Not impressed so far with video quality from Panasonic RP91 DVD player... (1 Viewer)

[Keith Smith]

I have the Pioneer Elite PRO-710HD and would say that the internal line doubler is so good that for anamorphic DVDs, the interlaced DVD video is hardly distinguishable from a progressive player output. My interlaced player is the Elite DVL-91, and if I were only watching anamorphic R1 DVDs, I would not need another player. I have three progressive scan players which show their superiority on non-anamorphic discs. For non-anamorphic R1 discs, my Panasonic RP-91 is the star performer, giving images very much like what I'd see from an anamorphic DVD.

For those of us with the x10HD sets, the scaling ability of the RP-91 makes a major difference. Also, the ability to fine tune the image for each disc, and save the settings is a big benefit. DVD-RAM playing ability is another feature that I'm now using a lot.

So, it's worth the effort to get a non-defective RP-91 player, to hook it up and set it up correctly. If you do this on a well-functioning Elite x10HD monitor, you will see progressive scan video that is just outstanding. That's the way it looks to me as I watch seated 8 1/2 feet back from my 710 screen.

Keith Smith

 

[Gruson]

I am just curious, what does the RP-91 go for these days?

I am thinking about getting one just for my non-anamorphic DVDs....

 

[Ron Reda]

Gruson,

Mid-to-high $400s. I got mine delivered via Fed Ex for $500 even.

Ron

 

[PaulKH]

Keith Smith - the Elite x10 internal line doubler is very good, but not perfect. I can easily tell the difference between it and a progressive DVD player input.

I was very happy with deinterlacing an interlaced DVD player output for a couple of years, but eventually got to be able to see the problems.

But here's an update on my RP91 experiments:

First, some of my initial very negative impressions were based on having the MPEG DNR button on the front engaged. DO NOT USE THIS. It makes the video look HORRIBLE.

Second, the 'Auto2' setting I'm now using exclusively does seem to do a better job than the Auto1 setting.

Third, I made sure my TV settings are the same for the inputs from both the 5700 and RP91. Granted, due to differences in the players themselves, this may not be right, but at least it's a level playing field. I need to do a Video Essentials calibration on the RP91 input, although I don't own that title - have to go get it from BlockBuster.

After a careful review of footage from Shrek, A Bug's Life, 2001 (again), and The Matrix, on both the RP91 and the Toshiba 4600, I will say that the images are very similar, and the RP91 not having the chroma bug is a nice plus. The Toshiba display does seem richer in color, which might be true, but I shouldn't let this throw me, because that's adjustable on either the TV, the DVD player, or both.

However, the RP91 is a bit strange. For example, on a lot of DVD menus (chapter selection, setup, play movie, extras, etc.), the player 'gets it wrong' as far as how to progressively display it, and it flickers. Also, why can't I change display settings while a DVD menu is showing? It only works when there's a disc in the player and the movie is playing!?

I did some more careful comparison of audio, and basically it seems like the Toshiba 4700 puts out more bass than the RP91. Yes, on digital outputs! Sounds weird, but maybe the 4700 modifies the outgoing data for a 'more impressive' output?? Kinda like those cheesy bass boost features. I've never put my subwoofer above '1' on its volume setting with my old 2109 Toshiba or the 4700. Maybe the RP91 is just more accurate?? [Hey just had another thought - maybe the Panasonic has speaker parameters that I need to set up that affect even the digital output!?]

Anyway, thought I'd post the follow-up in case anyone was interested.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

However, the RP91 is a bit strange. For example, on a lot of DVD menus (chapter selection, setup, play movie, extras, etc.), the player 'gets it wrong' as far as how to progressively display it, and it flickers.

Paul, could you elaborate on what you mean by "the player 'gets it wrong'"? Are you referring to the windowboxing used when menus are sometimes displayed? If so, that is because those menus are not anamorphic widescreen, but instead 4x3 full frame. The RP-91 is displaying them properly if you have the 4:3 aspect control set to AUTO.

If you mean something else, I would be curious as to what you are seeing.

 

[PaulKH]

Scott - thanks but no, I understand the menus will be displayed with pillars since my setting is 4:3 for 4:3 material. What I mean is that menus on a lot of DVDs flicker a lot (they look like the output is interlaced). They are ROCK SOLID always on the 4700. My old 2109 used to sometimes do odd things with menus as if it was only outputting one field sometimes. Anyway, the RP91 is ok once I start the movie, but the menus do look a bit odd. Also, when I select from button to button on a menu, I see 'zipper' (field sync) glitches, which again I don't see on either my 4700 or the old 2109 via the Elite's deinterlacer. My guess is there's no 'flags' for the RP91 to know how to deinterlace the menus properly, so it just 'wings it' and doesn't do a great job. Not earth shattering, but there it is.

Now, onto bigger news... there's something REALLY ODD going on in the audio section of the RP91. In the 'Action' setup, you can tell it what speakers you've got, test 5.1 setups, set lots of digital options, etc. Because of this, and because even the Toshiba supports various audio modification options (like dynamic range compression), I think these players really can modify the DIGITAL output as well as the analog ones.

The manual on the RP91 says nothing about the speaker size/timing/gain settings only applying to the analog outputs of the DVD player itself so I assume they apply to digital also.

Anyway, my receiver unfortunately doesn't decode DTS, but regardless, when I tell the RP91 to output a 5.1 test audio signal, I originally only heard output from the left and right front speakers (although when I play DVD material I'm definitely getting output from all 5.1 AND my receiver says I'm getting DD data). After that initial test I tried a bunch of the audio tests on the Ultimate DVD Platinum test disc (very helpful) and I'm definitely getting 5.1 DD output. NOW however, I can't get ANY audio except a tiny click/buzz from the player's built in 5.1 test. My settings are:

Speakers: Multi-channel

Digital output: On (Re-master off)

PCM downconversion: No

Dolby Digital output: Bitstream

DTS output: PCM

Dynamic Range compression: Off

Audio during search: Off

Anyone else's?

Anyway, that's all I got time to write right now...

 

[PaulKH]

Well... I've had enough. It just isn't cutting it, and I'm going to return it. It's just a pain in the *ss. I'll keep and live with the chroma bug on the 4700 and apply the ~$430 toward a new player in the future.

 

[Henry Carmona]

Ric,
Am i reading correctly?
The P1 runs for about $1100 PLUS, another $700 for the speaker correction software? Damn!

 

[george kaplan]

Well... I've had enough. It just isn't cutting it, and I'm going to return it. It's just a pain in the *ss. I'll keep and live with the chroma bug on the 4700 and apply the ~$430 toward a new player in the future.

Paul,

It's a real shame you couldn't get the rp91 to work out. I have lots of dvd players around my house, but the rp91 is light years better than any of the rest. It's hooked up to a pioneer non-elite 58' and looks noticeably better than other dvd players hooked up to the same tv. I don't know if you got a bum unit or what, but it's really too bad you can't take advantage of it.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Paul,
The flickering on the menus does not occur on my unit. It sure sounds like you received a defective player. Since you are quite happy with the Toshiba, I think you are making the wise choice in returning the Panasonic.
I would be interested to know if Toshiba fixed some of the glitches that the 6200 had on the newer models. You may want to try the DTS track on the seemless branching version of T2:UE before deciding to keep the Toshiba. My old Toshiba 6200 experienced audio drops and/or pops at the branching points.

 

[Craig Beierlein]

Anyway, my receiver unfortunately doesn't decode DTS, but regardless, when I tell the RP91 to output a 5.1 test audio signal, I originally only heard output from the left and right front speakers (although when I play DVD material I'm definitely getting output from all 5.1 AND my receiver says I'm getting DD data). After that initial test I tried a bunch of the audio tests on the Ultimate DVD Platinum test disc (very helpful) and I'm definitely getting 5.1 DD output. NOW however, I can't get ANY audio except a tiny click/buzz from the player's built in 5.1 test

>>>> I experienced the same thing with my RP91. Sounds great, and I am getting a DTS & DD 5.1 signal. Anyone care to explain this ?

 

[RicP]

Ric,
Am i reading correctly? The P1 runs for about $1100 PLUS, another $700 for the speaker correction software? Damn!

Yep, you read correctly. I don't use the Speaker Correction so the $700 was applied to the P-3A DAC instead.
These 2 units at $1800 sound better than DAC's I've heard costing $3000, and that's the honest truth. They're amazing, and if you care enough about 2-channel audio to get the very best, these units will not disappoint.

 

[Ron Reda]

I believe 1 out of 3 RP91s has something the matter with them.

Not mine.
I hooked mine up Friday night and haven't wanted to turn it off since. I now go to bed later and wake up earlier just to catch a DVD before the day starts.
No time to post my "official" review...will do sometime tomorrow...
Paul,
That's too bad things didn't work out with your player. I personally think you may have gotten a bad one, but I understand not wanting to go through the whole process again (even though I believe that once you get a "good" one, you'll be really happy).
Regards,
Ron

 

[RAF]

Paul,

I share some of your opinions on the RP91, but haven't had as bad an experience as you did. I feel that the RP91 is a good unit for the money, but it has a couple of annoying quirks that disappointed me a bit. The user interface isn't the greatest in the world (I don't have to tell you about that) and the build quality is no where near as good as my Sony 9000ES. And side by side I still prefer the SONY 9000ES's picture (my SONY does not have the chroma bug - at least it isn't noticeable in any of the examples that have been discussed on the net).

That said, I still have my RP91 and plan on keeping it in my system for a number of reasons. First is its DVD-Audio capability (I've coupled it with an Outlaw ICBM so there is no bass management issue). Secondly, the automatic aspect sensing is a great feature (when it works) in conjunction with my Sony VW10HT FP. The only downside to this is that when there is no autodetection of the aspect ratio, which is the fault of missing flags on the discs, and not the RP91, it can be a pain to switch from "Auto" to "Zoom" mode. There doesn't seem to be an consistency in effecting this change on the RP91. Sometimes you can do it on the fly and sometimes you have to stop the disc to get the aspect ratio to change. Once again, this might be due to the way that different DVD's are set up, but it can still be a minor irritation. All in all, however, the aspect switching is welcomed by me.

And a final item has to do with build quality and noise. My SONY 9000ES is the Rock of Gibraltar and the RP91 is a pebble. Granted, heft isn't everything, but after using the RP91 for some time and listening to its relatively noisy mechanism I can't help but wonder about how it will hold up for the long haul. Don't misunderstand. The RP91 is working, but I don't have the same degree of confidence as I do in my 9000ES.

Of course the RP91 only cost about 1/3 the price of the 9000ES. At the price, the RP91 remains a very good player for the serious enthusiast on a budget.

Take care.

 

[PaulKH]

Appreciate the kind words, guys, but here's some final thoughts...

For me, home theater components should operate 'transparently' meaning that ideally I shouldn't be aware of what they're doing - I should just be able to enjoy the show.

One of the reasons I began looking for a progressive DVD player was because I'd begun to notice glitches in the Pioneer Elite's deinterlacer more often when watching movies, and there's NO question that any of the 3 progressive players I've tried put out a superior picture than the Elite's deinterlacer alone.

The RP91 is a fine player. With some effort, it puts out a great progressive image with no chroma bug. However, for me, I just couldn't help noticing occasional video and audio glitches and that combined with a strange control setup put it over the top.

As for my Toshiba 4700 - I find it more user friendly and more transparent than the RP91, but it does have the chroma bug and a bug when displaying DVD 4:3 menus with pillars on a 16:9 screen (the cursor is still positioned as if there weren't pillars, an annoyance, but not a catastrophe). For a $250 player I can live with those two things. If Toshiba comes out with a rumored 9500 or some other high end model without these glitches, it will likely be high on my future buy list.

Good luck to all you RP91 owners.

 

[Ron Reda]

Well, here's the quickie "official" review:
On Friday night, I was finally able to sit down and set up my RP91. I made the necessary connections and powered on. Using the HTF RP91 FAQ that I printed off from DanG's thread way back when, I made the initial changes to the player (switched DTS output to bitstream, but didn't switch video output to "darker"). The menus were easy to use and I was able to navigate through them quite quickly, although I was a bit nervous when I was exiting the speaker settings menu. :frowning: Once it was set up, I slapped in the VE disc to do a calibration. I calibrated the TV (Toshiba 32" non-HDTV) using the "cool" temperature setting. Once the calibration was finished I sat back to watch a DVD. While demoing a number of DVDs, I noticed immediately that the sound quality increased ten-fold. Wow, the DACs in my old Toshiba SD1600 must have ROYALLY sucked! Anyway, the bass was a lot tighter and the signal seemed to be a lot louder. While I usually listen to movies at -15 with the Toshiba on my Denon 3802, I had to lower the volume to -25 with the RP91. One thing though...while the video looked good, it seemed to me that the colors looked a bit washed out. Needless to say, I was bit frustrated by that, so without re-calibrating the TV again, I boosted the color and got things to a point where they looked a bit better. Saturday night came around and I was still unsatisfied with the video quality I was getting. Then, I remembered the "darker" option in the player's menu. So, I went back and re-calibrated the player with VE with the picture setting to "darker." When I sat back down to watch a movie, I was stunned...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! I was amazed that the image looked so good! I mean the detail was unreal. In "A Bug's Life" I was able to see spots on Flick's face that I've never seen before. One by one, I tried many of my reference DVDs along with a bunch of favorites that I am very familiar with. All of the DVDs I checked out looked so much better. One thing I did notice was that the image that the RP91 put out on the supplemental DVD material (mostly video) looked pretty bad, but then I remembered the "Auto 2" setting and will make that change when I get home today. I also demoed some of my tried-and-true CDs and the RP91 brought out sounds that were previously unheard in my listening sessions. All in all, without even delving into the tweaks that are available on this player, I am very happy with my purchase.
BTW, will switching to the "Auto 2" setting affect the video signal when using the interlaced output?
Regards,
Ron

 

[Robert George]

Ron:

I suggest you use a different setting on your TV's color temperature. I don't know what each of the settings are called with this brand, or what actual color temperature is associated with each, but I do know "cool" is the worst you can use.

If there are three settings (most common), start with the bottom. "Warm", or whatever it is called on your TV. Re-calibrate the tint and color with that setting. I think you will see a real improvement in color, particularly reds.

 

[Ron Reda]

Obi,
I appreciate the feedback! I failed to mention that once I calibrated with VE on the "cool" temperature setting, I switched to the "warm" setting before I watched a movie. You're right...there was a marked improvement in color!
Can you tell me anything about the "Auto 2" mode?
Regards,
Ron

 

[StephenMSmith]

I've had my RP-91 for a month or so now and am quite pleased with how much better it is in every way to the Toshiba SD-9100 it replaced.

One thing I noticed that I haven't seen mentioned much is the screen type selection in the setup menu. Each of those screen type selections are just sets of hard-coded picture adjustments used for the N pref, except for Standard. Standard is the same as selecting U pref and making no adjustments. This is the why some people ask why the N pref is not equal to the U pref w/all 0's -- they've selected a screen type other than standard.

This could also be important to know if you had your set ISF'd w/your previous DVD player -- selecting anything other than Standard for screen type effectively blows away your ISF calibration!

Oddly, I found that the lighter/darker black level setting has *no* effect on the 480p output when the Standard screen type is selected. Anyone else notice this?

Steve

 

[Craig Beierlein]

Where in the setup menu on the rp91 is the screen to change Interlacing to Auto 2 that everyone keeps mentioning ? I don't seem to be able to find it.