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RobertMG

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That presumes every original print is exactly the same, which has never been the case with prints. There were good original prints and not so good original prints. It’s entirely possible the studio has a not so good original print.

I think there’s ample reason to presume that the red planet is meant to be red. Without going on a limb, I think one would be safe in accepting that the Criterion disc (which presents Mars as red) is correct.

The issue at hand isn’t really whether or not Paramount is objectively correct. They almost certainly are not. The issue at hand is that Paramount *believes* they are correct. They have been selling this version of the film for four years now. They believe they are right.

If you worked on a project and believed you were correct, you would be unlikely to change your mind either.
Criterion did the same on Summertime ---- they all do it us peons just buy the product
 

Lord Dalek

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It doesn't matter what color the planet is, the only relevant issue is what color it was intended to be on Technicolor dye-transfer prints in 1953. The only way we could be reasonably certain of that today would be by referring to surviving archival or vault prints that had been signed off as being correct back then. I don't know if any original-release prints might still exist out in the wild, so to speak, but a survey of as many of those as possible would be better than nothing, I suppose, if conducted by people who knew what they were doing.
Yeah unfortunately most prints of War of the Worlds are Eastmancolor ones from the late 60s and 70s and were heavily contrast boosted to help TV broadcasts out. Hence the visible wires that were NEVER THERE in 1953.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I wouldn’t go so far to call us peons :)

But yes, I believe it’s a similar scenario in that Criterion believes their choice for Summertime is correct. I do not believe it is, but I believe they do. I don’t think they’re intentionally releasing faulty product for the sake of mistreating their customers. I think that they have made an error in good faith based on faulty evidence or a faulty conclusion that they believe to be correct and not faulty.

You will never get someone to admit to a mistake that they do not believe they’ve made.
 

RobertMG

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I wouldn’t go so far to call us peons :)

But yes, I believe it’s a similar scenario in that Criterion believes their choice for Summertime is correct. I do not believe it is, but I believe they do. I don’t think they’re intentionally releasing faulty product for the sake of mistreating their customers. I think that they have made an error in good faith based on faulty evidence or a faulty conclusion that they believe to be correct and not faulty.

You will never get someone to admit to a mistake that they do not believe they’ve made.
Especially when it will cost them to correct ------ Some triva Modern sources state that Cecil B. DeMille was asked to do the film's narration, and Lee Marvin was considered for the male lead.
 
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Gerani53

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You will never get someone to admit to a mistake that they do not believe they’ve made.
I've never heard the funny/tragic story of humanity better expressed. All the evidence in the world will be met with a blank stare/slightly opened mouth as emotions force the brain to obviate data that interferes with what personal vanity demands. Others see how we are lying to ourselves, but we are unable to, because our ego-defenses instantly rush to the rescue, the way a cut automatically heals itself. Seems kind of hopeless, doesn't it?
 

Robert Harris

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That presumes every original print is exactly the same, which has never been the case with prints. There were good original prints and not so good original prints. It’s entirely possible the studio has a not so good original print.

I think there’s ample reason to presume that the red planet is meant to be red. Without going on a limb, I think one would be safe in accepting that the Criterion disc (which presents Mars as red) is correct.

The issue at hand isn’t really whether or not Paramount is objectively correct. They almost certainly are not. The issue at hand is that Paramount *believes* they are correct. They have been selling this version of the film for four years now. They believe they are right.

If you worked on a project and believed you were correct, you would be unlikely to change your mind either.
Bingo!

Thank you, Josh. I was about to opine something similar. There is very little meaning when someone makes note that they referenced a dye transfer print, as prints change as matrices wear.

It’s a matter of finding an ACCURATE dye transfer print, and then not simply viewing it, but keeping it on screen beside the data - and also knowing when the reference may be incorrect.

In the WotW negatives, which are black & white, one is dealing in the specific Mars shot with a sky exposed for black and a star field off-white - there was no true white in dye transfer.

If a colorist views the combine and sets the basics, the planet should fall into line - similar to skin tones.

As I’ve previously noted, I don’t have requisite background with this film, but others do, and know it well.

Final point. There may not be a great many original 1953 prints surviving, there must be some representation for accuracy.
 
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RobertMG

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Bingo!

Thank you, Josh. I was about to opine something similar. There is very little meaning when someone makes note that they referenced a dye transfer print, as prints change as matrices wear.

It’s a matter of finding an ACCURATE dye transfer print, and then not simply viewing it, but keeping it on screen beside the data - and also knowing when the reference may be incorrect.

In the WotW negatives, which are black & white, one is dealing in the specific Mars shot with a sky exposed for black and a star field off-white - there was no true white in dye transfer.

If a colorist views the combine and sets the basics, the planet should fall into line - similar to skin tones.

As I’ve previously noted, I don’t have requisite background with this film, but others do, and know it well.

Final point. There may not be a great many original 1953 prints surviving, there must be some representation for accuracy.
Maybe the Academy has a print
 

RobertMG

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You might suggest that.
I sent the Film Foundation an email maybe Speilberg or Martin has a print and I will email The Academy too did the interview with Ms Kalas on the Criterion does she mention if they referneced a library print a Paramount archival print?
 

Capt D McMars

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That presumes every original print is exactly the same, which has never been the case with prints. There were good original prints and not so good original prints. It’s entirely possible the studio has a not so good original print.

I think there’s ample reason to presume that the red planet is meant to be red. Without going on a limb, I think one would be safe in accepting that the Criterion disc (which presents Mars as red) is correct.

The issue at hand isn’t really whether or not Paramount is objectively correct. They almost certainly are not. The issue at hand is that Paramount *believes* they are correct. They have been selling this version of the film for four years now. They believe they are right.

If you worked on a project and believed you were correct, you would be unlikely to change your mind either.
It seems to be uberus on thier part, if an issue arrises you make the needed adjustment and make it right. Anything less is prideful avoidance, combined with professional arrogance on thier part.
And the fact that this is a product and the quality of this product, to a lesser or greater degree, will reflect in the sales in it's various formats. We don't need a studio to "Gaslight "us into thinking anything other than...it's correct or it isn't. But thier lack of interest in the feedback of thier comsumers is a very troubling trend!!
 

Robert Harris

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I sent the Film Foundation an email maybe Speilberg or Martin has a print and I will email The Academy too did the interview with Ms Kalas on the Criterion does she mention if they referneced a library print a Paramount archival print?
Why don’t you set up a Zoom call so you can explain to Steven, Marty and Andrea where to find a print?
 

RobertMG

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Why don’t you set up a Zoom call so you can explain to Steven, Marty and Andrea where to find a print?
Way ahead of u already in touch with Ms Kalas - You know I do not give up - I wanted to write the history of the Macy's Parade - never done people said they would not let me in ---- I did it! Went to France wrote a wonderful screenplay about Jewish children being hissen in the French Countryside went to meet Serge Klarsfeld the famous lawyer who won the case to release the govt archives they said he would not meet with me as in USA we are not taught about the that horrible time - went to France and he met with me --- even got the script to a certain famous french actor so do not count me out. And even got to talk with Marty once on TV --- and my old boss dentist was Martys brother so stranger things have happened - if u notice I said Spielberg --- people know I had talked with Marty once!
 

Robert Harris

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Way ahead of u already in touch with Ms Kalas - You know I do not give up - I wanted to write the history of the Macy's Parade - never done people said they would not let me in ---- I did it! Went to France wrote a wonderful screenplay about Jewish children being hissen in the French Countryside went to meet Serge Klarsfeld the famous lawyer who won the case to release the govt archives they said he would not meet with me as in USA we are not taught about the that horrible time - went to France and he met with me --- even got the script to a certain famous french actor so do not count me out. And even got to talk with Marty once on TV --- and my old boss dentist was Martys brother so stranger things have happened
Does Andrea know that you’re willing to put in the legwork?

Won’t help with WotW, but may in the future. The ability to secure reference prints is a major asset. Few people know where to look.

Should be a staff position.
 

RobertMG

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Does Andrea know that you’re willing to put in the legwork?

Won’t help with WotW, but may in the future The ability to secure reference prints is a major asset. Few people know where to look.

Should be a staff position.
Due to my illness I cannot talk I use email was not being nasty to u I love ya and respect ya bit u never know I make the right contact maybe would get answers would not be surprised if Joe Dante etc do not have an orignal print someone might! Just located Henry Kosters papers they are sending me info on the Bishops Wife interesting there are also reels of film trying to see if their is outtakes on that film they are looking into them This is heartbreaking look at the reels of film Includes scrapbooks, 16mm film reels, and annotated scripts pertaining to the career and life of filmmaker Henry Koster. The scripts are mostly final drafts of shooting scripts; some are Koster’s personal copies, and many included 8x10 glossy production stills. The scrapbooks cover the production, release, and reception of several of Koster’s 1930s-1950s films. The film reels are in fair to poor condition, and are mostly whole. Now I will go back to the film this thread is about dear MODS! If I get any reply to my contacts WOTW I will now just read all your great replies THANKS to all I have the Criterion DVD and eventually will get the blu ray if I get better Have to dig out my 40 year old VHS and see that I think it came out when Paramount released White Christmas
 

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Robert Harris

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Due to my illness I cannot talk I use email was not being nasty to u I love ya and respect ya bit u never know I make the right contact maybe would get answers would not be surprised if Joe Dante etc do not have an orignal print someone might! Just located Henry Kosters papers they are sending me info on the Bishops Wife interesting there are also reels of film trying to see if their is outtakes on that film they are looking into them This is heartbreaking look at the reels of film Includes scrapbooks, 16mm film reels, and annotated scripts pertaining to the career and life of filmmaker Henry Koster. The scripts are mostly final drafts of shooting scripts; some are Koster’s personal copies, and many included 8x10 glossy production stills. The scrapbooks cover the production, release, and reception of several of Koster’s 1930s-1950s films. The film reels are in fair to poor condition, and are mostly whole. Now I will go back to the film this thread is about dear MODS! If I get any reply to my contacts WOTW I will now just read all your great replies THANKS to all I have the Criterion DVD and eventually will get the blu ray if I get better Have to dig out me 40 year old VHS and see that I think it came out when Paramount released White Christmas
The prints are out there, but they’re like truffles. Have you sent a message to Kevin Koster?
 

RobertMG

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The prints are out there, but they’re like truffles. Have you sent a message to Kevin Koster? Grandson of Henry? I might try that! Thank you for cheering me up - I appreciate it was having a rough day - Were u ever in Paramounts vaults?
 

Robert Harris

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Thank you for cheering me up - I appreciate it was having a rough day - Kevin Koster? Were u ever in Paramounts vaults?
Yes, I’ve spent time in their vaults. Chilly.

I prefer 82 and sunny.

They’ve shut them down and moved elements elsewhere.

Mr. Koster posts here to HTF, and I’m told he’s a wonderful gentleman!
 

RobertMG

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Yes, I’ve spent time in their vaults. Chilly.

I prefer 82 and sunny.

They’ve shut them down and moved elements elsewhere.

Mr. Koster posts here to HTF, and I’m told he’s a wonderful gentleman!
Okay I will search out Mr K here thanks! Thanks for the info on Paramount interesting studio can u imagine if they had all their films pre 1949 Oy Vey
 

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