Not impressed so far with video quality from Panasonic RP91 DVD player... (1 Viewer)

[PaulKH]

Please, I don't want to turn this into yet another jitter thread. I've read this affect PCM (CD) audio and not DD or DTS.

I think audio differences are harder to determine/describe than video ones, anyway.

I'll play with the RP91 more this evening and see if I have a change of view.

 

[PaulKH]

John Tillman - regarding how non-anamorphic movies look, I couldn't really care less actually since I won't buy non-anamorphic widescreen titles on principle. You also only said they look 'damn near watchable' - not exactly glowing praise.

Scott - there's certainly a ton of parameters on the RP91... my view on such things is generally they will just make the image less natural and may hide other flaws in the player, but that's not what I want.

Anyway, hopefully better feedback later...

 

[Todd Hochard]

Jitter is not much of a prblem with Dolby Digital or DTS audio. Unlike PCM, these compressed formats use packetized data where timing and sync are functions of the decoder.

I was just about to say this very thing.
Jitter MAY be a factor with PCM, but is doesn't belong in a discussion with DD/dts.
Outboard DACs are a funny animal. The manufacturer can "color" the sound to their (and your?) liking in the analog portion of the circuit. That is much more likely than a significant (read audible) jitter correction going on. Whatever the reason, if the sound is to your liking, then the outboard DAC has done its job.
Back to the discussion. I haven't seen either DVD player, but based on the HUGE amount of praise for the RP-91 here (and everywhere else), I'm surprised by the finding. I considered the 91 (or its successor) to be my next player, but I might have to check more carefully. All Toshibas are automatically disqualified from my list, though- no discrete on/off codes.
Todd

 

[Dan Driscoll]

Paul,
Count me as another who thinks there is a problem with your set-up or that you might have a defective unit. I have had my RP-91 for 2 weeks now and I am still amazed at the picture quality and I haven't even made any adjustments yet.
But to be fair I should point out that the RP-91 replaced a Pioneer DV-333 interlaced player, a true entry level unit.

 

[PaulKH]

John Morris - Initially I used two (different) sets of interconnects for the two players, and of course I concluded this might be a problem. Then I tried both with the same exact trio of interconnect component cables and got the same results (although this was tedious connecting and reconnecting), and I then even tried using the original two sets of interconnects on the opposite players... same results.

Again, basically what I was seeing was minor, but noticeable, sporadic dots of color that were out of place compared to the surrounding image.

Also John, why do you use Auto2 and not Auto1?

 

[John Morris]

OBI: Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. It helped me to understand a bit more about jitter.

Obi and Todd: Does this mean that if you use a players internal DACs to decode PCM then jitter errors are NOT introduced? I am trying to get the best possible sound from my system, within my budget, and if adding an outboard DAC will improve 2 channel performance, then I'd look into it. Right now, I am so happy with the sound of the 555es, for both CDs and of course SACDs, that I'd be suprised if it could sound better for less than $1K more. Still, if eliminating jitter will make my system sound better, I'm all for it.

 

[John Morris]

Also John, why do you use Auto2 and not Auto1?

Paul: look HERE

 

[RicP]

Right now, I am so happy with the sound of the 555es, for both CDs and of course SACDs, that I'd be suprised if it could sound better for less than $1K more

John, prepare to be amazed. I have the 333ES, essentially exactly the same player as you but stereo-only.
Go Here and check it out. I've had one since last January(subsequently modded by Dan Wright www.modwright.com) and it is completely phenomenal. It is quite a bit better than the DAC's in the 333 (ergo better than the 555 DAC's as well).
Of course this is for Redbook audio, not SACD.

 

[Martin Rendall]

Paul,

I've noticed that nobody who's posted in the RP91 defence seems to have directly compared it with the 4700, as you have. From what I've read, it's certainly feasible that the 4700 has a better deinterlacer/3:2 blah blah blah than the RP91. Even the more economically priced RP56 supposedly has a better picture.

I suspect the RP91 is the best all-round player, but there may be a slight video compromise going that route - and it sounds like video is the one area where you refuse to compromise.

Martin.

 

[Dalton]

Paul,

I think i might be the only here to agree with you. While i thought the audio performance of the 91 was top notch, i never got the picture the way i wanted. It just never looked all that great. Just to let everyone know, I did try all the tips and tweaks from this forum and others. I also tried a second unit but to no avail. I had it hooked up to a Panasonic 56" 16X9 HD ready set with Monster 3 componet cables. Since i took it back I have tried the JVC progressive unit, the rp56(excellent picture but i wanted dvd-audio), and now the Toshiba 4700. I don't think i'm gonna keep this one either. It has dropouts with the optical connection and the Chroma bug is very noticable. So my search continues........

 

[PaulKH]

I think i might be the only here to agree with you.

Sniff - I love you man.
I don't want people thinking that I believe the RP91 is BAD. It isn't. It's very good. But, and I'm still having a hard time putting my finger on it, it may just be that I've become used to Toshiba DVD pictures! It may be that the Toshibas soften the image enough in a way that hides grain on the DVD image itself but that the RP91 is more 'accurate'... who knows. But after watching it very closely tonight, maybe I think I'm seeing motion artifacts now... hard to say. I've switched to Auto2 and played around with Fine, Cinema, etc. The manual says Cinema should be used for films so why doesn't everyone use that all the time for film DVDs? Also, anyone have any idea what it does? It looks like the color's a bit less saturated and the picture's a bit software but not as soft as the 'soft' setting. But then when I compare it to fine, which really does bring out fine details, I think I'm missing something in cinema mode...
By the way, the DVD I've been using for tonight's tests is Shrek (1.78:1 disc 2) which I at least know doesn't have film grain!
This DVD business can drive you mad! I've been saying for years, Home Theater is FAR MORE COMPLICATED (and potentially confusing) than ANY PC setup! There also seems to be more B.S. out there regarding HT than computers!

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Paul,

Have you set the black level to "darker" in the setup menu (the same area where you tell the player you have a 16x9 or 4x3 monitor)? This is the recommended setting for the player using component video connections, and I found it to provide a richer, more detailed picture than the "lighter" setting on my set. Other than that and setting the interlacing mode to AUTO2, I did not mess with any other picture controls.

While I love my RP-91, if you find that the Toshiba 4700 provides a picture more to your tastes, I would return the Panasonic and keep the Toshiba. After all, you are the person who needs to be satisfied.

 

[PaulKH]

Thanks Scott. Yep, I set darker.
Another thing I'm wishing for is a way to set 'global' settings and not PER DVD. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. But when I set auto2, that seems to be for a specific DVD, isn't it?
Oops - nevermind... RTFM.
Re: auto1 vs. auto2... not sure what the heck auto1 is doing... I stuck in Bicentennial Man DVD and the **MENU** flickers in auto1, but not auto2! Crazy.
Also, I've noticed I can't change settings when the disc is at the menu... WHY!?

 

[John Morris]

RicP: Yes, I first checked out the PA-1/3 combo when I went and looked at the Diva 6.1 speakers the other day on AV123. I was intrigued but skeptical since apparently one of the mags found that it induced audible jitter into the playback... or something like that. Did the mod that you had done correct for this, or was that finding a testing error. And, I bought the 555es, over the 333es, because it was reported that the DACs in the 555es were used in parallel supposedly producing higher fidelity in 2 channel playback versus the 333. Not True? Thanks for your help!

Oops, PS, and I have no idea if the Toshi 4700 IS a better player than the RP91. Just that my RP91 does not exhibit what has been described...

 

[Gruson]

I would not be surprised if your unit was defective. I believe 1 out of 3 RP91s has something the matter with them.

I would still like to upgrade from my Toshiba 6200 but am a little worried. I have never had a problem with my Toshiba.....

 

[Scott-C]

I would still like to upgrade from my Toshiba 6200 but am a little worried. I have never had a problem with my Toshiba.....

I'm right there with you! I'd really like to pull the trigger here, ebay my Pioneer DV-37, and get the RP-91, but some of the stories I'm hearing about quality control are scaring me off a little bit. Maybe I'll wait until more players incorporate DCDi into them and then make the move (???)

 

[RicP]

I bought the 555es, over the 333es, because it was reported that the DACs in the 555es were used in parallel supposedly producing higher fidelity in 2 channel playback versus the 333. Not True?

Hmmm. I'll have to investigate this. It may be so, but I only use the 333 as a transport for Redbook Audio anyway, so better Redbook DAC's wouldn't be such a big deal for me anyway.
The ModWright mod of the P-3A is astounding though...what an improvement...just smooth like honey.

 

[John Morris]

RicP: Here is a quote taken from the Stereophile report:
"The P-1A digital/digital processor can enhance resolution to 96kHz and 24 bits now, and eventually will output 192kHz. It will also correct loudspeaker amplitude and phase (and the acoustics of your room as well). RD, once he figured out the P-1A's multifunction buttons and myriad flashing lights, found that "the timbral qualities of instruments seemed more true to life, with less of the synthetic "digital" character that many audiophiles dislike about CD sound." He much preferred the sound of the P-1A/P-3A together than the P-3A alone (see "Digital Processors"), finding the pairing more detailed, with greater clarity and a smoother, more grain-free upper midrange and treble. "Enabling Resolution Enhancement (Output Bit Density set to 24) took performance to a higher level still," he enthused, voting for Class A for the combo, despite the apparent and significant worsening of the measured performance compared with the P-3A alone, particularly with respect to jitter. This worsening was even apparent with theoretically better I2S connection between the P-1A and P-3A. Another sample has been requested for further technical probing. This recommendation is therefore provisional
Has this been corrected, or amended since this was posted... or, is this reported jitter inaudible, and therefore, mythical(hey, I'm joking)?

 

[RicP]

Yes I remember that.
IIRC, it turned out to be a poor I2S connection between the P-1 and the P-3. WHen they used a different (non-defective) cable, the jitter measurement went down to what one would expect. Also, setting up the proper connection between the P-1 and the P-3 is tricky. There are a few ways you can do it.
I believe once PerpTech was alerted, they advised on the best way to hook them up and everything went back to normal.
I don't know if they ever posted an update to the website. Perhaps I'll e-mail J.A. and ask him.

 

[John Morris]

it may just be that I've become used to Toshiba DVD pictures! It may be that the Toshibas soften the image enough in a way that hides grain on the DVD image itself but that the RP91 is more 'accurate'... who knows.

Paul: I was then gonna suggest that it may be your HDTV, but then re-read your first post and saw that it is a Pioneer 510... which uses supposedly the same internals as my Pioneer 643hd5... so I just don't know what to recommend other than to return the RP91 and use the Toshi 4700. What really matters is what YOU see and what you like. Sounds like you have a combo that works for you... Enjoy!