Pioneer DV-656A progressive-scan DVD-Audio player in stock at Crutchfield for $200. (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

Crutchfield has the silver DV-656A progressive-scan DVD-Audio player in stock for $199.99. Here is the link:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...DV656A&o=m&a=0
The only thing about the '656A that concerns me after a quick glance is that the remote does not have a "Group" button. By using the Group button on the remote for my Technics DVD-A10 DVD-Audio player, I am able to switch between the multi-channel and stereo DVD-Audio tracks on Warner discs without a TV. I am wondering if the lack of a Group button on the '656A remote will make it difficult or impossible to navigate DVD-Audio discs without a TV. Thoughts?

 

[Eugene Hsieh]

Is this a "real" progressive scan player or one of those ones that just read the flags?

 

[KeithH]

Eugene, unlike the older Pioneer DV-434 and '444, I think the '656A offers true progressive-scan playback. Crutchfield says the following about the '656A:

PureCinema de-interlacer with 3-2 pulldown processing

So, it seems like the '656A is the real deal. I wonder if it shows the chroma bug.

 

[Kevin Parker]

Its at $174 at etronics.com

 

[Lewis Besze]

Are you consedering this player for purchase Keith?
I'm only asking this since your "annoyance" with the missing group button.
I know what you talking about though, it's present on my Panasonic player,though I never use it since all of my discs are default to the MC tracks.My preference
Without the manual though it would be impissible to predict it's complete absence.It's possible that the "audio" or the "play mode" would substitute when it detects a DVD-A disc.

 

[KeithH]

Lewis, I am casually considering the '656A to have DVD-Audio in my second stereo system, where I have no TV nearby. If the '656A would not allow me to play DVD-Audio discs without the TV conveniently, there is also the Panasonic 'RP82 for around $230. The remote for the 'RP82 shown on Crutchfield's web site has a Group button. I just don't know if this is the real remote provided or a prototype. I say this because the unit shown is a prototype. The other issue is that I tend to prefer Pioneer products to Matsushita offerings for audio quality. However, at the $200-230 price point, perhaps it wouldn't really matter.

 

[Lyle_JP]

Is this a "real" progressive scan player or one of those ones that just read the flags?

That question seems to confuse two seperate issues.

First of all, yes it is a true progressive scan player, meaning that it will do the reverse 3:2 pulldown that previous inexpensive Pioneer machines would not, and it also has a very good video de-interlacing mode.

The second issue, whether or not its 3:2 detection is based on cadence or flags, the answer is it is a simple flag reading player in its Auto mode. It doesn't have 3:2 cadence reading like the genesis or sage/faroudja chipsets and it will do the wrong thing on improperly flagged material.

Fortunately, improperly flagged material is the exception in the DVD software world, not the rule.

-Lyle J.P.

 

[David Susilo]

How about the chroma bug? is it still there? (my DV-05 and DV-37 have it)

 

[Matt DeVillier]

anyone give this player a spin yet?

 

[KeithH]

David and Matt, someone recently provided a review of the '656A on the Hi-Rez Highway board on www.audioasylum.com . The individual commented that the picture quality in interlaced mode beat the Panasonic 'RA60 that he or she owned previously. This person was also impressed with DVD-Audio through the '656A. I don't recall this person mentioning the chroma bug, but check out the thread for details. A search for "DV-656A" should do the trick.

 

[Matt DeVillier]

unfortuantely that person only tested interlaced output, and didn't give much detail. thanks anyway Keith

 

[KeithH]

Matt, yeah, the review was brief and just with respect to picture quality in interlaced mode. It appears that the person was more concerned with audio, not that much was said there either. That's the only review for the '656A I have seen thus far.

 

[Tulli]

Fortunately, improperly flagged material is the exception in the DVD software world, not the rule.

I've heard quite a different story from DVD-Shootout guru Stacey Spears, who's stated that
"[DVD] Authoring is still subpar when it comes to the flags".
See here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...ighlight=flags

 

[Lyle_JP]

With all due respect to Stacey, I find that only one out of every 30 or so DVDs comb due to poor flagging on my Elite DV-37. What Stacey talks about in the post you reference is the phenomena of "dropping to video mode". It is not the same thing as combing, and on a player that has a good video mode (like Pioneer or any Sage-based players like Panasonic) it's hardly noticeable.

Even 4:3 cadence reading players will drop to video mode when mastering errors are encountered, and some take forever to recover back into film mode, so I don't see this as a reason not to get flag-reading players, but a reason instead to light some fires under these DVD mastering facilities' butts to prevent these mastering errors.

Mastering errors are problematic no matter what de-interlacing solution you use.

-Lyle J.P.

 

[StaceyS]

so I don't see this as a reason not to get flag-reading players, but a reason instead to light some fires under these DVD mastering facilities' butts to prevent these mastering errors.

I agree 100% and is why I am publishing the data. In the end you should not need a cadence player. HD suffers the same fate and current D-Theater tapes are all encoded as 100% video.

 

[Craig Rosenthal]

Interesting - I read a review of a European version of the DV-656A in a British magazine at my local Borders the other day. The following is from Pioneer's UK website:
http://www.pioneer.co.uk
Unique 'Universal' playback Compatible with DVD-Audio/SACD/SACD Multi-channel/DVD-Video/DVD-R/DVD-RW/CD-R/CD-RW/CD-DA/VideoCD/MP3
192kHz/24-bit DACs
SACD 2-channel and SACD multi-channel playback
5.1 channel DVD-Audio and SACD output
DVD-Audio Bass Management
Built-in Dolby Digital/DTS decoder
Video Off and FL Dimmer/Off
New GUI
Picture Zoom, Virtual Dolby Digital, Slim design
Seems that in Europe, the 656 is a non-progressive (per the article I read, and no mention of progressive on the website), universal player, with DVD-A Bass management. The article mentioned that the DACs were the same Burr-Brown model used in Pioneer's more expensive universal players. Too bad it appears no SACD support in the US version, among other possible changes - it comes in black.

 

[KeithH]

Craig, What Hi*Fi? has a review of a UK '656A that is an interlaced universal player in its September issue. I posted this information somewhere on this site recently. Note that the forthcoming Pioneer Elite DV-45A should be the US equivalent of the UK '656A, except that the '45A will offer progressive-scan output. It is ridiculous that Pioneer would use the same model number for very different components.

 

[JeffDm]

Fortunately, improperly flagged material is the exception in the DVD software world, not the rule.

If you exclusively stick with AAA, blockbuster or "big money" theatrical movies, then you might not notice combs and video mode very often, but my experience that this is almost the opposite case for TV series put on DVD, or movies that didn't get the AAA level of treatment.

Most of the TV series that I have on DVD are encoded as interlaced. Star Trek TNG, Buffy, Faulty Towers, Monty Python Flying Circus and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy are all series that I have that are completely interlaced encoded. The original Star Trek and and MASH are the only two exceptions that I have right now. It leads to probably over 300 _hours_ of run time in my collection which there are no flags at all, period.

Also, even a lot of movie extras are encoded as interlaced. Quite frankly, I believe that getting something that can read cadence is important to getting the best performance out of a DVD, not just the movie, but the extras and also TV series.

I do agree that the DVD authors should get with the program, but even then, there's a lot already out there that can't just be ignored.