Proper amp for Tumult (1 Viewer)

[JesseSilver]

Please don't take this post as a flame! I only speak my opinion (not Stryke's) and it is not intended as anything personal.

My opinion is that while instructions would have been a nice bonus, they should by no means be expected for a product as standard as a speaker. Sure, including the specs may have made sense, but I see no more obligation for them to include instructions on hookup than instructions on box-making for the driver. The idea is that it is a DIY product and that someone buying it is assumed to either already know how to use the product, or to take some risk in learning on that product. There is nothing odd about the AV15 or it's two voice coils. I've never built a DIY speaker, but I'm aware of parallel and serial hookup, so there should be no problem. Instructions may have helped, but being as there is nothing "non-standard" about the way they wired their speakers, I feel like this is something nobody should expect.

Just my two cents, and I could understand how somebody in another position would think differently... my comments are not means personally.

Like Brian said, though, I agree there could have been something wrong with your driver anyway.

 

[Jeffrey Stanton]

Hi Jesse:

We are not all equal here in our understanding of sub wiring, DVCs and such. As far as this being a "DIY" project (the "Y" in DIY referring to "me"), my ONLY part of this project was the connection of the sub to the amp. I paid Acoustic Visions to build the sub FOR me. I could no more "DIY" this sub than the man in the moon, being of extremely limited ability in this respect.

I did not mean to imply or expect anyone to infer that the builders of this sub were in any way obligated to do anything. All I am trying to say is that if and when the next person like myself comes along who never even heard of a DVC until stumbling on this forum, a short note stuck to the sub saying "Insert flap 'A' in slot 'B'" could go a long way towards preventing fried drivers. More specifically, how about "Jump A(-) to B(+) and then tie the amp leads to A(+) and B(-), respectively...(Brian B., do I have it right this time?)

That would not be so difficult. Obligation? No. But it MAY have prevented a clobbered driver and much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Tesla or Marconi I am not. I am a chemist, not an electrical engineer.

 

[JesseSilver]

Jeffrey, I understand what you're saying, but if you have no idea about DVC's or sub wiring, why would you guess at how to hook up your sub without asking anyone? I think the assumption in the areas of DIY are that you already know, or will find out how to do the "D" part of DIY. Stryke doesn't tell you how to hook up their subwoofers because how you want it hooked up will depend on how you're using it. I do completely admit, however, to misreading your earlier posts... I thought you were saying you expected instructions from Stryke. If acoustic visions designed a box for that driver and you bought everything from them, then yes, they should probably tell you how to assemble it. At any rate, I'm sorry you went through all the trouble you have. Honestly. I hope you get your new sub working to your satisfaction!!

 

[Brian Bunge]

Jeff,

Yes, you got the series wiring correct this time! I'm glad I could do my part in helping you at least understand why you had problems with the AV15/Rythmik amp and help you to hook up the Tumult properly.

 

[Kyle Richardson]

As stated earlier in this thread there was a miscommunication in the fact that we thought we were straight in the explanation of how to wire/connect the sub. Yes, written instructions would have solved this issue.
Jeff's sub was one of the last that we completely assembled for customers trying to bring back a little of the "Y" in "DIY" as Jeff states. We still supply completed enclosures but will only ship the electronics loose so the customer can install them. If somebody wants a completely finished plug and play sub they can choose from the Pinnacle series.

As to not turn this into a support thread for Acoustic Visions or Stryke Audio on a public forum I'll not reply further unless its a general question.

PS - Sorry I havent been very active in this thread to help solve the problems, I've been very busy rolling out a new website and forum and have not been on the forums too much lately.

 

[Jeffrey Stanton]

Hi Jesse:

Like Kyle said, they built/assembled the whole sub for me. But never mind all that...I put a 50 Hz FMOD in-line with my LFE befor the pre-amp and put on Fleetwood Mac's Dolby Digital DVD "The Dance" followed by A/C DC's "Stiff Upper" DTS DVD. HOLY SMOKES THIS SUB ROCKS!! I have never heard anything even remotely like this before. The whole idea behind having Kyle design a custom sub for me was to find something would keep up with the K-Horns in my system. This does it.

I do not have an Avia test disk yet so I used the DTS cannon shots at the end of "For Those About to Rock" as a gauge. I turned the Yamaha volume up to about 9:30, and had the gain on the Mackie pegged as well as the pre-amp volume. Red lights flashing about 1 or 2 times a second.

At one meter I was getting an average 111-115 dB for most of the song, and the cannon shots at the end made the meter flash 120 (overrange) at the meter's highest setting.


How do I determine the optimal cross-over point for this sub?

Can I use my BFD as a substitute for a cross-over?

Thanks,

Jeffrey Stanton

 

[Dan Hine]

How do I determine the optimal cross-over point for this sub?

By determining first the usable extension of your main speakers and comparing that to the crossover options of your preamp. But the first thing I would do is take that FMOD out and put it in a drawer labeled "things that should only be used for car audio."

Out of curiosity, what did you use to calibrate your system?

- Dan

 

[Jeffrey Stanton]

Hey there Dan:

I used the cannon shots in AC/DC's DTS DVD "For Those About to Rock".

Actually, it's not even calibrated. I don't have a test tone disk yet. My Yamaha has built-in test tones but they only go down to 35 Hz. The only measurements I've had time to take as of yet were the one's I took last night that I mentioned above just for grins to see what kind of output I was getting.

I suppose I could use my Behringer Ultra-Curve to RTA/Auto-EQ the thing until I get a test tone disk and get some measurements taken.

As far as the 50 Hz FMOD, I will dispose of that as soon as I figure out how to get around the lack of a crossover. The sub sounds a lot more defined right now with the 50 Hz low pass in place as opposed to running the sub off of the Yamaha's unfiltered LFE (crossover fixed at 90 Hz).

After I determine how the main's bass rolls off, can I use a BFD to integrate the sub with the mains as opposed to using a crossover?

 

[Dan Hine]

can I use a BFD to integrate the sub with the mains as opposed to using a crossover?

I don't own one but it is my understanding that the BFD is used as an EQ to flatten out your bass response. By flattening out your response curve you would likely notice a smoother transition from speakers to sub...but it will not replace the crossover in your Yamaha. But I don't own a BFD so I don't know what else it is capable of.

- Dan Hine

 

[Brian Bunge]

I haven't hooked up my BFD yet, but I believe closely spaced filters with lots of cut can act as a XO. I think others have done this but I don't remember the steps involved.

 

[Brian-K-Owens]

My processor has a 100Hz lowpass sub output, then I use two bands of the BFD; one at 1.6kHz, and one at 2.0kHz. Both bands are set at the full "120" bandwidth. The gain on the 2.0kHz is set at -48. I set the gain on the 1.6kHz at around -32. I actually set the 1.6kHz with the mains and subs playing music. I started with it set at -48, and increased until the subs and mains blended nicely. Sounds GREAT, and the subs play nothing but sub-bass. With just the subs on, you can not even tell what song is playing unless you know the beat!!!


Brian

 

[Jeffrey Stanton]

Tumults Rule.

P.S. Thanks for all the handy advice, guys....

 

[Jeffrey Stanton]

Hey Kyle Richardson:

After having had a chance the past couple days to hear the Tumult in action, I think it's probably a lot better driver than you were letting on...

P.S. It's also much scarier looking than the AV-15.