*** Official PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: Dead Man's Chest Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[derek]

ahh..it may be. The shot was quick and I assumed it was the same. In fact in Curse of the Black Pearl it may have been shown when Norrington captures Jack after he rescues Elizabeth firstoff.

 

[DonRoeber]

One of our friends suggested the same thing. I teased her and chastised her for revealing the plot of the third film Could very well be the case though.


One thing I noticed. When Elizabeth is dressed up like a sailor, it looks like her hair has been cut short and she's got her tri-corner hat on, but when she gets off of the ship and meets up with the pirates, her hair is long again. What's up with that?

 

[Ray_R]

David, I couldn't agree with you more about the pure sense of fun, humour and supernatural elements. That's why I enjoy both the Pirates of the Caribbean films and Monkey Island games, you're SUPPOSED to have a fun adventure with these guys and share alot of laughs. There's alot of cross-references to both the MI games and the PotC films/ride with each other. I even read on a Monkey Island website that alot of the first two games had alot of inspiration from the ride. Especially in the second game with the jail dog with the keys in it's mouth. I'll play the three I own to see if I can't pick up anymore.

I play both The Secret of Monkey Island AND Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge with ScummVM on my computer. I also own The Curse of Monkey Island in it's CD-ROM form. I was also keeping my eye out for references to the game in the new one and also caught that bit with Jack using the coffin. I figure with the DVD I'll be able to hunt down even more clues which tie with the Monkey Island series. Although I don't mind a few more viewings in the cinema.
It was fun seeing the whole skeleton cage thing and the "Jack-ke-bob" near the beginning of the film.

I'm going to go and make a Monkey Island thread over in the video game software sub-forum.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

That never occured to me, but, you know, I can see that working.

 

[Mary M S]

First: Loved it.

But whereas the Black Pearl was a gem I would not polish I would tweak the setting for DMC.

Cons:

• Had a slight jumpy, unconnected feel to situations, the story progression lacked the smoothness of TBP.
• Coffin (maybe I missed something - why were they throwing coffins out to sea, - at most I would think the bodies would be wrapped burlap or sailcloth?) I liked the humorous introduction of Sparrow, just feel it is impossible to top Depps entrance via the sinking ship de-boarding in TBP.
  I consider that one of the greatest entrances in movie history; bar none.
• Start was slow and during it Depp felt like he swished a little too hard, (overacted) but settled into his ‘old’ self for most scenes.
• Kera, IMO definitely overacted and had far too studied a “aren’t I a cute pirate” to most of her scenes. The worst, while fainting & running around pre and throughout the Tri-sword fight.
• Dog: They LEFT the dog!!!!
• TBP stood on its own...if there (thank goodness not!) had never been a sequel more than DMC is capable of.
  I understand it is hard to lead into the next one (III) but DMC does not stand on its own legs, as does TBP as a more of a contained story arc.
• Length: I would have edited the cannibal island and the whole Tri-sword fight much tighter.
  Cannibals: The Jack-ka-bob touch and Jacks eyelids...the swinging/rolling bone jail...the fork & knife - laughed out-loud, everything else surrounding, I would have done some chopping.
  Sword Fight: Why the long intro fight up to and while-climbing the church ruin (just to get the characters on the wheel?) That is a scene I would have tightened up considerably. As many of the shorter bits- during the freewheeling time across the island.
  Krackan attack: Why expect the netted kegs of powder & rum to inflict more damage than the first gun salvo that separated tentacles? Kera, Depp, Orlando “I’m back” just had a very slapped together pointless feel to this whole battle, I would have gotten rid of much of that scene to cut time.
• And most of all! - I had a wild (unrealized) expectation when I saw the boots descending the stairs that: Jack -I am your father, Keith Richards was about to appear..(for this I would have shouted out-loud).
  
  Pros:
• Davey Jones: I think this was to-date the best CG character I have ever seen. Gollum & Kong can’t touch him. Did not find him one-dimensional at all. The movie will keep its legs for me solely because of the greatness of that character work and detail.
• 2nd best CG. The pirate who pulls away from his entombment in the wall in the bowels of the Flying Dutchman. Fantastic!
• Depp
• Bootstrap Bill...great job.
• Barbarosa showing up, thrilled to see he will be back on board for III.
  Barbarosa & Davey should make for some interesting moments.
• Depps “Pirate” comment to Knightley.
• laughing outloud again at several lines & visuals. Ex: the zombie monkey ‘trade’.
• Swamp Witch: I can see that some would have issues with her elocution .
  It took me one scene to get the rhythm...then I understood her...Husband had more difficulty.
  Thought she was a great new character, and although one poster commented wondering why would another immoral being have any sensibilities of loyalty or tendencies towards helping Captain Sparrow...this made perfect sense to me.....If we (as an audience) are enamored of Sparrow why wouldn’t his fellow thieves in arms have a soft spot for him. He is a very charming blackguard.

To slightly twist the meaning of Brian Keiths dialogue in The Wind & the Lion when he spoke of other pirates.
The give & take moments when charaters are feeling magnanimous or humored, add to the whole POTC feel. There is often an almost bemused affection and connection, generated over time, between two opposing forces.

..if you aspire to greatness, you have a narrow, crooked path to climb, mostly in the dark. Here and there, your way will be lighted by other great men, some of whom will be your enemies.

 

[Patrick.C]

This is a bit OT, but for fans of the film, Stern is about to release the POTC pinball machine. Pics are here:

http://www.pinballnews.com/games/potc/

And video is here:

http://www.webwidevideo.com/p1051

If you watch the video through to the end, you will see the Flying Dutchman actually sink into the playfield. Very cool.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Just saw this. Overall I liked it. I didn't ejoy it as much as POTC:COTBP, though.

Especially agree with the following:


I too hope the third gets more back to the heart of what made the first so great.

Also, I think Jack Sparrow is the best role Johnny Depp has ever done.

 

[Ken Chan]

I'm not surprised it did so well the first weekend. The first film did well in theaters, and more people see it on video, so there's a pent-up demand to see the sequel. As usual, however, while the sequel does better box office, it just isn't as good. (There have been exceptions, of course.)

Captain Jack Sparrow was fresh and interesting in CotBP, but here, he was less of the same. Will Turner is the Cyclops of the franchise, and has little of interest to do, even if they tried with the inclusion of his father. I wonder what the writers would have done if they hadn't originally cast Keira Knightley, someone who has certain advantages trying to pass as a man

While there were some good set pieces, the film just dragged in places. I'm not sure editing alone would have solved the problem. Also, from the audience's perspective, it's not a simple matter of "you can't cut that out because it was good". If we hadn't seen it in the first place, we wouldn't miss it if wasn't there. But if it had tightened the movie and made it flow better, what is there would have been appreciated more -- as long as the movie as a whole provides enough payoff.

Not trying to detract from those that genuinely liked this one, but there's no denying that reactions have been mixed. I wouldn't be surprised if the third installment doesn't do as well. I forget if that happened to The Matrix, or to Back to the Future, the first movie I can recall that did parts two and three back-to-back. In those cases, Matrix 3 has actually worse, while BotF 3 was definitely better than 2. Box office is not a reflection of quality.

 

[Ray H]

Am I the only one who fails to see the "spitting image" resemblance between Stellan Skarsgard and Orlando Bloom that was often mentioned in the first film?

 

[Yee-Ming]

I can confirm that those Chinese characters do indeed say "pirate". However, it looks like simplified Chinese, which would not have been the case in the 18th Century (it was introduced in the 20th Century), but not having studied the original unsimplified Chinese I can't be certain.

I thought it was common knowledge that Chow Yun Fat was cast in Pirates? In fact, IIRC he missed appearing in a Hong Kong benefit event/concert for the tsunami victims, because he was either contractually prohibited or felt he could not, reveal his appearance publicly -- something to do with either the hairdo, beard, or both, which he sports in the movie.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty good; unlike some critiques here I didn't have a problem with what Elizabeth did at the end, bearing in mind what Jack had done (or tried to do) earlier to Will.

As for the East India Company, my colonial history escapes me, but IIRC even in real life, the East India Company to all intents and purposes was the epitome of a large corporation run amuck, trying to carve out its own fiefdom that answered to just about no one but its profits, and maybe in passing to the Crown. In effect, they tried to control colonies as if they were their own little playgrounds, monopolising all commerce that ran to and from the colonies, with little regard for what today would be considered fair. Hence, I can see why Lord Becket would be considered a villain. Indeed, whilst per se his overt mission to rid the area of pirates would be perfectly above board, it seemed to me that he was simply looking to create and enforce his own personal hegemony over the Caribbean. Definitely a villain. Unlike Norrington, whom I could sympathise with as someone who was simply trying to regain his former position as best he could.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I heard that last year. And the year before. Maybe it's jinxing ILM. We should quit saying it in May or July. Let's call a moratorium on that sentence.

Technically, Davey Jones is the most realistic CG character in screen history. But I doubt WETA is terribly worried, having 4 of the past 5 Oscars (beating TWO Star Wars films, the earlier Pirates film, and the Matrix sequels), and having done the same thing and adding evoked sympathy on a villain and a giant monkey with no dialogue. How can we determine if ILM will be robbed before we see The Fountain??? Hmmmmmmmmmm...

As for the no sequel rule, a series got the Oscars 3 years in a row, and Spider-Man 2 the year after. I think that is still speculated. It's not like ILM would have won last year Their work here was their usual fine work, with some added spark and creativity for the crew of the Dutchman. I can't get too excited about the Kraken, because I saw Deep Rising. This is more polished, but nothing new.

For the record, I praised the effects before seeing it. And they were mostly great, as expected from ILM's varsity efforts. I LOVED the crew, and would love to see the concept art and CG models for them. So many layers and details. Best and most creative work I've seen out of ILM since Pirates 1.

I think Barbossa was a far superior villain than Davey Jones. If for no other reason that the line: "A man so evil, hell itself spit him back out." Rush actually made that work throughout the film. But Rush had more screentime than Nighy.

 

[Chris Atkins]

To quote my good friend Chuck Mayer: "none of that is in the FILM."

 

[Ricardo C]

I thought Beckett's interest in Davey Jones' heart was enough to peg him as the villain. He is not only willing to pact with the devil to accomplish his goals, he's actually going to try to command him? At the very least, he's a madman. Forcing Elizabeth's father to turn his authority over to Beckett wasn't an exercise in nobility, either. He does a pretty good job of painting himself as a power-hungry weasel.

 

[MikeRS]

Loved it.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Hard to believe that a light movie like this warrants so much discussion. I admire the enthusiasm but am mystified because of the source.

Definitely not part of the tidal wave of appreciation that exists for this franchise.

My verdict, enjoyable but quickly forgotten.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I'm the opposite. I thought it decent in the theater, but now I'm itching to see it again. It's by no means the equal of the first to me, but it's..compelling. I love the Flying Dutchman and crew, though they looked out of place on the sunny island. Better suited to grim, moonlit shipwrecks.

 

[Will_B]

moved to Review thread

 

[Chris Atkins]

Chuck:

I had the exact same itch to see it again after my first viewing...and in fact I went back the next evening. But it didn't hold up for me on second viewing.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Sometimes arguing charcter development and plot points is more interesting than philosophy and intellectual rabbling about a dishwashing scene in a foreign movie.

 

[MikeRS]

I enjoyed this film much more on second viewing.

It still took too long to get started, but everything else got better.