Secrets shootout is misleading (1 Viewer)

[Ben Hanrahan]

Juan_R,

again, this is easy to say....I'm sure many would disagree. And I agree with you...it's just 1's and 0's....so what the hell's the difference?

 

[Phil Nichols]

Juan,

Shootout 1 or 2 talked about the Faroudja FLI2200 deinterlacer chip (now in the RP82) versus the Silicon Image Si503 deinterlacer chip (one revision back from that in the Denon 2800MKII/3800/9000) - comparing deinterlacing between the Faroudja and Silicon Image.

The Si deinterlacer has an edge on film material (what most of us, but not all, watch) over the Faroudja chip.

Hence my reference to Shootout 1/2 in the same post as RP82.

 

[Peter Loan]

I've noticed differences in audio between DVD players. I've compared the audio from the Toshiba 4800, Panasonic RP82, and JVC SA600, and the digital audio from the JVC was considerably better. I have no idea why this is the case but it lead me to keep the JVC. For the vast majority of what I watch, the JVC is comparable to the Panasonic, to my eyes anyways. Along with write ups such as the shootout, I think people need to use common sense and prioritize their own needs in a player. I'm definitely not one of the drones who have flocked to the RP-82 just because of one excellent writeup.

 

[Len Cheong]

I'm finding that the RP82 is quite sensitive to the dvd in question. If it's mastered wonderfully like Shakespeare in Love, Fifth Element, Behind Enemy Lines, Exit Wounds, to name a few, the picture can be breathtakingly sharp and vibrant. The colors however may not be as filmlike as Sony dvd players and tend to be on the warm side (reds and yellow tones seem to shine through more). I'm also finding that in shadowy scenes, depending on the disc, you may not see everything unless you turn up the black levels. An example is Lord of The Rings during the Balrog chase. It might be the capability of the player to produce blacker than black. Someone mentioned that it's at O IRE as opposed to 7.5 IRE when in the Normal/Auto1 setting . I found however that in some movies like Behind Enemy Lines where there are a lot of dark scenes, I never had that problem. I could see everything without increasing the brightness. Regarding the sharpness, if the movie has a lot of grain, like Brotherhood of the Wolf, Minority Report , AI or even Saving Private Ryan, you'll see more of it. I tried utilizing the noise reduction but the picture took on an artificial look. I just switched my RPTV to movie as opposed to Standard.

The sound is an improvement , though, from my S7000. Everything from the panning to the general levels of base and surround L, R. B material. My DC2 seemed to have come alive.

Overall, I would say its impressive for the price and worth every penny considering the improvements I've mentioned. Just my 8 cents.

 

[Sach]

The Si deinterlacer has an edge on film material (what most of us, but not all, watch) over the Faroudja chip.

If that;s the case the Denon 3800 should be on top as most watch the film based material.

Instead the 3800 is not even "480p" recommended by the shoot out.

 

[Mike Matheson]

The "it's just 1's and 0's" has been debated here many times before (and jitter, etc.).

DD and DTS signals use a packet structure (different than PCM, i.e. the 2 chn digital music output) which largely eliminates jitter beteen the data exiting the DVD player and arriving at the processor/receiver.

 

[Juan_R]

The only difference that I have heard with all the DVD players I have had, is that for some reason some seem louder at the same volume setting than others when going thru the digital outputs.

I'm definitely not one of the drones who have flocked to the RP-82 just because of one excellent writeup.

Yes it is only one write up but lets not forget that these guys who are doing the write up are not being payed for there work and have nothing to gain by promoting certain players. I have yet to read a bad review on a player on any magazine, they are all to scare about loosing advertisement dollars. And that is why I have a lot of respect for Don and Stacey's shootout.

 

[Brent Hutto]

As for one DVD player having a warm color bias versus another and so forth, don't most people calibrate their display/player combination at the same time? By which I mean that you hook up the DVD player to the TV and use Avia or Video Essentials to calibrate the TV. While there could still be some residual differences in color mapping I'd expect them to be very hard to detect.

As for DD 5.1 or DTS audio sounding better or worse or louder or whatever, that really isn't possible if you piping the digital signal to your receiver for decoding.

Finally, as for Ben Hanrahan this is the first time I've encoutered him on this forum. I'll know better than to respond to one of his trolls next time. My mistake, live and learn.

 

[CraigF]

Wait a minute here...the RP82 was hugely anticipated when it was introduced at last years CES. It has been raved about everywhere since July. It has been practically unavailable since early December. Secrets published their review only about 2 weeks ago. I really don't see the OP's point at all, must have been living under an HT rock.

 

[ReggieW]

There are those out there, in fact, quite a few on this forum who take into account more than picture quality when they are spending good money on a player like the Sony 999es or Denon DVD-3800. I have seen and heard them both, and must say that they are OUTSTANDING audio components with very solid construction. In my opinion, the RP-82 isn't in the same league as these players when it come to analog audio reproduction. As someone pointed out earlier, there are many people who have a preference for the Silicon Image 503-504 chips over the Faroudja based ones with film material. This is not "right" or "wrong," just the preference of some - like me. Yes, those who are only budgeted to spend $200.00, then the RP-82 is a GREAT buy - no doubt, but this does not make those who want more in a package "stupid" or "misguided."

Reg

 

[Ben Hanrahan]

Brent Hutto,

I have never before singled anyone out on this form, and you can see I've been here for over 4 years. I try to get answers, I try to enlighten, I don't care to single somebody out if their style is a little different. I might be blunt, but I'm just hoping for answers...you think I don't understand the 1's and 0's debate???? Fact is I do, but until it's been proven to me, I won't pass judgement.

I know a lot about home theater, but I don't pretend to know it all. I'm not on here to annoy people and I doubt that I'm a troll....so, if you don't like what I post, don't read it.

 

[Jagan Seshadri]

Ben doesn't sound like a troll to me. It sounds like he is honestly irked by the transport noise and build quality of the RP82.

Think of it this way: would you go to all the trouble setting up a home theater and then go buy an electric toothbrush and turn it on while watching a movie? You would not.

I am glad Ben has brought this honest observation. I suspected that there had to be some weak point for a player that inexpensive.

Beware of groupthink.

-JNS

 

[CraigF]

He got a bad one...I returned a unit for a VERY noisy motor in August. I could hear it over 30' away in another room, I could hear it with low dialogue playing from 12' away. I can assure you this is not common, and personally I think a lot of the bum ones are in Canada, based on my experience and what I read. I posted a lot about this around October, say the SPoT and later on AVS, if interested, to save me typing. Of course they're cheaply built, so are ones 3 times the price, you gotta pay real $$$ to get something really well built these days. Open 'em up for a scare, and supposedly it's going to get worse...

There is no groupthink, just a lot of people who missed the boat when RP82's were plentiful, but didn't bother to check them out because "something this cheap couldn't have good PQ"...some sour grapes? I can assure you, there are much much more expensive players with very noticeably worse PQ. The RP82 has a flimsy build, and my scathing posts about that were deleted by the moderators wherever I posted them...so you'll just have to believe me that I noticed the poor build. And then I checked out the PQ competitors...

 

[DaleI]

Reg, you said it perfect. My view: shootouts/reviews/tests serve a purpose but are in the end subjective. Checkout any issue of Audio Video Interiors or even Home Theater magazine and read how even the editors can't agree on which RPTV set has the best picture and so forth.
Yes, the 82 is a very good dvd player in its class-no question.

My two cents

 

[Kwang Suh]

Buyer's remorse.

Don't like it? Take it back.

 

[DaleI]

I should add: I wish I could afford a high end dvd player like some of the ones featured in A/V Interiors. Soon...

 

[John Kotches]

Dale,

You said this:

My view: shootouts/reviews/tests serve a purpose but are in the end subjective.

Would you mind telling me which part of each of the following were subjective:

• Measured accuracy to 100IRE and 0 IRE
• Pixel cropping count on all sides
• Chroma channel timings
• Frame Counts to return to film mode on improperly flagged material
• Most of the other tests

In short, this is one of the most objective tests assembled for DVD testing.

If you want to read how great Superbit Fifth Element looked this month in AV Interiors or HT Mag or even SGHT or TPV go right ahead. None of them look at tricky material.

It's the tricky material that teaches everybody something.

Regards,

 

[MikeSRC]

I have to agree with CraigF. If the transport is noisy during playback then something's wrong. Mine makes some noise during chapter changes, but it's dead silent during normal playback.

As far as the Shootout is concerned, the new rating system makes it easy for you to determine how each player would rate based on what's most important to you!

Don't care about the chroma bug? Weight it at "5" instead of "10". You can go through the entire rating list and come up with the best rated player for you!

The main thing is that you actually have some solid data to work with in making your decision, as opposed to what you normally see in most A/V magazine reviews.

 

[Eujin]

Having followed the Secrets shootouts since the very first shootout, I must say 2 things:

1. The Secrets Shootout is probably the single most influential DVD player review or guide on the Web--or anywhere else, for that matter.

2. It's also the most objective and scientifically conducted survey of its kind.

The amount of information presented, along with the copious amounts of documentation that educate and illustrate many of the technical performance issues brought up in DVD player evaluations, are unrivalled. I, for one, will be eternally grateful to all the Secrets staff who've put in the work on this ongoing project--so for all you Secrets folk, a big "Thank You" from me. I simply don't understand why there is any controversy here.

Disclosures: I am in no way associated with Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity. Furthermore, I do not currently own an RP82, though I did own one in the past. It is an excellent machine, but I ultimately preferred my modified JVC XV-S500BK--the picture is just a tad punchier to my eyes and on my projector (especially helped with screendoor issues), plus I really needed the PAL-to-NTSC conversion capabilities.

 

[DaleI]

Sure. When I say "Subjective" I'm NOT referring to the technical specs--that's something that is a constant, it can be duplicated in any lab environment, lab test. What IS subjective is the eyeball perception of what's on the screen. I refer you to the "2002 HDTV Faceoff" in the January 2003 issue of Home Theater magazine, as one (of many) examples. In that face off, five of the Editors couldn't agree which HDTV had the best PQ. Five different people, five different perceptions.

When you strip away all the technical specs, which are obviously important, it is, afterall, what we
see and hear on the screen that really matters [read: perceives]: Perception is something that cannot be duplicated from lab to lab. My eyes may perceive the 82 as having the best PQ, but maybe your eyes will perceive the (insert a model) as having the best PQ. Two more analogies: xBox vs. PS2 or better yet, suppose your friend raves about the specs on his new car, but to you it drives like sX%&, your perception is your reality.

The 82 is obviously a very good player in its class. Forgive me for stating the obvious.

Just My view,
Dale