Physical Media might not be dead, but Physical Media in Retail Stores are accelerating the death (1 Viewer)

[jcroy]

Last week a friend texted to our neighborhood group, hey I just watched Predestination and you gotta watch it too! Where did he stream it? It was $4 streaming rental.

I ordered the blu-ray from Amazon for $10, it shows up a couple days later, I spend the hour or two to rip it to my media PC, and watched it yesterday.

Other friends, being sensible people, stream it for the $4


A reflection of the times: Normal people just want to watch a thing, and renting / streaming is in every way easier and cheaper and faster. It’s an impulse, no getting to the store or even waiting for Prime. It’s better than catching random movies on cable. And there’s no disc to collect dust later.

For the most part. This is an apt description ^ of my social circles for almost the past decade.

They were wondering why I wasting all my time and effort on going through dump bins and ripping dvd/bluray discs.

Enthusiasts spend more effort and money to have this experience engaging with physical media. Why? Because enthusiasts get more into a thing than non-enthusiasts (on any activity).

But unfortunately for the disc enthusiasts, all the money and technology and consumer desire is pushing to streaming.

For sure. The same can be said of enthusiasts in other unrelated niches, such as: comic books, video games, board games, painting, playing musical instruments, etc ...

 

[cineMANIAC]

A reflection of the times: Normal people just want to watch a thing, and renting / streaming is in every way easier and cheaper and faster...It’s better than catching random movies on cable. And there’s no disc to collect dust later.

This is what separates casual viewers from real enthusiasts: enthusiasts will never be satisfied catching random movies on cable/Netflix/streaming. I'd rather have a large collection of discs collecting dust than be flipping through cable looking for any old thing. I'll be more likely to be flipping through commercials than finding something to watch. Scary to think we're headed towards a world where people will only be able to watch whatever junk the studios want you to watch. I pray every day that my collection survives well past me

 

[David Deeb]

Another area affected by all this are the "used media" B&M stores. I used to frequent some really awesome shops in my town that deal in used music/records/comics/collectables/books/etc. as well as BDs & movies.

But I get depressed and rarely go to any of them anymore. These stores still have TONS of movies for sale. But the selection is terrible!

There are rarely any 4K UHD films on the used market - and if there are - there are multiple copies of that same bad film everywhere! One used to be able to frequent these stores to get UHD discs, box sets, complete TV series sets, foreign or hard to find films, etc. But most enthusiasts, like us, are most likely to buy these films new & keep them. So the used market just isn't any good anymore. It's even harder to find some of these on ebay anymore too.

 

[albert_m2]

Another area affected by all this are the "used media" B&M stores. I used to frequent some really awesome shops in my town that deal in used music/records/comics/collectables/books/etc. as well as BDs & movies.

But I get depressed and rarely go to any of them anymore. These stores still have TONS of movies for sale. But the selection is terrible!

There are rarely any 4K UHD films on the used market - and if there are - there are multiple copies of that same bad film everywhere! One used to be able to frequent these stores to get UHD discs, box sets, complete TV series sets, foreign or hard to find films, etc. But most enthusiasts, like us, are most likely to buy these films new & keep them. So the used market just isn't any good anymore. It's even harder to find some of these on ebay anymore too.

On this front, I would say that the 4K market was never that big to begin with. I know countless people who never bothered with Blu Ray. Hell, it's 2021 and DVD is still the main format of what's left in retail stores.

 

[DaveF]

This is what separates casual viewers from real enthusiEasts: enthusiasts will never be satisfied catching random movies on cable/Netflix/streaming. I'd rather have a large collection of discs collecting dust than be flipping through cable looking for any old thing. I'll be more likely to be flipping through commercials than finding something to watch. Scary to think we're headed towards a world where people will only be able to watch whatever junk the studios want you to watch. I pray every day that my collection survives well past me

I think you're showing the disconnect: It's no longer about catching random bad movies on cable if you don't own hundreds or thousands of discs. A person can watch pretty much anything and everything they want, when they want, with no waiting, or forced ads, or waiting for a disc to be delivered.

Pick a movie. Watch a movie. The non-enthusiast's library are becoming much bigger, much better, much cheaper than the enthusiasts.

 

[Derrick King]

Another area affected by all this are the "used media" B&M stores. I used to frequent some really awesome shops in my town that deal in used music/records/comics/collectables/books/etc. as well as BDs & movies.

But I get depressed and rarely go to any of them anymore. These stores still have TONS of movies for sale. But the selection is terrible!

There are rarely any 4K UHD films on the used market - and if there are - there are multiple copies of that same bad film everywhere! One used to be able to frequent these stores to get UHD discs, box sets, complete TV series sets, foreign or hard to find films, etc. But most enthusiasts, like us, are most likely to buy these films new & keep them. So the used market just isn't any good anymore. It's even harder to find some of these on ebay anymore too.

The (lack of) money one gets for used discs hardly makes it worth the time/effort to sell them.

 

[DaveF]

I think the great loss in the transition is the demise of special features and commentaries. There was an amazing time in the ‘90s and ‘00s when you could practically go to film school from DVD extras.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I think you're showing the disconnect: It's no longer about catching random bad movies on cable if you don't own hundreds or thousands of discs. A person can watch pretty much anything and everything they want, when they want, with no waiting, or forced ads, or waiting for a disc to be delivered.

Pick a movie. Watch a movie. The non-enthusiast's library are becoming much bigger, much better, much cheaper than the enthusiasts.

It pretty much boils down to what fellow HTF member Josh Steinberg has often commented about the masses going with what is the least expensive and the most convenient. In the late '90s and especially the early to mid '00s, that generally meant purchasing DVDs, often the previously enjoyed Blockbuster rentals that went for peanuts, and were often cheaper to buy than rent. Nowadays, it's streaming and digital downloads that largely fulfills the masses least expensive and most convenient tendency.

CHEERS!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It’s funny Dave mentioned Predestination because it’s a film I’ve never seen but meant to for some time. The other week, I couldn’t decide what I wanted to watch. Nothing I could think of out of my collection was hitting the spot. I opened up iTunes and highlighted it as a film of interest, I remembered that I wanted to see it, thought “why not now?”, pressed a button, spent $4, and at 1am, was watching a quality presentation of a movie I had long wanted to see. I really enjoyed the film while also recognizing it wasn’t something I needed to physically possess. If I decide to rent it again in a few years, the cost of the two rentals combined would still be less than a disc purchase

This isn’t a bug or a fad - it’s a major feature.

Some people talk about streaming dumbing down audiences or making film inaccessible but I think it’s the reverse. I can see almost anything that’s in print, at any time, at the touch of a button. I have access to more choices than ever before, and my overall costs are less than ever. If you’re an average (non-enthusiast) viewer, you now have access to more titles than ever before at a lower price than ever before with convenience that would have been unimaginable twenty years ago.

It is a genuinely good thing.

 

[Traveling Matt]

I think the great loss in the transition is the demise of special features and commentaries. There was an amazing time in the ‘90s and ‘00s when you could practically go to film school from DVD extras.

That's one reason I also prefer to take the hour or two to rip a BD. On top of controlling the technical settings, I get the extras and commentaries. Streaming isn't even close to replicating that value as a standard practice, and it doesn't look like the format will ever find it worthwhile to try.

No thank you.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It depends which film and where you purchase - basically every new release title on iTunes now includes all of the disc based bonus features and sometimes even bonus material that’s not on the disc. Older titles can be a little bit more of a crapshoot but it does appear that they’re making a genuine effort for new titles going forward to equalize the disc and digital ownership experiences.

 

[Traveling Matt]

It’s funny Dave mentioned Predestination because it’s a film I’ve never seen but meant to for some time. The other week, I couldn’t decide what I wanted to watch. Nothing I could think of out of my collection was hitting the spot. I opened up iTunes and highlighted it as a film of interest, I remembered that I wanted to see it, thought “why not now?”, pressed a button, spent $4, and at 1am, was watching a quality presentation of a movie I had long wanted to see. I really enjoyed the film while also recognizing it wasn’t something I needed to physically possess. If I decide to rent it again in a few years, the cost of the two rentals combined would still be less than a disc purchase

This isn’t a bug or a fad - it’s a major feature.

Some people talk about streaming dumbing down audiences or making film inaccessible but I think it’s the reverse. I can see almost anything that’s in print, at any time, at the touch of a button. I have access to more choices than ever before, and my overall costs are less than ever. If you’re an average (non-enthusiast) viewer, you now have access to more titles than ever before at a lower price than ever before with convenience that would have been unimaginable twenty years ago.

It is a genuinely good thing.

Josh, here's something to consider. Doesn't entirely negate what you say and doesn't apply to the masses generally, but it's another dimension to this.

The Rise, Fall, and Hopeful Rebirth of I Luv Video

Through his celebrated video store, owner Conrad Bejarano built a film archive that educated and entertained for decades. Now, the search is on for a successor to Austin’s cinematic lifeblood.

www.austinmonthly.com

 

[Traveling Matt]

It depends which film and where you purchase - basically every new release title on iTunes now includes all of the disc based bonus features and sometimes even bonus material that’s not on the disc. Older titles can be a little bit more of a crapshoot but it does appear that they’re making a genuine effort for new titles going forward to equalize the disc and digital ownership experiences.

I was talking streaming, not digital purchases.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I was talking streaming, not digital purchases.

Streaming can mean purchase or rental (or subscription service)... just like w/ discs, except as @DaveF noted, it can often-to-usually be less/no waiting and more convenient and cheaper. But sure, it's not all pros and no cons, especially for the enthusiast.

Personally, as long as I can still own a high (enough) quality digital copy, there's probably going to be a place for both (higher quality) discs and digitals (and even subscription streaming and maybe the sporadic rental) in my little corner of the enthusiast world.

I think some (old school) enthusiasts are missing the point and/or benefits/opportunity that the improving streaming model adds, not merely/only subtracts/replaces or threatens to kill, alongside discs.

I don't want to see physical media disappear/killed either -- I own plenty myself and have no real desire to rip nor get rid of most of them -- but it doesn't necessarily have to be just because streaming has been taking off. There's space for both to co-exist... much like BD and DVD did for a long time. I'm guessing streaming will mostly replace/kill DVD, leaving either BD or 4K discs (or both combined) still as a largely viable enough enthusiast niche somewhat like LD vs VHS back in the day. What might disappear though is the lower sales pricing of BDs... but most of us are running out of storage space to collect tons and tons of discs at bargain prices anyway. Now, a good enough HD (or 4K) digital copy on sporadic sale for $5 will suffice in many cases me thinks while we save our precious storage space (and extra funds) for our must-haves in higher quality (and fewer deep bargains) instead...

And then, you still have some excellent subscription services like the Criterion Channel, NVM Netflix, to complement all that -- certainly, Criterion seems to get it and seems to be striking a good balance between streaming and their disc business both targeted at the enthusiast...

_Man_

 

[DeWilson]

https://www.thevulcanreporter.com/exclusives/warner-bros-exit-home-video-production/

Warner Bros. plans to shut down its physical media production department. Warner Bros-produced Films and Television series will still be getting Blu-Ray and DVD releases, though these releases will not be produced by Warner Bros themselves.

 

[DaveF]

I think some (old school) enthusiasts are missing the point and/or benefits/opportunity that the improving streaming model adds, not merely/only subtracts/replaces or threatens to kill, alongside discs.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I was talking streaming, not digital purchases.

If you mean subscription streaming, that’s not meant to replace ownership - that’s the 21st century successor to premium cable subscriptions, linear channels like HBO or Showtime. Those don’t come with bonus features either.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

https://www.thevulcanreporter.com/exclusives/warner-bros-exit-home-video-production/

Warner Bros. plans to shut down its physical media production department. Warner Bros-produced Films and Television series will still be getting Blu-Ray and DVD releases, though these releases will not be produced by Warner Bros themselves.

That's to be expected after the earlier agreement to a joint venture between Warner and Universal (mentioned right in that article itself).

The real big concern will be what happens w/ WAC going forward for instance. Will they fold WAC too, but instead, license those kinds of titles to other high quality, enthusiast independents like Criterion, et al? IF so, (true) enthusiasts should still be just fine w/ that me thinks...

_Man_

 

[Robin9]

The real big concern will be what happens w/ WAC going forward for instance. Will they fold WAC too, but instead, license those kinds of titles to other high quality, enthusiast independents like Criterion, et al? IF so, (true) enthusiasts should still be just fine w/ that me thinks...

_Man_

I don't want to pay Criterion prices for Warner Archive titles!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Warner and Disney are the two studios most reluctant to license material out. I don’t really see that changing with Disney, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Warner becoming more open minded on that front, as it becomes the industry standard - Sony, Paramount and Universal all regularly license out catalog titles these days.

The holdup for years was that titles would get stuck in this limbo where studios were reluctant to license many titles because they seemed too big to give away, but not big enough to justify the expense/effort in doing it themselves. As they move towards not doing it themselves at all, it’s starting to look like all the studios are more willing to offer more titles for licensing at terms that are more aligned with the new reality of catalog titles being a niche rather than mainstream pursuit. And I think that recognition is a silver lining for us hobbyists. You can already see that in what titles are going for licensing. Ten years ago, the studios wouldn’t let out something like the Mae West films for licensing but weren’t doing Blu-rays themselves for them either, and now they’re coming from Kino.