Restoring The ‘Mutt & Jeff’ Cartoons For Blu Ray - Kickstarter (1 Viewer)

[Mets2022]

I wouldn't necessarily say that the Mutt And Jeff cartoons were neglected to begin with. As a matter of fact, the M&J cartoons has been undergoing a major restoration for the past six years from the Cartoons On Film banner. From what I heard, there is a blu ray collection already in the works, including newly restored M&J cartoons. So why is this Kickstarter campaign happening despite there's already a M&F collection in production?

 

[RockinPins]

I wouldn't necessarily say that the Mutt And Jeff cartoons were neglected to begin with. As a matter of fact, the M&J cartoons has been undergoing a major restoration for the past six years from the Cartoons On Film banner. From what I heard, there is a blu ray collection already in the works, including newly restored M&J cartoons. So why is this Kickstarter campaign happening despite there's already a M&F collection in production?

I’m not aware of any projects already in the works. Either way, we have access to rare material not found anywhere else so we are working on restoring that batch.

 

[Mets2022]

I’m not aware of any projects already in the works. Either way, we have access to rare material not found anywhere else so we are working on restoring that batch.

Oh, I'm sure you are very well aware of that other project.

 

[RockinPins]

Great news. Will contact you via message.

Thanks again for taking the time to chat! Excited about this project

 

[RockinPins]

Oh, I'm sure you are very well aware of that other project.

Not sure what to tell you there but let the better disc win!

 

[Sam Posten]

Mods are watching this thread closely. Any drama will be instazapped.

 

[RockinPins]

Mods are watching this thread closely. Any drama will be instazapped.

Thanks! I appreciate it!

 

[bigshot]

Not sure what to tell you there but let the better disc win!

It doesn't work like that. People like me who support Thunderbean, Cartoons on Film, and the various rare silent films that turn up on Kickstarters aren't looking for the "best" disk. We know that hundred year old films aren't going to look perfect. One transfer might be better for one thing and another for something different. We support people who help get old and decaying films transferred and released. I will support both your set and Tommy's. Making it an adversarial thing is a huge mistake. There's more than enough room for everyone.

 

[RockinPins]

It doesn't work like that. People like me who support Thunderbean, Cartoons on Film, and the various rare silent films that turn up on Kickstarters aren't looking for the "best" disk. We know that hundred year old films aren't going to look perfect. One transfer might be better for one thing and another for something different. We support people who help get old and decaying films transferred and released. I will support both your set and Tommy's. Making it an adversarial thing is a huge mistake. There's more than enough room for everyone.

I think so too! As long as this stuff gets saved, I’m happy! Thank you kindly!

 

[bigshot]

And remember to give credit to everyone else whose work contributes to yours... The Library of Congress, the UCLA Film and Television Archive, ASIFA-Hollywood, Serge Bromberg, archives like Cineteca Bologna... It's a group effort by a community. It isn't just one person saving the world like Superman. Credit where credit is due.

 

[RockinPins]

And remember to give credit to everyone else whose work contributes to yours... The Library of Congress, the UCLA Film and Television Archive, ASIFA-Hollywood, Serge Bromberg, archives like Cineteca Bologna... It's a group effort by a community. It isn't just one person saving the world like Superman. Credit where credit is due.

I’ll give credit where credit’s due for sure, I’m only working with 2 people on your list though!

 

[bigshot]

Even if you are working directly with two, you are working with more. For instance several Fleischer films were restored by UCLA with funding for the photochemical restoration from ASIFA-Hollywood. The films at UCLA have a title card at the head that lists the organizations responsible for getting the work done on the film elements before you ever thought about doing a video transfer.

 

[RockinPins]

Even if you are working directly with two, you are working with more. For instance several Fleischer films were restored by UCLA with funding for the photochemical restoration from ASIFA-Hollywood. The films at UCLA have a title card at the head that lists the organizations responsible for getting the work done on the film elements before you ever thought about doing a video transfer.

Yup! We credited them on our ‘Somewhere in Dreamland’ restoration here:

 

[RockinPins]

Even if you are working directly with two, you are working with more. For instance several Fleischer films were restored by UCLA with funding for the photochemical restoration from ASIFA-Hollywood. The films at UCLA have a title card at the head that lists the organizations responsible for getting the work done on the film elements before you ever thought about doing a video transfer.

Also the right people will be credited to their appropriate projects. Neither ASIFA nor UCLA have any involvement in the ‘Mutt & Jeff’ project.

 

[ahollis]

I think we need to take a long breath. Any work on past films need to be embraced.

 

[bigshot]

You should include UCLA's credits as well. They put them on the head of the film.

 

[RockinPins]

You should include UCLA's credits as well. They put them on the head of the film.

Fleischer or Mutt and Jeff?

 

[bigshot]

The Fleischer... UCLA generally credits the organizations that financed the photochemical restoration on a head title card. You've followed the formatting of their card on your tail credit on Somewhere In Dreamland, but I think you've left off some of the credits. I don't remember specifically who sponsored that film, but I doubt UCLA was able to finance it all themselves. They usually had to ask for help to do Technicolor because it cost four times what a B&W cartoon would cost to restore.

Photochemical restorations are MUCH larger undertakings than simple digital clean up. Somewhere In Dreamland probably cost as much as $40,000 and most likely took six months to a year to create safety copies of the three B&W negs that make up the film, as well as striking a protection negative and projection print. UCLA doesn't have the money to finance all the work themselves, especially for animation.

In the two decades I served on the Board of Directors of ASIFA-Hollywood, we raised a great deal of money to "adopt" cartoons. A number of the ones we restored were Fleischer films. They would not have been restored without ASIFA's support and film restorationist, Gere Guldin, who worked at UCLA F&TA and served on ASIFA's board.

As I remember it, there was a festival of preservation in Italy that UCLA would send films to. Every year, ASIFA would adopt at least one cartoon for that festival- sometimes several were being worked on at a time. A great deal of time and effort went into the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Preservation Project. Credit should be given for that, and all the others who sponsored the restoration of Fleischer films. There were other organizations that worked with the project too... I remember the Walter Lantz Foundation being credited on a couple of films, I think there was a group in Europe, and several individuals financed the restoration of whole films themselves. All of those were listed on the credit at the head of each individual film.

You might want to go back to the original video transfer UCLA sent you and see if there are credits there that got deleted as you were doing your digital cleanup. I believe TCM has always maintained those head credits whenever they air a film from UCLA. I see them regularly on DVD and blu-ray releases as well. It's cool to add a credit for your video work, but the people who preserved the film elements are the ones that gave you a huge head start. Even though you got a video copy from UCLA and you credit them, there were other people who worked long and hard to make sure these films survived looking as good as they do. Lord knows Viacom/Paramount won't pay for that!

 

[RockinPins]

The Fleischer... UCLA generally credits the organizations that financed the photochemical restoration on a head title card. You've followed the formatting of their card on your tail credit on Somewhere In Dreamland, but I think you've left off some of the credits. I don't remember specifically who sponsored that film, but I doubt UCLA was able to finance it all themselves. They usually had to ask for help to do Technicolor because it cost four times what a B&W cartoon would cost to restore.

Photochemical restorations are MUCH larger undertakings than simple digital clean up. Somewhere In Dreamland probably cost as much as $40,000 and most likely took six months to a year to create safety copies of the three B&W negs that make up the film, as well as striking a protection negative and projection print. UCLA doesn't have the money to finance all the work themselves, especially for animation.

In the two decades I served on the Board of Directors of ASIFA-Hollywood, we raised a great deal of money to "adopt" cartoons. A number of the ones we restored were Fleischer films. They would not have been restored without ASIFA's support and film restorationist, Gere Guldin, who worked at UCLA F&TA and served on ASIFA's board.

As I remember it, there was a festival of preservation in Italy that UCLA would send films to. Every year, ASIFA would adopt at least one cartoon for that festival- sometimes several were being worked on at a time. A great deal of time and effort went into the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Preservation Project. Credit should be given for that, and all the others who sponsored the restoration of Fleischer films. There were other organizations that worked with the project too... I remember the Walter Lantz Foundation being credited on a couple of films, I think there was a group in Europe, and several individuals financed the restoration of whole films themselves. All of those were listed on the credit at the head of each individual film.

You might want to go back to the original video transfer UCLA sent you and see if there are credits there that got deleted as you were doing your digital cleanup. I believe TCM has always maintained those head credits whenever they air a film from UCLA. I see them regularly on DVD and blu-ray releases as well. It's cool to add a credit for your video work, but the people who preserved the film elements are the ones that gave you a huge head start. Even though you got a video copy from UCLA and you credit them, there were other people who worked long and hard to make sure these films survived looking as good as they do.

I don’t want to get my thread shut down for going off topic so maybe this can be discussed in private. Thanks for the info!

 

[ThadK]

The Fleischer... UCLA generally credits the organizations that financed the photochemical restoration on a head title card. You've followed the formatting of their card on your tail credit on Somewhere In Dreamland, but I think you've left off some of the credits. I don't remember specifically who sponsored that film, but I doubt UCLA was able to finance it all themselves. They usually had to ask for help to do Technicolor because it cost four times what a B&W cartoon would cost to restore.


You might want to go back to the original video transfer UCLA sent you and see if there are credits there that got deleted as you were doing your digital cleanup. I believe TCM has always maintained those head credits whenever they air a film from UCLA. I see them regularly on DVD and blu-ray releases as well. It's cool to add a credit for your video work, but the people who preserved the film elements are the ones that gave you a huge head start. Even though you got a video copy from UCLA and you credit them, there were other people who worked long and hard to make sure these films survived looking as good as they do. Lord knows Viacom/Paramount won't pay for that!

There were no such credits in the scan provided by Paramount for Somewhere in Dreamland. The only information provided is that it was a dupe negative created by UCLA in 1992 from a 35mm nitrate print. If there is a complete set of credits, they'd need to be provided to these folks to add. (To the best of my knowledge this is the only one off of a preservation negative.)