Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (9 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

By the way, in regards to "Sol", I always wondered about that. In looking up Sol, it's the latin word for Sun, used in Science Fiction when the writer wants to distinguish our Sun from others according to Wikipedia.

I took a basic astronomy class and I never recalled the term Sol being used.

 

[FanCollector]

What is the "prime universe"?I never heard Sol used in any other context either, which was why it stood out for me. I guess other science fiction examples of the same kind must exist.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee,

Sorry if the Prime Universe terminology is new to you. It refers to the Star Trek world we know of that was established with the original Star Trek all the way up to the sequel series and the Star Trek Nemesis film. Then the JJ Abrams film established the Alternative Universe. (And then everything went wacko!)

Then of course you know of the Mirror Universe where there's a Spock with a beard.

 

[FanCollector]

What kind of terminology is this? Where's my personal guard?Thanks for the definition. I'll take the easy one, then: Metamorphosis.

 

[Nelson Au]

I cannot answer any of your questions at this time.

However, the question at hand is asking to place the appearances of Cochrane in correct chronological order as he appears in each episode and film from his earliest appearance in the Star Trek timeline to his last appearance in the timeline. Not by when he appears in an episode that was aired first for example. I hope that sort of clears it up.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

What a good question! I think Cochrane's first appearance (chronologically) is in Broken Bow (ENT). Does Regeneration (ENT) come next, and then In A Mirror, Darkly (pt. 1) (ENT)? I think then he appears in Metamorphosis (TOS), and finally in Star Trek: First Contact. It seems like I am missing a few examples, however.

He is also discussed in other episodes of ENT, but I am not recalling which episodes at the moment. I believe These Are The Voyages may be one of them, but I don't think he appears physically in that episode.

 

[Nelson Au]

Scott, you got all the episodes and film right, plus one episode I wasn't counting. (Regeneration) But not the order.

Think about each appearance as a different part in his life, and which came earliest and latest.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

I don't think I will be able to do this given that I can't be specific with regard to dates without looking them up. I know about some dates (2150 and 2051 in ENT and of course, the importance of April 5th, 2063). Would Star Trek: First Contact be his first appearance in the timeline for your question?

 

[FanCollector]

And would Metamorphosis be last?

 

[Ockeghem]

And would Metamorphosis be last?

Lee,

If I understand Nelson's criteria correctly, I believe so.

 

[Nelson Au]

Guys,I wasn't thinking of exact dates, just events that had to happen in a specific order based on what we know.We know Cochrane was, or will be the discoverer of the Space Warp and develops Warp Drive. So based on the events in First Contact, that should be the first time we see him in his life as he's about to make his historic flight and break the speed of light.And Metamorphosis is the last time we see him as Kirk discovers him when the Companion takes Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Commisioner Hedford to the planet the rejuvinated Cochrane is being held on.So by elimination, that leaves Star Trek Enterprise's Broken Bow where we see an older Cochrane after the events of First Contact give a speech on the inaugural flight of the Enterprise NX-01, the first Warp 5 capable starship. The way I think the time line goes where we first, second and last see Cochrane is:1. First Contact2. Broken Bow3. Metamorphosis.While we do actually see Cochrane in "In A Mirror Darkly", that is in the Mirror Universe and I was looking for Prime Universe examples. So I'm not sure how to judge this one. Scott got the titles, and in the last post correctly names the first time, Lee correctly named the last. Scott named the second time, but not the correct order. So that tips it to Scott. So you are up next!I was trying to conjure a question that would spread the answers over more then TOS, so it spread to TNG and ENT. And a final thought, what did you guys think of Cochrane as portrayed by James Cromwell in First Contact? I thought it was in direct contrast and perhaps a slap in the face of Glenn Corbett's portrayal. But I suppose we don't really know what Cochrane was like before we see him in Metamorphosis. People change over time. But it was a shock the first time I saw the film.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

I liked James Cromwell as Cochrane, but I didn't care for much of the writing that went into the character. I also liked Cromwell in TNG. I will try to think up a question in the next day or so. In the interim, anyone else may jump in if they have a trivia question to submit.

You may also enjoy this fun image:



I can't embed the video. But if you scroll down a bit on the following link, you'll see an amusing video as well.

http://www.startrek.com/article/shatner-the-gorn-together-again

 

[Nelson Au]

Scott, that's a fair assessment of Cromwell's Cochrane portrayal. It's the way he's written that I found a bit shocking. He's in Enterprise briefly, but I liked him better there. I'll be checking that episode out tonight hopefully to see!

I saw that game promo with Shatner and the Gorn. I wasn't sure what to think of it. Shatner and Bobby Clark did their best in 1966 and put together a great performance. The promo of course is making some fun with it.

Looking forward to your question.

 

[FanCollector]

Scott, that is absolutely my new favorite photo in the world. (Apologies to my dogs.)In fairness, I didn't see the movie, so I can't comment on Cromwell as Cochrane. I think he is a good actor, about as different from Glenn Corbett as possible though. My general feeling is that I would rather have stories about new characters. (That doesn't apply only to Star Trek.) Zefrem Cochrane was an interesting character in Metamorphosis and he fulfilled his dramatic function there. I wasn't hungering for more Zefrem Cochrane stories, though. The problem is if he is too similar to the original, it seems dull or copied. And if he is too different, then why not just make it the story of some other scientist? It's one thing to do a real sequel when the story warrants it, as with Khan. But ringing the nostalgia bell for its own sake by using old names doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

 

[FanCollector]

I just watched that video. I saw it as profoundly funny. Sort of like "The Sunshine Boys" for ship captains.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee, there is a certain coolness to that image. I must admit you have a point! Shatner and the Gorn, years later.

If you are ever in the mood, you ought to see First Contact. Cochrane was integral to the story. It never felt like a sequel for the character, he was just a part of it. And it never occurred to me he was used for nostalgia. Something I didn't get that sense of.

 

[bryan4999]

I re-watched the first episode of Enterprise again last night (to break in the blu) - and I am wondering - do we ever hear the Klingon language in TOS, or was that invented just for the movies?

Also, is there any Klingon backstory in TOS that would support the events in Enterprise "Broken Bow" episode?

 

[FanCollector]

Good question! Apart from names, I don't recall any Klingon words in the series (apart from the name of the language: Klingonii). The only back story I remember is Yarnek's brief description of Kahless the Unforgettable as setting the standard for his people's tyrannies, and Mara's defense of Klingon brutality as a means of supporting poor planets in their empire.

 

[bryan4999]

Good question! Apart from names, I don't recall any Klingon words in the series (apart from the name of the language: Klingonii).

That's funny! I always thought it was "Klingonese".

 

[Nelson Au]

I think Lee is right as usual. We only see the Klingons speak English on TOS. We do see Klang as a motion picture type Klingon in Enterprise while Kor and Kang and Koloth were not of course. And we meet Kahless on The Next Generation.