Previous HTiB owner going DiY (1 Viewer)

[sirMAXX]

its seems to be a real common conundrum, "what should i buy?".

I know that to get an impressive home theater can be a cool $20,000 when it's worth doing right. i still want to do my movies justice but as much as i would love to get the complete theater feel, i just can't, i simply don't have the budget for it. i might get a good chuckle out of this but i'm convinced i can find a complete home theater that is not a HTiB for under $3,000.

i bought a HTiB from radio shack well over a decade ago and i was quite pleased actually. i had the bare minimum, a 27" CRT tv with s-video, a 5.1 HTiB with 6 inputs and a DVD player, both with optical hookups.
for their time they have served me well cause i am a good owner and took care of my equipment and studied acoustics to optimize all the components. for its day the overall quality was pretty good.
i reluctantly gave them out in a garage sale, now i'm left empty handed but knowing i was ready to upgrade. its been quite some time since then.
looking back its kinda funny, i noticed that TVs back in the day were actually easy to shop for. i mean CRT televisions were pretty much the top performers with contrasts, color and sharpness. looking for a good preforming A/V receiver and acoustically matching speaker cabinets was the complex and expensive part (still can be). Now it seems the roles have reversed, now its the televisions that are confusing and the good audio equipment easy to find.

as far as considering what TV to get, i have been wise on not buying a new HDTV, i'm kinda proud of myself for waiting patently cause every time i turn my back the standard is raised. with this up coming year it seems to me that picture quality seems to be approaching its peak;

noticing things like, nearly 180 degree viewing angles, brighter and more energy efficient LED back light technology that runs cooler, longer life, less susceptible to image burn-in, 1080p resolution, 10,000,000:1 contrast ratio, 240Hz refresh rate, the new 3D technology and now incorporating Wi-Fi internet apps (maybe in the next year will be full internet browsing capability). also, with prices coming down too i don't see how much more can be improved on.
I have been to home theater stores, i have considered high definition 3D projectors but as i mentioned before, i would love to get the complete theater feel but my pockets aren't that deep, with high quality projectors surpassing the $10k mark. they shun the mention of Vizio and try to sell me on a $4,000 Samsung plasma. dont get me wrong Samsung makes stunning TVs, but i have been keeping an eye on Vizio and even with their cheap price they are close to side-by-side comparison to the top manufactures.
i do know i'm not gonna waste money on a LCD anymore or a 720p screen, i am also sure that i cant afford a HD-3D projector. i still think im gonna wait till next year in hopes that the 3D technology will be better and be able to browse the web with my TV.

for the audio i'm kinda undecided on, 5.1, 7.1 or a sound bar to mimic surround sound. i have considered sound bars cause of the cleaner look, but not so much because of the $2,000 price tag for the models that actually sound like surround sound.

less speakers would be nice but i'm told for a true surround sound feel a real A/V receiver and physical speakers can't be beat. which is another down side for me when considering a sound bar.
i've been pretty happy with 5.1, it gets the job done, even with programs that utilize 7.1, i would imagine it would get most people by that are not really picky. I shy away from 7.1 cause of the extra speakers and where am i gonna find room to put them, and not make it look ugly? 7.2 and up is just a little too ridiculous for me.

buuut-- since i have my mind set on starting my blu-ray library and i will be adding a blu-ray player to my home theater, it seems to be a waste of all those extra signals being sent through all that nice equipment to be limited by fewer channels and not take advantage of it. so that is one consideration why i would go though the extra effort for a 7.1 configuration.
one extra feature i want in my A/V receiver is to be multi-zone, one, maybe two extra rooms with TVs and two rooms for sure with audio for my CD's that i could listen to. I believe finding a THX certified multi zone receiver is not gonna happen unless i got 2 or 3 grand to burn which i don't so i'll have to settle without.

so what do you think? i do want to take advantage of blu-ray and 3D but want to put some thought in to my selection. here is what i have my eye on so far.

Fluance AV-HTB 5, (i can buy extra satellites from the company)
Vizio M470SV, (47 fits perfect for the space i want it in)
Denon AVR-988, (as an example within the $500 range)
Sony BDP-S570.


i know the speakers might be the first to reconsider. from what i understand, a common mistake, is that speakers usually get an afterthought, which is defeating the whole purpose. for the price they seem to get rather good feedback which is why i considered it.

 

[gene c]

How large is your room and how loud do you want it to be? For a movie based system the sub woofer will have the biggest impact. The center channel is aso very important. I didn't notice mention of a sub in your list .


Don't worry about THX certification. We don't.


Fluance does make a decent in-expensive speaker system (when they're in stock). Also look at BIC, Jamo and Polk Monitors from Newegg.com on closeout (for over a year now ). You can get a decent sub from BIC or Partsexpress.com for under $200. Others feel you should spend a little more and get a real sub woofer from SVS, Elemental Designs or the new kid on the block, Lava, but they start at $350-400.


I'd spend a little less on the receiver and a little more on the speakers.


Dakmart.com carries Denon refurbished receivers, Ac4l.com - Onkyo/Marantz. H/K sells their own on their ebay store.


Read, read, read, ask, ask, ask.

 

[sirMAXX]

oh yes, good idea. i heard there is a misconception on what it means when something is sold as refurbished, that it was broken or something was wrong with it. but apparently i recently found out that a lot of times just a ding on the packaging or a box being simply opened or being a used as a floor model, an item can be re-sold as refurbished. so yeah, i definitely try to hunt down a refurbished model when i find one i'm after.


the thing about the fluance is that the 5 speaker set doesn't come with a sub, i figured it was because it came with towers, so it was ok to get away with it. i would like to hear what they sound like though. a sub would be nice, i could certainly look to include one. i do like the LFE, it adds so much fullness to the sound but where i'm at i want to be careful with the bass. i think i might try it without at first but if its bothering me i will add one, which i'm sure might be the case.


im not sure what to do with the center channel, i haven't given that one much thought either.

i want to go easy on the loudness, i want good delivery of the sound but not have it blaring to hear it well, sometimes i might want to turn it up a little.


the size of the room... shoot, i'm at a different place so i can't take measurements but i think i remember the living room being 18'x15'.

low profile carpet (but i will pull up the carpet and underlayment to expose the old subfloor planks and cover most of it with a big area rug), 9' ceilings, wainscoting from floor up to 42", then drywall up to ceiling and covering ceiling. there is one window on both sides of the tv and three open doorways to other rooms. the open doorways and windows will be covered from floor to ceiling with curtains.

the floor plan looks something like this...




the 'pantry' i think might be a good place to make a console space for the equipment. it used to be a place where an old cast iron wood stove used to go. its all empty now, primed and painted. the inside is pretty solid, surrounded on all sides by 6" of solid wood, its even got a place for ventilation, a 4" hole on the side of it where i can put a cooling fan.

between the two windows is where i'm gonna put the TV.

 

[sirMAXX]

oh yes, refurbished is good. i guess there is misconception on what it means when something is refurbished, that it was broken or something wrong with it. but apparently i recently found out that a lot of times just a ding on the packaging or a box being opened or being a floor model, an item can be sold as refurbished. so yeah, i definitely try to hunt down a refurbished model when i find one i'm after.
the thing about the fluance is that the set doesn't come with a sub, i figured it was because it came with towers, so it was ok. i would like to hear them though. a sub would be nice, i could certainly look to include one. i do like the LFE, it adds so much fullness to the sound but where i'm at i want to be careful with the bass. i think i might try it without at first but if it bothering me i will add one, which i'm sure might be the case.

im not sure what to do with the center channel, i haven't given that one much thought either.

i want to go easy on the loudness, i want good delivery of the sound but not have it blaring, sometimes i might want to turn it up a little.

the size of the room... shoot, i'm at a different place so i can't take measurements but i think i remember the living room being 18'x15'.

low profile carpet (but i will pull up the carpet and underlayment to expose the old subfloor planks and cover most of it with a big area rug), 9' ceilings, wainscoting from floor up to 42", then drywall up to ceiling and covering ceiling. there is one window on both sides of the tv and three open doorways to other rooms. the open doorways and windows will be covered from floor to ceiling with curtains.

the floor plan looks something like this...




the 'pantry' i think might be a good place to make a console space for the equipment. it used to be a place where an old cast iron wood stove used to go. its all empty now, primed and painted. the inside is pretty solid, surrounded on all sides by 6" of solid wood, its even got a place for ventilation, a 4" hole on the side of it where i can put a cooling fan.

between the two windows is where i'm gonna put the TV.

 

[sirMAXX]

awesome, @ newegg i see a home theater set of polk audio RM510 speakers (599 reg.) for 299 i think i can go for that.

 

[sirMAXX]

here is what i figured for speaker placement for a 7.1 setup.





the front main speakers (on stands) and center channel (wall mounted) will be 3' from the floor, the satellites will be ceiling mounted.


if i had the sofa near the back wall, which i hear is a no-no, i think the seating distance comes out to about 12'-13' away from the tv. from where i have the 'sweet spot' depicted in the image i think it should be more like 9'.


i'm kind of limited where i can put the front main speakers, the windows are tall and low to the floor too so they get in the way from placing the front speakers where i want them. i don't want to put them in front of the windows so i'm kinda forced to place them far apart, unless i mount them high up and i don't think front speakers should be placed above ear level. from the measurements i remember, the spacing of the speakers should be just about at the maximum of 12' but no more then that.

i think the 'pantry' part might be a problem area, the borders for the pantry is solid wall and it goes from floor to ceiling. you can see the left side channel is close to the wall of the pantry and might interfere with the sound. but it looks like i might have about 6" of clearance. so i might be able to get it to where the sound wont bounce off it directly.

 

[Robert_J]

That Polk system you mention is only slightly better than speakers in a HTiB. The main drivers are 2.5". The sub goes down to 32hz. As long as your expectations aren't too high, you will enjoy the system.


When I saw your thread title, I got excited. I expected DIY like this - http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/D3/dayton3.htm

 

[sirMAXX]

oh, i tried my hand at making a speaker cabinet and embarrassed myself. i think i could make a good one if i try again.

32hz for a sub is kinda sad. i guess i cant expect a flat frequency response for $500 for set of 5 speakers, quality speakers can be 500 a piece. i would like to find a set that has a wider range. im finding out that for a low budget the fluance actually has the widest range of 70-20k, some other inexpensive sets start at 100hz or more. but ill keep looking. i will try to consider speakers more than the A/V unit. for a sub, i'll try to get a quality one, do they have to match sonicly too?

 

[Robert_J]

Since the sub covers a different frequency range, they don't have to come from the same company. In fact, we normally recommend subs from specialty companies like SVS, Hsu, eD, Epik or Lava. They cover every price point from a couple hundred to a few thousand.

 

[sirMAXX]

is there any recommendations for the speaker placement?

 

[Al.Anderson]

In general I like your approach. Personally, if I was trying to get as much as possible for the money I'd skip the 7.1 and stay with 5.1, and skip the 3D. You mentioned evolving standards and such, well, 3D very much fits into that category. In 3 years the landscape will have changed and matured. As for 5.1 vs 7.1, there's very little 7.1 source material, and 5.1 sounds great in any case. Use the money from those two and and get a decent sub.


Vizio is a very nice discount brand (I have one for the bedroom), but Samsung and Sony have the best pictures. You don't have to go up to $4k to get those pictures either. I've certainly seen Samsungs less than $2K.