Showtime's "Shameless" (1 Viewer)

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by mattCR

Yeah, kind of.. the "double life" gets way more complicated. There has been a lot of talk that they won't follow the S2 "Steve and Fiona run away and don't come back" storyline. I hope that is true.

Not sure if that should be spoilerized. But jeez...talk about changing the complexion of a show.

 

[Kevin Hewell]

It sure changed the UK show when it happened. I want Fiona to hang around in this version. I think that's where the original dropped the ball.


I'm really liking this version. They're changing it up enough to keep me interested. They're keeping the best bits, though.

 

[mattCR]

I loved the first two seasons of Shameless UK, but after S2, it went off the rails; and Season 4 was very hard for me to watch. It's kind of become a self-parody in late seasons. *shrug* If they can come up with a way to diverge at S2, I think they will be better off for it.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

If Emmy Rossum doesn't win an Emmy for yesterday's episode, they should just stop handing them out.

 

[mattCR]

Her performance was stunning. Actually, I thought the entire episode came across with such force that I was amazed. I can now completely stop comparing to the UK version, because the tone last night so quickly shifted that it felt as though you were going to snap your legs off at the knees. Rossum was phenomenal getting her point across, and you felt the emotion as she stormed out and confronted Monica and couldn't get them to understand that she was the adult of the house.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by mattCR

Rossum was phenomenal getting her point across, and you felt the emotion as she stormed out and confronted Monica and couldn't get them to understand that she was the adult of the house.

More than just the adult of the house -- the parent of the house. Biologically speaking, Liam is her half-brother. But for all intents and purposes, Liam is her son. And so is Carl. And Debbie's basically her daughter. Her relationship with Lip and Ian is more complex, since they're closer to her age. Monica coming in and trying to take Liam away would be like a distant relation coming in and trying to take your son away. The only connection Monica has to Liam is chromosomal.


Judging by Frank's sober episode, I get the impression that he was the functional parent before he plunged into alcoholism. Even when Monica was present, I get the impression that she wasn't really present.


It's nice that this show can get serious when it needs to.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I was surprised the mother showed up with a few episodes to go this season, I figured she'd show up in a cliffhanger season finale episode.


Anyhoo, good episode, though those kids (i.e. Debbie) really know how to get around on their own, frightening.

 

[MarkMel]

Very good ep. The mother coming in and wanting to take the baby, unreal. Although if they took the emotional attachment out, it might be better for both sides in the long run, one less mouth to feed etc.


When Monica showed up I kept hearing - "Sidney, what about the farewell drugs? Sidney"

 

[ScottH]

Emmy Rossum's great performance aside, this was probably my least favorite episode. I think the reasons you all liked it were the reasons I didn't as much...it got too heavy. This is lightfare comedy viewing for me.

 

[mattCR]

"Whores don't get cars!!!"


I will admit, I can't think of any other time I have laughed that hard. This show rotates between laugh out loud funny and desperately sad. Tonights episode was a big divergence from the UK, and I appreciated it. Rossum is giving some absolutely blockbuster performances here. There is nothing on TV right now with as juicy of a female role.





(Note this moment isn't PG-13, so Not Work Safe, but VERY funny)


But the swing in this show is that it goes from this scene, and when he calls her out as above, the first thought in my head was that I had to laugh; it was shockingly funny. But when we see her return to her home, in tears, feeling as though she had been shamed by her father "I thought he loved me", that entire sequence played out a real touch to it. She wanted redemption, to feel loved, and while her choices weren't what her father wanted, his public dressing down of her after promising that this would be a second chance in their life together highlighted his complete hypocrisy. He was willing to forgive her, until he knew what the sins were, and then forgiveness became conditional. He had pulled the rug out from under her.


The fact that Sheila chased him out into the street to confront him, to tell him to get back because of her love for her daughter was a great moment. And Frank pointing out to her that she had broken the barrier and overcome her agoraphobia and was outside..


Really great stuff.

But week after week, Rossum is turning in the best female performances on TV.. and it's not even a competition, she's basically lapping the field. This year has been very weak for real lead female roles, and she tears into this one.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by mattCR

But the swing in this show is that it goes from this scene, and when he calls her out as above, the first thought in my head was that I had to laugh; it was shockingly funny. But when we see her return to her home, in tears, feeling as though she had been shamed by her father "I thought he loved me", that entire sequence played out a real touch to it. She wanted redemption, to feel loved, and while her choices weren't what her father wanted, his public dressing down of her after promising that this would be a second chance in their life together highlighted his complete hypocrisy. He was willing to forgive her, until he knew what the sins were, and then forgiveness became conditional. He had pulled the rug out from under her.

Yeah, as soon as you realize she's not just manipulating her father for the car, it goes from being funny to extremely sad. It not only makes you hate her father with the vengeance she hates him with, but


really made me hope they don't go down the path of having Frank have an affair with Karen. What would have been a Lolita-esque story line, making me uncomfortable but tolerable, really would paint Frank in an unforgivable light after seeing the scene in the basement.


I loved the revelation that Liam is actually Frank's son; that sort of thing has been known to happen. "I always heard that Nana Gallagher..."


If the show does it right, Sheila won't be suddenly cured of her agoraphobia. It just doesn't work like that. Going outside in that moment of anger was a definite breakthrough moment, but with a real agoraphobic there'd be a lot of work before the person is comfortable outside their safe place, however they define it. I've known agoraphobics that can't leave their house, like Sheila, and I've known agorophobics with a range as large as their home cities.


Fiona's comment about how she should have gotten custody when Monica left and Frank was so broken he'd sign anything is very telling. Frank's done a lot of damage to Monica over the years, but Monica's done a lot of damage to Frank, too. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the times she took off first triggered her alcoholism. I also liked that Frank was noticeably drunker at the dinner than during the rest of the episode. Just like Fiona, he had to get inebriated to face Monica.


After the last two episodes, I don't see how:


they can plausibly write Steve and Fiona out after next season. I just can't buy that this Fiona would pick up and leave and abandon her siblings. I hope they take a very different direction.

 

[Kevin Hewell]

Now this is how you do an American version of a hit Brit show.


I really love the relationship between Lip and Ian. The two actors work really well off each other. As good as Emmy Rossum is, the actor who plays Lip is doing a great job as well.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Kevin Hewell

Now this is how you do an American version of a hit Brit show.

I tend to agree. A lot of the base storyline is there, but they have changed the characters enough and made it American that they preserve the core concept and yet make it fresh. I have been really surprised at how good this has been to revisit a show I loved the UK version of. And I find the US version is at times a lot more "gripping" the drama moments have far more weight. But everyone has turned in some fantastic performances. They aren't copying the UK versions, they are their own unique roles and they play them very well.

Yeah, as soon as you realize she's not just manipulating her father for the car, it goes from being funny to extremely sad. It not only makes you hate her father with the vengeance she hates him with, but

As to your spoiler, they've said they aren't doing that in this version, so that's another big change. But I found that entire sequence to make a remarkable transition from one of the funnier moments I've seen on TV to really sad. You think at first she's just using him to get a car. And then you realize when she's in the basement and she cries about thinking he loved her.. getting a car was the carrot. And she was honestly willing to consider changing her life for her fathers approval. And yet, he goes and trashes her in public and calls her out, and his role in her life is over.


I thought it was a very effective change from the UK version and enjoyed it a lot.

 

[mattCR]

Headfake! After repeatedly implying this wouldn't go in a certain direction, they absolutely went there tonight.. now we get to see how this cashes out in the season finale next week. Stunned silence, actually.

 

[Spero D]

Holy crap what an ep.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Interesting that they brought things to a head with Steve so quickly. Is Justin Chatwin going to leave the show after one season? If so, they'll have to take a whole different direction with Fiona next season.


I love Debbie's foul mouth. She's probably the sweetest of the characters, so it's the little touches that remind you that, yes, she was raised in the Gallagher household. I also loved Frank's take your kids to world day trying to find a good workman's comp target.


Favorite moment? Split between Ian and Lip discovering that Frank has an identical twin, and the prison meeting with their grandmother, who manages to be both grandmotherly and a hardass prison bitch. "Well, the food's not so great, but the p*$$¥'s pretty good." Seeing her explains volumes about how Frank ended up the way he did. It turns out Frank actually has improved over the previous generation of parenting. (And yes, that is Oscar winner Louise Fletcher, Nurse Ratched herself, as their gram)

Originally Posted by mattCR

Headfake! After repeatedly implying this wouldn't go in a certain direction, they absolutely went there tonight.. now we get to see how this cashes out in the season finale next week. Stunned silence, actually.

The crucial difference between the UK version and US version is that in the UK version, Frank's carrying on this kinky little affair with Karen. He's taking advantage of her daddy issues to get a little teenage trim. In the US version, Karen pins Frank -- stoned out of his mind on beer and oxycontin -- and use him as ammunition in her scorched earth war against her father. In the UK version, Karen's the victim. In the US version, Frank's the victim. That makes a huge difference in how you view Frank.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Please spoilerize the British comparisons, not everyone has seen the UK version.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun

Please spoilerize the British comparisons, not everyone has seen the UK version.

My apologies. I didn't consider it a spoiler since the stuff with Frank/Karen in both versions is past-tense from where we are in the story. I'll be more careful in the future.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Not everone has seen the original UK version, so it was becoming a minefield (for non-UK version viewers) with anticipation of UK storylines that might or might not show up in the US version. Thanks for understanding.

 

[ScottH]

So what's up with Brad William Henke now showing up in 3 different television shows (on 3 different networks) simultaneously?