Sell the Paradigm Servo 15 for SVS Ultra?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve Morgan, Oct 27, 2001.

  1. Steve Morgan

    Steve Morgan Second Unit

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    I originally had the Servo 15a and decided I needed another sub to compliment the Servo so I ordered a 20-39Cs which is powered by 1 channel from a Parasound 2205a amp.I have the B&K Ref 30 pre/pro so I notched one of my problem frequencies which was in the 56hz area my other problem is at 22hz where there is a 15db. drop or valley. From other posts it says its easier to equalize like subs and corner load them.I know how nice SVS subs are being an owner but the Paradigm sub is no slouch and a great performer to.Any feedback is helpful.My setup is as folows:
    Amps= Parasound 2003a & 2205a
    Speakers=Von Schweikert VR3.5's L/R, Center LCR35, Surrounds TS350(on the way) Paradigm ADP450's
    Monitor TW40X81 ISf'd by Carliner
    DVD=Panny RP-91
    Pre/Pro=B&K Ref 30
    Subs=Paradigm Servo 15a & SVS 20-39cs
    Line conditioner=Vansevers Model 85
    DSS=Dish 6000 reciever
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  2. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    How can you sell a svs ultra if you don't have one?
    I couldn't really understand what you were wanting from your post, but I think the servo 15 is a great sub as I also own one. I am thinking of adding a 2nd servo 15 next year.
    Aaron
     
  3. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    I believe that Steve's title should read:
    "Sell the Paradigm Servo 15 for SVS Ultra?".
     
  4. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Steve I cannot really answer your question since I have not listened to either of these subs...but how does your Servo generally compare to the SVS 20-39? Does this SVS have a major performance advantage over the Servo?
    Also I would like to ask you another question: in choosing your equipment, do you feel that it would have been better in the long run to 1) get cheaper (ie. less expensive) mains and more subwoofer power with your money...or 2) get more expensive mains and less subwoofer power (relatively) with your money? Keep in mind that I am talking about the overall HT experience, as well as the music experience. Thanks.
     
  5. Will Gibbons

    Will Gibbons Agent

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    Steve,
    Nice system. Have you stacked the 20-39CS on the Servo-15, simply placed in close proximity or in separate corners? If you haven't tried stacking them near a corner, recommend you try it. I liked the result doing that with a Servo-15 and 20-39PC. I kept the Servo-15 nearly 1.5' from each wall--bass seemed boomy in my area if I moved too close into corner.
    How large an area is this? If I would do any changes, I would actually consider changing the 20-39CS for an Ultra and getting optional tuning caps. You would have significant output and capability for very low effects.
    Good luck,
    Will
     
  6. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Steve, you should try to find out if one,or both of the subs are victim to the huge response issues(the one peak and the big dip)you mentioned. Try running the same tests with each subwoofer playing by itself. Both units are high quality and have the potential to stay relatively flat to the upper teens in most rooms. Since you have them in different locations in the room though...it's possible one or the other could be more severely affected by room induced response issues. If you find one is much LESS affected by the room at it's location...try putting both in that location.This is one important inherent advantage to seperate woofin(being able to experiment with placement options)so you should try to take full advantage of it [​IMG]
    TV
     
  7. Steve Morgan

    Steve Morgan Second Unit

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    Sorry guys about the post.It should read sell Servo 15 for the Ultra CS. My room is 4500 sq ft.Thanks for the info Tom. I am going to try this tomorrow.
    About buying expensive mains or cheaper mains and going with a great sub. I feel that my mains though capable of mid 30's bass,this also includes the center channel are not capable of giving me that high impact that dvd's can provide when it comes to action and adventure movies or any with sub 30hz content. With the woofs doing the work it gives my amps a chance to bring out the mids and top end in these speakers.Dialog and music scores as well as DVD audio sounds awesome.I just upgraded from a Paradigm Reference setup, Studio 100's/CC450/Active 20's and the ADp's.A very nice system but the Von Schweikerts take it to another level.The clarity,dynamics and imaging is nothing short of fantastic matching speakers at 3 times the price.I do like bass but why not try to have the best that you can afford in bass,mid bass, and treble?If I had to do it again I would have bypassed the Paradigms and went straight to the Von Schweikerts.Once again thanks for the help and advice. Sorry about screwing up the post.
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  8. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Steve I believe that you would recommend, for the most "desireable" results in the long run, that one get the "best" mains that they can afford and then add extra woofage (ie. external subs) later on or whenever feasible. Is this assessment correct? Do you feel that such a setup would have an overall advantage over a setup with "cheaper" mains with even more external subs which would give you more headroom down low than the previously mentioned setup? Thanks again!
     
  9. Mike Voigt

    Mike Voigt Supporting Actor

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    Header changed...
    The Von Schweikert speaker line is very nice. I had a chance to listen to a stereo hookup a while back, and came away quite impressed...!
    Mike
     
  10. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

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    Another hijacking under way, I see.
    Steve, I thought the rationale for your equipment change was to make both of your subs identical to simplify equalization. If you sell the Paradigm and obtain an SVS Ultra, wouldn't that still leave you with two non-identical units (a CS and an ultra?). Wayne's commentary in the other thread are probably as right on as you'll find on the forum.
    The problem with non-identical subs and equalization is that the dips and peaks in frequency response are not at the same places for the two subs. That means running both off the same EQ settings doesn't address each ones response problems. You have to first EQ each sub by itself and then check the results of the two together then go back and readjust the two equalizers to get them working together. With identical subs placed together, the responses for the two are close enough that both can be run and adjusted off a single EQ.
    While you are doing the FFT analysis you may as well check if a slightly altered seating position helps things. That would be easy enough to check by moving the sampling mic around and seeing what the frequency response does. This is something that just begs for a FFT program and mic to help speed progress.
    [Edited last by Guy Kuo on October 28, 2001 at 05:53 AM]
     
  11. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Another hijacking under way, I see.
    Steve, I thought the rationale for your equipment change was to make both of your subs identical to simplify equalization. If you sell the Paradigm and obtain an SVS Ultra, wouldn't that still leave you with two non-identical units (a CS and an ultra?). Wayne's commentary in the other thread are probably as right on as you'll find on the forum.
    The problem with non-identical subs and equalization is that the dips and peaks in frequency response are not at the same places for the two subs.> That means running both off the same EQ settings doesn't address each ones response problems. You have to first EQ each sub by itself and then check the results of the two together then go back and readjust the two equalizers to get them working together. With identical subs placed together, the responses for the two are close enough that both can be run and adjusted off a single EQ.While you are doing the FFT analysis you may as well check if a slightly altered seating position helps things. That would be easy enough to check by moving the sampling mic around and seeing what the frequency response does. This is something that just begs for a FFT program and mic to help speed progress.
     
  12. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    I just realized I never commented on the original question comparing a 15 to a CS_U,
    I think 20-39cs would be equal or slightly better than a single servo15(based on the TN data for both)...and I think a CS_U would have a 3dB advantage in clean output across the board...growing as the freqs drop to about 6-8dB in the 16-24hz half octave.(compared to the 20-39).
    I wouldn't spend any more until you're sure you have the current setup optimized though...with your type of open/L shaped room...it's going to be very tough to really energize the room with *hair standing on end* low bass.
    TV
     
  13. Will Gibbons

    Will Gibbons Agent

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    Tom,
    You indicated "I think it would be best to find the ideal spot for one sub...and just stack the 20-39cs on the top of the CS_U at that spot." I interpretted this to mean stack the 20-39CS on top of the Servo-15 since that is what is currently owned, but it does raise a question for me. Would you recommend stacking SVS subs on each other? Would covering the top of one of the subs this way have any down side?
    Regards,
    Will
     
  14. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Yeah, it should had said 20-39 on top of the servo15.
    If you were seriously thinking of this, try a search for OBI's tower of power. He stacked dual 25-31s using some custom made standoff plates.
    TV
     
  15. Steve Morgan

    Steve Morgan Second Unit

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    Bob, I think the best route would be to go with the best Mains and Center you can afford then add the external woofage.Reason being is that the mains and center will be great for Music/Sacd/DVD-A and the same for HT. Also, you won't have to fight the upgrade bug for quite some time.
    Guy, My reasoning for getting the SVS U was it would be about the same basic design as the 20-39cs which Tom confirmed and not as different as the Servo to the 20-39.I am going to download the spectra program today and the first rainy day spend it playing with adjustments and measurement.Be ready for questions on how to operate the program.Due to just ordering the Von Schweikert new surrounds I was looking for a cheaper way to match the subs,selling both and buying the Ultra package would probably set me back 8 bills where selling the Servo and buying the Ultra would probably set me back 4 bills,plus I have to buy an equalizer.
    Tom, How do you stack the subs? Doesn't it effect the bottom sub?How stable are they stacked? I Guess I would have to buy a bigger Ficus tree to hide the subs. This was the only way I got buy with the 20-39. The SAF is in play here big time!Everyone I sure appreciate the advice and expert feedback. This is what makes this site great!!
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  16. Mike Voigt

    Mike Voigt Supporting Actor

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