*** Official PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: Dead Man's Chest Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Lou Sytsma]

My biggest two gripes:

1) DMC suffers from no charm. The biggest culprit is... Jack Sparrow. The line between scoundrel and jerk is a fine one. Sparrow moves beyond that and into a**hole territory. Willing to sacrifice his crew, Will Turner, etc for his own interests.

2) Without getting into specifics since you have not seen the movie yet, there is a moment between Sparrow and Knightley's character on the Black Pearl near the end that was totally out of character for her. Especially after Sparrow just did something that she said he would when the moment arose and she knew it. It ranks right up there with the Padme falling in love with Anakin after he confesses to being a mass murderer moment.

 

[Michael:M]

This is the discussion, so no fear about spoilers. I think Liz kissing Jack was very in character, as she's been attracted to pirates her entire life, and the movie clearly set up her mixed feelings about "the bad boy" earlier on. I don't think she _really_ wants Jack, but she's a young woman trying to figure herself out. And an another board, someone wrote that DMC is about all the main characters being or becoming pirates...so what we see is Liz crossing the line and using Jack just as he used her and others. We also see her feeling grief-stricken because it was an awful thing to do, and she doesn't like how it feels after.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I don't think Lou considered the kiss out of character. It was what she did AFTER (or during) the kiss. It twarn't that big of a deal for me.

I assume Jack was being Jack with his Davy Jones deal...stalling for time. He was going for the heart the whole time (not souls), so his plan was to finagle a better position. Because this film didn't complete the story arc (as CotBP did), that isn't clear to the audience. But I am assuming it will be.

I'm not going to see it so soon afterwards. But I would like one more watch.

 

[Dennis Castro]

Saw this over the weekend. Didn't love it but didn't hate it. I loved the first one. In fact so much so that it was my favorite movie that summer. Saw it four times.

This seems like two and a half hours of set up. Although there we some great scenes and Depp is always was very good as Sparrow, it didn't seem to have the same spirit of swashbuckling fun and adventure that the first one did.

I will admit that I did go into the film with some expectations so I will see it a second time. A second viewing may play better.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Nothing shocking here, but the USA Today article mentioned the concept artist behind the crew...Mark "Crash" McCreery. I hadn't thought much about it (and I don't travel those circles), but it's totally his work. Just thought that was cool. Still no sign of a book detailing the crew, so I guess I'll wait for the Cinefex.

 

[Michael:M]

I've seen it twice already, with a third viewing in the next week or two likely. Last movie I did that for was Batman Begins, and I don't recall another movie that I've willingly paid full price for to see twice or more in the last 7 or 8 years.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Correct and . Really Chuck? I find your lack of reaction more shocking that what Liz did to Jack. You find that in character for Liz?

Especially after the big speech she gave him about coming to a moment when he would have to choose between himself and others? He made that choice, she knew it, and she still went ahead and shackled him to the mast. Even without that bit, her doing that is not believable for her character. Of course, it was a cheap device to have Jack go down with the ship.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Right and knowing this, why would anyone want to rescue him? Makes no sense.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

My thoughts:

First I loved the film and thought it was a great second act. I want to answer a question from the first page that I don't think got answered. The reason why Davy Jones keeps recruiting I think is because eventually the other pirates become part of the ship as evidenced by that one down in the hold.

I think most people expect to see more of the same carefree witty rascal that jack Sparrow was in the first film. Bear in mind that he was dealing with people he KNEW he could handle and were of nno real threat to him. But now, he is dealing with Davy Jones and the Kraken and he is under pressure. He was blindsided by Bootstrap Bill and got marked with the Black Spot. The Black Spot is only there for two reasons, 1.> To remind him of the death sentence and 2.> To let everyone else know he is marked for death and their lives can meet a gruesome end as well. In the film youb see everyone react very profoundly to seeing it and you see jack keeps that hand covered. The Kraken will hunt Jack regardless of whether or not he has the spot. And the reason it never hunted him before was simply because his time was not up yet.

Jack is a pirate, he will lie, cheat and steal and kill but right now he has an undead pirate crew and a mythical sea monster chasing him so I can forgive him not being as jolly this trip.

 

[Michael:M]

Because he's not a Barbossa or Davy Jones - Barbossa essentially tells Jack this in the first movie, that he's too soft and, in effect, care too much about people. Now, this is relative - Jack obviously doesn't care about other people as much as Will or Liz. But in the world of pirates, he appears to be fairly humane - in fact, he agreed to do equal shares of treasure with his crew before they mutinied, and he did help save Liz and Will before. He also came back to the Pearl and helped drive of the Kraken, when he could have escaped.

Additionally, Will, Liz (her betrayal at the end of DMC notwithstanding) and even Gibbs are basically good, decent people, and willing to risk everything for a friend - not because Jack would have done the same, but because it's what their code of friendship demands.

 

[Chad R]

But, saying one thing and doing another is precisely what makes characters complicated and interesting. Sure, Elizabeth did lecture Jack on doing the right thing earlier, and later shackled him to the mast. But, that's not out of character just because she said one thing and did the other. Actions often define character more reliably than words.

Look at Michael Corleone in the first "Godfather". Right off the bat he tells Diane Keaton that essentially he doesn't want anything to do with his father's business. But everything he does thereafter speaks otherwise, and he does indeed go into his dad's business in more ways than one.

Elizabeth similarly speaks one way, but when the time for a choice came, she made the bad one -- one she regrets. I'm sure most of us would like to think that put in the same circumstance, we'd choose the noble path -- but realistically, we'd choose the one that saved our own lives, and the lives of those we love, a majority of the time.

 

[Ricardo C]

Because at the moment, at least, they believe Elizabeth's story of how Jack opted to sacrifice himself to buy them time. He's been more than redeemed in their eyes, even in Will's, who although obviously upset by the kiss he caught them sharing, still admires the honor of Jack's supposed sacrifice.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I did feel it was in character. She's a woman


Chuck

 

[LindaLep]

If anyone's interested in learning the history of the Black Pearl, I suggest going to the official Disney site for the film. Go to the section "Games" and click on Black Pearl 101. There's a whole explanation there of the ship and Jack's past relationship with it and the East India Trading Company. Since it's an official Disney site, I'm assuming this information is canon. Also, the official website "Keep To The Code" has the writers posting often on the messageboards (the site's temporarily down at the moment). They've also explained Jack's association with the Black Pearl and his debt to Davy Jones. I just wish this had been mentioned in the movie and I don't have to read about it on several message boards and movie sites after the fact.

Any speculation on Lord Cutler Beckett's comment about Jack leaving his mark on him? The general consensus I'm hearing is that they think Jack turned him into a eunuch. LOL!

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I'd love to read that stuff, Linda. As for your speculation...he seemed far too happy to be without his "better" half. But that's a nice devious thought.

For those gearheads interested in CG animation, here's a long thread at CGTalk where some of the artists, including Knoll, discuss the basics of Davey Jones. Their comments are worth looking for.

Click me

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Ricardo C]

Very nice finds, Linda and Chuck

 

[MikeRS]

Truth.

As the screenwriters flaunt, Sparrow follows the 'trickster' archetype to the hilt, which lends itself it to a certain moral ambiguity.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Chuck:

The most amazing thing in that thread is the revelation that the beached Black Pearl wasn't real...apparently it was a miniature which was filmed and inserted into the on location photography.

WOW.

 

[PattyFraser]

Ah Michael, you mean you want WETA should retaliate with another 3 visual effects Oscars in a roll?

But I agree--this year's Oscar goes to ILM, as does make-up, I would guess. All the ones "King" stole from them in 2004.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Seeing what I've seen with miniatures in the last few years, especially Master and Commander, I wasn't surprised that the BP was a mini. I knew they didn't build the real one. on the beach But nothing in the film indicated that...that was just knowing it. The insertion was flawless. As I've said, this is certainly ILM's strongest showing, and they've had some amazing efforts the past few years. I would love to see Knoll get an award.

But I'm not saying anything until the year closes out. I keep bringing up The Fountain, which certainly won't be better technically, but should have some brilliant low budget effects work in service of something, well, truly special. I won't say anything about "deserves" or "robbed" until I've seen it.