New Reciever... COMPLETELY confused (1 Viewer)

[WitterKT]

Hey all, I'm brand new to the forum, but I'm looking to rebuild my home surround system. I've done a lot of research, but I just don't know where to go with it as I have to replace everything (stolen) and it seems most of the recommendations are based off of what you already have to match.

I am torn between a 5.1 and a 7.1 receiver. I guess I should go with the 7.1 since it downgrades itself if you don't have a 6.1 or 7.1 setup. I'm looking to spend about $500 on the receiver, but my roommate mentioned getting an HDMI receiver so we can fully integrate his PS3 and his 46" Sharp LCD HDTV.

The whole HDMI thing is confusing, but it seems that some systems have only video switching, some integrate audio switching, some are having problems with the OS menu in 1080p mode, some have issues with the PS3. It's almost a deterrent enough not to worry about HDMI.

The brands that I have been looking at are Outlaw, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, and Pioneer. There are a bunch of models within the $500 window, but Outlaw is sounding the best on the higher end (albeit $800) and Onkyo on the lower end.

I have no clue where to go for speaker set up. I really liked definitive audio, but the system I was looking at is about $1600. I've thought about settling for the bose acoustimass series for now, but I'd LOVE to hear about some better options to look at.

Sorry for the laundry list of problems, but I'm building this thing from scratch and I want to make some good, solid choices.

 

[WitterKT]

Oh yeah, our current living room is about 12x12 and I assume it will stay in that ballpark while I'm renting apartments.

 

[MikeNg]

That's a pretty small room. Depending on how you plan to set it up, you could have challenges in getting good 7.1 audio. If the cost is pretty close to being the same between 5.1 and 7.1, I'd get 7.1. Chances are you could use the 'extra' amp section to drive a second zone, if you were so inclined.

So in order to properly determine what equipment is appropriate, can you tell us:

a) complete room dimensions - 12X12X? Is it closed off from other rooms, or is it in an open floor plan?
b) Where will the listening/viewing area be? Against the back wall? Middle of the room? How far from the display?
c) What's your total budget for the receiver and speakers, and any other miscellany to get it all going?

I've heard some good things about this package -
http://reviews.cnet.com/Onkyo_HT_S99...-31934315.html

but the only thing that might be a deal breaker is that it does not have HDMI switching integrated. It can be had now for $649 here-
http://2ndact.biz/product/HTS990THXR...on-HTS990THXRB

Not a bad deal. There are other options, such as the x-series from AV123-
http://www.av123.com/products_catego...akers&brand=55

A 5.1 system based on this stuff should rock that little room! Paired with a good receiver and you're probably looking at about $1700 when it's all said and done. Not bad.

 

[MaxL]

first off, don't even think about getting the bose. they are very overpriced for what they are.

you've got a pretty small room, so you could get away with some smaller speakers if you really want to save $$. but in the long run bigger speakers (not towers necessarily, just bigger than mini sats) will sound better even in a small room. for the cheap small option, it's got to be the athena micra 6 from audio advisor. also on the same website are the AS series athena speakers, various configurations for great value and surprisingly good sound. the p6000 sub is passable soundwise too, but svs subs better.

the next choices for speakers are the svs packages, great closeout deals on at the moment, great entry subwoofer. then there are the various deals from saturdayaudio.com on psb and monitor audio.

the biggest factor is going to be what kind of sound you like. in a room that small, loudness shouldn't be an issue. psb tends to be neutral, monitor audio warm and svs and athena lean to the brighter side of neutral (but not extreme).

you really should go out and listen before you buy. listen to as much as you can in and out of your price range. confirm that the extra $$ is worth it sound wise. then if you buy over the internet you still have an idea how it compares to what else is out there.

if you're looking $500 for the receiver, $1000-$1500 is a good budget for speakers and sub. most people on this forum feel svs is the best you can do for the money at most price points. of course i love my martin logan dynamo @$600 it sounds great and is plenty for a mid size room and yours is small (assuming you don't have some crazy high ceiling).

as for the receiver, at this price point there's not a ton of difference sound wise. personally, i'm in no hurry for HDMI, but i don't have HD anything. IMO the standard is not yet sorted, but many people are happily using it in various configurations, so... i think you're on the right track brand wise. marantz has one or two models you could afford too. onecall is running an incredible deal on this old model. you won't find better sound for the $$ ($400), but no HDMI, actually i think it's s-video. but you can always run the video directly to the monitor.

otherwise, yeah, onkyo, yammy, pioneer tend to be pretty competitive. there's been a lot of positive talk about the new onkyo's in particular, supposedly being released in weeks.

anyway there shouldn't be any problems using any of these receivers with any of the speakers i mentioned. they should all play together nicely.

good luck

 

[WitterKT]

Thanks for the responses, MaxL and MikeNG. This is our floor plan. It's 12Lx12wx12h, but one of the sides opens up into a small walkway and the dining area that's part of the kitchen. We have a sectional couch on the back wall and the TV is in the corner... so our backs are either the the wall on the bedroom side and the kitchen.

I looked at the Marantz reciever and think I might go in that direction, as I really liked the dinosaur Marantz receiver my dad gave me about 10 years ago (it's dead).

I checked out SVS systems, but the reviews claimed that they lacked good music potential. I also looked at the AVS123, but I've never heard of them before.

So with that said, I think I have my receiver picked out unless anyone has any personal qualms with the Marantz linked above. I'm still kinda stuck on speakers/subwoofers and whether to go with a 7.1/6.1/5.1 setup. Any amplifying/addional ideas?

 

[WitterKT]

Sorry, that's 15.6x12.

 

[MikeNg]

That Marantz seems like a killer deal. I've never tried that one before, but their better product lines are pretty solid.

I believe you can try the AV123 X-series for 30 days with free return shipping (essentially a full refund - it costs you nothing if you don't like it).

From their site:

You should be glad that room was not a perfect cube. You'd in a world of standing wave hurt (the bass in the room would have resonated a single note, and its harmonics). Personally I would not go large speakers in that room. A small sat/sub setup would be great.

 

[MaxL]

mike- just for the OP's sake, let's say what we mean by our potentially vague speaker size terms. i think of there being basically 4 categories for most speakers shape/ size wise:

1)mini - these are what i think of as sats or mini-sats. they are usually the little speakers that come all together in one box. they are smaller than an average bookshelf speaker, probably smaller than 10" in any one dimension or about 1 liter or less volume (imagine a 1 liter evian bottle).

2) small - these are your standard bookshelf speakers. they are typically in the neighborhood of 15"x6"x8" but at the small end, not much bigger than a mini-sat and at the large end, maybe 20"x10"x10". they can be called monitors or stand mounted as well.

3) large - these are generally the floorstanding or tower speaker. anything at or above 2 cubic feet is a large speaker these days.

4) other - these are the various flat, wall-mounted, tall and skinny, trapezoidal and other shaped speakers. they come in many sizes and shapes but are not conventional in their design and therefore can't be adequately described by size category.

that's what i mean, anyway. is that what you mean mike? are you suggesting what i call mini or what i call small?

KW- i also question any kind of statement that given speaker is good for movies but not music. movies are full of music. i can see (or hear) that different speakers have different sound, and some speakers might sound better to some ears for certain kinds of content than others. and i can see one favoring one speaker for, let's say rock music and another for jazz. but soundtracks are loaded with all kinds of music and lots of human voices. our ears are more sensitive to subtleties of the human voice than music (unless, maybe we are music professionals). so it would seem to me that a speaker good for HT should handle most music very well. also movie soundtracks are very dynamic (extremes of loud and soft passages in close proximity) , generally much moreso than your average rock album. again this says to me a good HT speaker shouldn't be bad for music.

i'm not saying go buy the svs, just that i don't necessarily buy that particular argument against them or any supposedly good HT bad music speaker.

as always the proof of any speaker is in the hearing. so go by what sounds good to you.

 

[MikeNg]

I guess I should explain what I mean. Max, I think you explained it pretty well and my definition falls within what you outlined. However, when I say 'small' I guess I'm being specific to a speaker's ability to play a certain frequency range, and is less particular about its form factor.

I think ALL speakers should play darn near up to 20KHz. On the other end of the spectrum is where things stratify. I'd categorize it this way -

Mini - plays down to 120Hz +/-3dB
Small - plays down to 80Hz +/-3dB
Large - plays down to 40Hz +/-3dB
Full Range - plays down to 20Hz +/-3dB

If I use this definition, I may have a 'small' speaker according to your parameters, but affectively it behaves like a 'mini'.

Despite our differing vantage point, I think we're on the same page when it comes to the OP. A good system will do music AND HT well, with the latter being actually harder (greater dynamic range). As far as speaker size, I'd probably lean towards the large mini on your scale, and small on my scale.

 

[LanceJ]

For a lot of people, a speaker that sounds better with movies than music has a brighter sound for improved dialog comprehension and just an overall more "punchy" quality which is helpful for reproducing noisy action scenes. But this isn't always desirable for music, which is heard continuously, and in turn that more "exciting" sound can cause listeners fatigue sooner than if the speaker was more laid back/warmer sounding.

 

[gene c]

There's the old saying that for music you want accuracy and for movies, impact. To me, that translates into a flat (smooth) response for music and boosted bass (huge sub) and treble for movies. I would think a good speaker setup could handle both equally well but a system could be tailored to better suit one or the other. I also think inexpensive speakers, like the Polk R series, are better suited for movies.

 

[Dan Keefe]

www.axiomaudio.com is your friend.

You can get some outstanding speakers for very affordable prices.

Depending on which model Denon you are looking at, I would go with them. After extensive research I settled on them. There are so many opinions on this board it is overwhelming at times. I find everyone makes a great case for what they own. My advice is to read through it all, figure out what YOU are looking for, then take all this advice and make a choice based on all the great info that can be found here.



Welcome to the home theater forum, we hope you enjoy your stay

 

[WitterKT]

So I've purchased the Marantz reciever mentioned above. I just am not sure what surround speakers to go with. I think I'll go with one of SVS's subs, but what about the speakers? So far the recommendations sound like this:
SVS
HSU
AV123
Axiom
Athena
Infinity
JBL (someone was saying they're pretty sweet).

I am on a retardedly busy schedule at work right now, so I think I'm going to make this choice from a chair. It's a bad idea, I know, but I need some speakers and I don't have the time to sample them all.

What is the forum's view on these speakers competing? I'm willing to spend about $1500...

 

[MikeNg]

I'm still voting for the AV123 speakers.

As a counterpoint, there's this review of other bookshelves for your viewing...
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...er-face-off-iv

And the review of the X-series...
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...helf/onix-x-ls

The SB-12 would be a great sub for that room. Are you leaning towards any one in particular?

 

[LanceJ]

All those speakers you listed sound different form each other, and only you can decide which sounds best to you.

Personally I like Infinity's and JBLs. Infinity's are marginally more accurate but JBL's have more of a punchy/fun personality (some would say "colored").

Don't forget Boston Acoustics, which is what I own. BA gets slammed a lot on forums, but every time I ask what their problem is, no one replies. I'm not saying you will like the way they sound, but IMO they offer a lot of technical sophistication but without the pseudo-audiophile features many other manufacturers claim for their gear which inflates their prices. Their lack of real wood veneers except for their top models also helps keep prices down.

 

[WitterKT]

Are there any specifics on speaker wire I should get?

 

[LanceJ]

If for some reason the speakers you buy don't include recommendations on this issue, this might help: Speaker Wire - A History

Since the article speaks of someone who worked for McIntosh, just in case anyone isn't familiar with this decades-old/true hi-end/no-audio-voodoo company, here's their website: www.mcintoshlabs.com (one little "quality" fyi: any time you see that black front panel on a piece of McIntosh gear, remember it is made of glass, and the etching for the back-lit labeling was done by hand ).

 

[Greg Gable]

AV123 but you really have to listen and find out what you like.

 

[vm8444]

hey guy the marantz I have too blends really well with tuns of speakers

depends on what you want ,,
forward ,,warm ,,neutral it all depends on you,,
I have 200 dollar missions m70 that sound amazing with marantz ,, psb sound really good too,,with marantz
just my 2 cents because I heard em myself ..& the above mentioned set up rocks

I use an audioquest cabling with it
vdm 1 for digital coaxil and aq inexpensive speaker cables too
best bang for the buck


peace vm