maxxed out scores across the board, but her hip hop is not nearly as strong.

Katee -- Maxxed out scores across the board except for charisma/star quality. When she’s not performing, she’s kind of nerdy and non-descript.

Kherington – I struggle to put her this high because I don’t think she’s that great. But it appears that for many people (that are full blown Twitchingtards) her performance and charisma are ticks higher than Courtney. Also, she may have to get props for her partnering skills – as much as Will has carried Jessica, Kherington has carried Twitch. When she’s not fully on, Twitch is exposed.

Will – Not sold on his partnering skills, and some of his charisma just doesn’t come across to some viewers. His performances aren’t consistently goose-bump inducing or even rewatchable.

Twitch – Pitiful technical skills, awful partnering, will die on the floor in any ballroom that requires fleet footwork or hip action. But he has some very palpable charisma that a lot of viewers respond to, and for bonus points, he has some sort of jedi mind trick power that makes people think his dancing was great when he doesn’t even do much.

Courtney – Mid to High scores across the board, a bit lower for performance. She’s slightly more charismatic than Gev.

Gev – Mid to High scores across the board.

Jessica – Low marks across the board. Falters constantly, can’t hold poses or make smooth movements. Terrible partner. Other than boobs, is pretty low wattage in the charisma dept. Should have been cannon fodder. Would have much rather had Chelsea Trail in the top ten.
 

Hanson

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If they kept leaning towards the best dancers, yes I would agree with you. But they don't -- they push dancers based on agenda rather than talent, and that's really what's at issue for me and many other viewers who think the judges suck total ass. Mary's propensity for screaming and stupid catchphrases instead of substantive critiques are also a turn-off (I hope the course correction she took this week remains permanent).

I can see why they feel the need to shape the top ten on this show -- for one, being able to appreciate good dance from bad isn't well developed on the audience side (which is another reason the judges have to be so much better than they are), so it's important to correct for audience voting patterns that are screwing over really good dancers. The partnering aspect is another issue -- you may have a sucky partner and need to be saved or mabye you are a sucky partner and need to be booted. The voting system gives the judges that flexibility.

But Idol is different -- people are much more aware of what is and isn't good singing (EDIT: and there's a real variation of what can be considered good singing), and there is no partnering aspect. And frankly, I like the Sanjaya's and Jason Castro's in the system. The show is pretty boring without them. As many complaints as I've had about SYTYCD, I've never complained after the show that it was boring (Josh/Katee & Mark/Chelsie won't let that happen). "BORING!" was my verdict after every single Idol last year.
 

Josh Dial

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Heh, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point :) I personally feel the comments have struck a nice balance between leaning towards those with the best talent, those who had potential but ultimately failed to live up to it, those who excelled beyond expectations, and that all-too-elusive "it factor."

All things considered, there have been a scarce few moments on the show where I have downright disagreed with the judges, as opposed to Idol, where I would peg the "baffled" factor at over 50%. For example, I just never understood the appeal of David Archuleta. Not only did I think he was as bland as they come charisma-wise, I didn't think he was that great of a singer. For most of the comments by the Idol judges, I was simply baffled about over the praise they were heaping on him, whereas on Dance, even on the comments I don't agree with, I can generally see why they are made.
 

Hanson

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I (and I think, many others) find the commentary to be content free for the most part. Up until last week, Mary's comments were 90% useless hollering and mugging for the cameras. It was like Paula mated to an air raid siren. Nigel is like a senile man who occasionally has moments of clarity, but mostly riffs on some minor thing like the audience wants to listen to his schtick (we want to hear valid commentary). And like James pointed out, Mia spent most of her critque for Josh & Katee talking about world dance in general and didn't offer much about the performance itself.

I much preferred the commentary from last year, and the Australiain version (which you can YouTube or bittorrent) had really, really good commentary in contrast.

Boobs!
 

Mikah Cerucco

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You guys must be made of stone. I just watched show 415/416 (6/25/08) and Courtney is blazing hot to me. Courtney G. and Gev did a Rumba to "Wishing on a Star" that had me ready to sell off my retirement fund and set up a Love Shack. Is she technically a great dancer? Well, I don't know. But I do know I could watch her dance all day.

I'll try to catch up so I'm discussing more current episodes, but I just had to share that feedback. ;)
 

Patrick Sun

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True, I scratch my head at some of the commentary and hate being directed towards some of the dancers, but like Nigel said, you can be technically proficient and wonderful (like Will), but if you don't have that spark, that personality that shines through in your dancing (Mark, Chelsie, Courtney, Kherington), or chemistry (Joshua and Katee) the audience will not support you with votes. Dancing is meant to be fun and lively (within the bounds of the style being required to perform, of course), and most of all, entertaining. Courtney and Gev entertain people, and for most viewers, that's good enough to motivate them to vote for them. Will has some wow-factor moves and a ridiculously cut body, but he is a rather boring soul-less dancer at times (I'd rather they had cut Will over Thayne this week just because of the degree of joylessness I feel when I watch Will dance).
 

Patrick Sun

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Now down to the final 10, and a guy and girl go home each week.

Guys (best to worst)
Joshua - had a solid night of performances.

Will - lucked out by getting Katee, which allowed him to dance more freely.

Twitch - first dance not too good, but entertaining 2nd dance.

Gev - fun first dance, but a little too frenetic in the 2nd dance.

Mark - drew the unlucky straw in getting Kherington and uncommon dances.

-----

Gals (best to worst):

Katee - just another solid night, even with the minor error in the 2nd dance.

Chelsie - outdanced Gev, but kept things rolling for both of the dances.

Courtney - lucked up getting paired with Joshua and took full advantage.

Comfort - first dance was awkward, but nailed the second dance.

Kherington - no chemistry with Mark, and danced too carefully in the first dance, and passionless in the 2nd dance.

But bottom two for the guys might be Mark and Twitch, and Kherington and Comfort for the girls.

Jessica looked pretty nice when she's not in dance dress.
 

JoshRas

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I too thought Kherington had the worst night among the girls. She did not look to happy when she was getting critiqued tonight. I dont feel much from her when she dances. Nice to see Comfort come back, I thought she actually had a great night. The first dance was a little off but the hip hop was great. If the public votes on actual worst overall tonight, I think this is the end of Kherington. The public has shown they just wont blindly vote for her just out of popularity so she could be gone.
 

Hanson

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I started the evening by thinking, "why the hell is Twitch on the judging panel?" Then I realized it's his krumping doppelganger, L'il C. And I must say -- he gave more substantive critiques than Mary and Nigel combined, without the schtick and catch phrases that make it seems more like scripted perfomance than spontaneous judging. I even found his malapropisms charming, and his description about "bleeding on the floor" was much more coherent and evocative than anything Mia tries to get across. Like Dan Karaty, L'il C is a better judge than he is a choreographer.

Josh and Courtney's Bride of Frankenstein hip hop number could have been better if Courtney wasn't in it. Courtney just doesn't do enough, and I think it's because she's so self-satisfied that she stops trying hard before it's really good enough. In her initial audition, she was so sure she'd get a Mary scream but she didn't, and it seems like every week, she's surprised when she gets any criticisms. Josh was good, but without the connection he had with Katee, it was a little limp, lacking in any chemistry. Courtney looked clunky dancing next to Josh.

I think that pairing Mark and Kherington for a very fast and little known partner dance like the Two Step was a disaster waiting to happen. Mark is used to having a great partner having danced for five weeks with Chelsie, and Kherington is used to leading in her ballroom dances to cover up Twitch's atrocious partnering skills. The result was a total mess - Mark trying to lead while Kherington didn't even bother trying to dance with her partner. It didn't help that it was so sloppily executed. Mark tried really hard, affecting the carriage and posture of a C&W dancer. But Kherington appeared to have not learned the routine fully, and her slow and labored spins towards the end really makes you wonder about her conditioning. Almost the worst routine of the night.

The worst routine of the night was Twitch and Comfort's Smooth Waltz, which was not smooth in the least. So lumbering, so stiff, so lacking in footwork - Twitch dances like Frankenstein's Monster. I kept thinking about the Puttin' on the Ritz number from Young Frankenstein. Comfort couldn't take over the routine like Kherington did, and while I'm not going to kill the last big lift for being a bit tippy-toed, Twitch didn't even bother dancing or keeping with the music as he walked downstage, so, that is basically fail. This one was not Uba Duba.

I don't know what was the big deal about the Broadway routine - for one thing, I though the boat was too obvious and literal, and it also cut down so much of the space that part of the dance was just arm waving. The rest was filler as well. I think that Will and Katee are the two best technical dancers in the show, so I will blame this one on the choreographer. It was just boring.

I was pleasantly surprised at how well Chelsie danced this contemporary routine without Mark. Actually, I was friggin' impressed - she's as good as Lacey Schwimmer was in her contemporary routines (well, maybe just a hair less). She was much better here than her jazz or broadway routines, and given a lot more to do than her Mia Michaels routine. If she had done this with Mark, it would have been one of the highlights of the season. But Gev? Not so much. He has to devour the dance like Mark does, but Gev just nibbles away at it like a mouse. And he showed no real passion or heat. I think the Gev/Courtney chemistry was manufactured hype and didn't really exist. I didn't know who was to blame for it at the time, but since neither had any chemistry with their new partners, I'd say, spread the blame.

I dunno why, but I thought Josh was just ridiculously good in his rumba. There was something so passionate and caveman about it that contrasted with the lighter tone of his samba with Katee. That one was all smiles - this one was more like, "bitch, keep up with me!" Speaking of which, Courtney just can't keep up with Josh's hip action, and whenever he would hold her and lean out, she just didn't lay out enough, like she either didn't trust Josh or she thought it was "good enough". I know Katee would have been at a 45 degree angle with the floor during those movements. Courtney can dance like she did with Gev and get away with it, but with Joshua, she just looked like an amateur. It seemed like he would get waaay more extension that she did every time they stopped and posed. As Josh stretches out his arm, his chest and waist are rolling. Courtney only extends her arm. It's like two different skill levels. That last lift was a bit cocked up - I wasn't sure if Courtney was supposed to turn into it but didn't, but there was a distinct lack of momentum, and instead of whirling around onto his shoulders, she stopped as she straddled Josh's face with her crotch. He looked a bit pissed. And hey - there was a Josh personality sighting during the judging! He's a sweet guy, but he only seems to really come alive when he's dancing. Tonight, he was funny and engaging, talking about taking his shirt off to keep up with Will and Twitch.

I usually shy away from blaming choreography, but really, what the hell was that? It was just a random jumble of moves with no ideas, no purpose, and no sense. The dancing itself was good and the synchronicity was spot on most of the time, but it was like a routine made by a computer. I don't know if the judges are hell bent on getting rid of Mark and Kherington - between the Two Step and this random mess, it's like the SYTYCD Kobayashi-Maru test -- the only way they could have passed would have been to change the choreography altogether.

You might think that Comfort and Twitch doing hip hop together would be all that and a bag of chips, but you'd be wrong. There weren't really any tricks, and the dancing was repetitive. But the biggest drawback was that they didn't really interact much, and maybe it's because he's so much bigger or something, but when they danced in unison, it didn't look like they were completely in synch. Maybe I was expecting too much. That wasn't even the best hip hop routine of the season (Josh & Katee and Mark & Chelsie had way more memorable/enjoyable routines). And just when I think Twitch is going down, the judges slobber over this one excessively. So let me get this straight -- they're both great hip hop dancers? Duh!

All I can say is, that as the best routine from this season. Bar none. Bar NONE. I'd have to rummage through my memories to think of a better one from any season. This was a pas de deux from Dwight Rhoden and Desmond Richardson, although a pas de deux in name only - this essentially a contemporary dance number. And they couldn't have gotten two better dancers to execute it (in fact, they probably paired up Will and Katee this week just for this piece). The choreography was just amazing, and the helicopter lift and the last lift where she jumped and spun into his arms were the most spectacularly executed lifts I've ever seen on the program. The entire routine gave me chills. There was a bobbled split spin (in which it looked like Katee just couldn't fold up enough while maintaining the split to get under Will's arm), but in the face of the totality of the dance, it was a blip. I could watch this one over and over again - the execution was (almost) perfect and contained so much movement it demands multiple viewings. I'm still not on board the Will train like I was on the Danny train, but this was one impressive performance. And Katee was just as incredible. My only complaint was there was an awkward pause in the middle of the actual song. Which backstage clod remixed this? I found that more of a blemish than the failed spin.

I thought that the criticisms they laid on Gev for his Jive were a bit harsh considering he did as good a job in a ballroom routine as any other guy has this season other than Josh. I mean, how can they basically criticize Gev for not keeping up with a Latin Ballroom specialist like Chelsie (who, by the way, is an absolutely smoking dancer)? I can appreciate L'il C's critique about Gev concentrating too much and not having fun, but Mary and Nigel magnifying out itty bitty technical errors and making it sound like Gev failed to dance this well ended the evening on a down note. It just sounded like they wanted Gev to look bad.

I don't have much to say about the solos -- they're too short for anything to really develop unless you're breakdancing. My one note was the desperation Kherington showed, wearing boy shorts two sizes too small with her ass cheeks hanging out, which she stuck into the camera repeatedly. Her routine ended with a full on mooning. I'm no prude, but it just seemed vulgar for a high schooler to sexualize herself on national TV like that.

In the end, I'd say that while the best routine of the night was Will and Katee's pas de deux, the biggest surprise of the night was Chelsie, who rocked it in her two numbers and still flourished without Mark, who gets the prize for "missing his partner the most". Josh got by without Katee, but it's just not the same -- Courtney is at a very clearly defined level (or two) below Katee. It's like Van Halen with Sammy Hagar.
 

Josh Dial

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I agree with Hanson, that Lil'C was a pretty great judge. Though to be fair, I actually though Mary and Nigel were above-average in the quality of their comments - Mary only had one scream (that I can remember), and only a handful of "hot XYZ" comments, while Nigel was pretty serious as well (despite leaving the suit at home).

My only comment for the night's routines was that the pas de deux was definately, one hundred percent, NOT a pas de deux. It was contemporary. At the very most, it about 5% of it was balletic contemporary. It wasn't even like some of the other routines (most of the waltzes this year, et cetera), where about half was the chosen style, and the other half was a concession to jazz or contemporary to make the dance, well, danceable. Almost none of the moves were ballet moves (even the leaps weren't), and further, most of the "lines" weren't together. What I mean is if you watch a proper pas de deux, if the partners are near each other (or even far, actually), their lines should either mimic each other, or compliment each other so well that they could appear to be one person (it's a hard concept to explain).

That all being said, it was one of the best contemporary routines I've seen
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif


Of course it's not fair to compare actual ballet dancers with artists on "Dance," as ballet perhaps requires the most serious training of any style (arguably, of course), but check out the pas de deux from Swan Lake, and compare:

YouTube - Marina Rzhannikova Black Swan Pas de Deux (Swan Lake)

cheers!
 

JoshRas

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I think its pretty clear that the two bottom girls right now are Kherington and Comfort. Based on last nights performance, I would be sending Kherington home. How about everyone else?

I did notice the Kherington booty shorts, they were a bit extreme, but I think thats just because she has a nice full backend. I think she's a college girl now if that helps ya?
 

Hanson

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Well, I believe she graduated and will be going to college next year (if she's not touring), so in my book, she's still a high schooler.
 

Chris Lockwood

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Just once I want to hear a judge say "I wasn't too happy with that choreography" rather than the mindless praise they dish out every single time.
 

Josh Dial

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Last season, there were actually a few incidents where I remember Nigel specifically critiquing the choreography.
 

Hanson

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Yes, specifically Wade's "Foxes" routine with Sabra and Lacey. And guess what? He declined to do any pairs choreo this year.

They did take subtle swipes at Cicley and Olisa this year. Perhaps they don't want them back next year.
 

James Lee

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To me, the competition is Katee's to lose. She is simply amazing, and to think she almost didn't make it past Vegas.

The two-step routine was painful to watch. I like Mark, but it's become obvious to me that if he doesn't have a clearly defined character to play, he flounders a bit when he has to rely solely on his dance technique. I agree that Josh was a man's man in the rhumba. Courtney pales in comparison to Katee, but she and Josh were smoking hot in that dance. Again, Josh's hip action is phenomenal. I really liked his solo as well. Very entertaining and I wanted to see a lot more than the two minutes or so they gave to the solos. Comfort/Twitch sucked in the waltz. I didn't see much waltzing in that routine. The only highlight was knowing Twitch had to goose Comfort's behind at the end on that lift. Their hip hop routine was okay, but I expected a LOT more considering on paper they should have been a hip hop dream team.

As others have noticed, there have been a number of dances that faltered because of weak choreography. It's too bad the judges have to skewer the contestants unfairly because they don't want to criticize the choreographers.

Anything can happen now that the eliminations are totally based on viewer votes instead of the judges. If it were up to me, I'd send Comfort home. Of the guys, it's more of a toss up. Either Gev, Mark or Twitch.
 

Patrick Sun

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Looks like 1 solid performance kept Comfort on the show while 2 so-so performances by Kherington dropped her to the bottom. Kherington was even a tad off in the Mia Michaels routine.

I was actually surprised to notice that Mark was almost as tall as Twitch because he sort of dances his solos in contorted positions. Also a little surprised that Mark survived while Gev was dismissed tonight.
 

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