New open home/shop barndo construction build. Suggestions for high quality systems!? (1 Viewer)

[ridbenavides]

Howdy!
In the early stages of building a massive 160x60 shop/house barndo out in the country. The house is 50x60 with an additional 30x60 patio space. I want to fill both these areas with a custom, high-quality system. We will have an 80"+ TV as a main with 2-4 additional TVs throughout the home/patio. We want the ability to do it all.. stream sports, music, movies etc. Occasionally, we may host parties and/or events. I like the ability to jam out inside the 80x60 shop, but nothing crazy.
I do like the concept of all built in. Awaiting final floor plans to consider where I want this system and its many components.
I know it all sounds complex and like such a massive project, but that is why I am here. Budget realistically max 50k.
If this was your dream home or ultimate project sound system, what would you suggest?
Considering all options/opinions.
TIA!!

 

[ridbenavides]

I forgot to add.. I am also looking for a fully automated system to power the entire house and its numerous equipments! Lighting, audio, wifi, doors, window blinds, appliances, etc.
I am leaning more to Savant.
Please advise and if anyone knows a reputable dealer in the TX Hill country area?

 

[JohnRice]

Sounds like a fun project. Lots of details need to be figure out.

First, the whole "built in" aspect can mean a lot of different things. It can also be the biggest tripping point. The reality of that tends to not be what people generally assume it to be. I really recommend against having it too inflexible, and too extensively built-in. If you're thinking there will be a central location for electronics, I suspect that won't be the best solution in the long run. Each location will probably have its own electronics, with some sort of wireless connection between them. That's very easy with music, but more complicated with video.

In general, we just need more detail. I expect using something like AirPlay to distribute audio, and probably an AppleTV (which is a streaming device) at each one what has a TV. You'll also need to set up multiple WiFi access points, which is actually pretty easy as long as you can run an ethernet cable between them. That also can be done wirelessly, but with this much distance to cover, wired backhaul would be much better.

 

[ridbenavides]

Sounds like a fun project. Lots of details need to be figure out.

First, the whole "built in" aspect can mean a lot of different things. It can also be the biggest tripping point. The reality of that tends to not be what people generally assume it to be. I really recommend against having it too inflexible, and too extensively built-in. If you're thinking there will be a central location for electronics, I suspect that won't be the best solution in the long run. Each location will probably have its own electronics, with some sort of wireless connection between them. That's very easy with music, but more complicated with video.

In general, we just need more detail. I expect using something like AirPlay to distribute audio, and probably an AppleTV (which is a streaming device) at each one what has a TV. You'll also need to set up multiple WiFi access points, which is actually pretty easy as long as you can run an ethernet cable between them. That also can be done wirelessly, but with this much distance to cover, wired backhaul would be much better.

I do have multiple AppleTVs that I suppose we will be hooking up to each TV. All of my devices have AirPlay!
I do not necessarily want one central location but we are building a 14x14 CMU underground cellar/bunk that could potentially house all this. I am gathering as much thoughts.. maybe not practical? Whatever it takes to maximize quality and effectiveness of the entire system. Starlink has availability in my desired area. Will that be enough to cover the entire project? Also in contact with regional coop to possibly provide Fiber optic Internet. Internet is step 1 and critical. I need more ideas.
I will run between 2-3 CAT6 or CAT6A ethernet cables and HDMI fiber throughout the entire space and rooms.

 

[xx Brian xx]

Do you want this to be self installed? Do you want touch panels around the home?

You can get a Yamaha receiver in the main room for surround sound and then the Yamaha XDA-QS5400 quad streamer for 4 other zones. You can run the MusicCast system from a smart phone or tablet.

If you want to go with Sonos soundbars and amps, you can install Brilliant touch panels to run it. The Brilliant touch panel can also control thermostats, door locks, Lutron switches and more.

Personally, I would install Lutron RadioRa3 switches and a full control system like RTI, Control4, Elan or Crestron. However this will all need to be installed by a dealer and any changes down the road will need to be done by the dealer. So you want to find a dealer you really like...and trust.

Either way you go, you need to make sure it is prewired for network, speakers and video. I like to see 3 cat6 pulls for each TV: one for hard wiring the TV, one for a HDMI extender and one for a control system or IR extender.

 

[ridbenavides]

Do you want this to be self installed? Do you want touch panels around the home?

You can get a Yamaha receiver in the main room for surround sound and then the Yamaha XDA-QS5400 quad streamer for 4 other zones. You can run the MusicCast system from a smart phone or tablet.

If you want to go with Sonos soundbars and amps, you can install Brilliant touch panels to run it. The Brilliant touch panel can also control thermostats, door locks, Lutron switches and more.

Personally, I would install Lutron RadioRa3 switches and a full control system like RTI, Control4, Elan or Crestron. However this will all need to be installed by a dealer and any changes down the road will need to be done by the dealer. So you want to find a dealer you really like...and trust.

Either way you go, you need to make sure it is prewired for network, speakers and video. I like to see 3 cat6 pulls for each TV: one for hard wiring the TV, one for a HDMI extender and one for a control system or IR extender.

A professional contractor will do all the work. Everything needs to be thought and designed within the next 60 days, so I have time to build my list! The pad is currently being built, and then on to the foundation.
I do like the simplicity of having 1-2 touch panels throughout the home and having access to IOS devices.
Considering five runs for the main living area, four runs in the patio, three runs in each bedroom, and one for each access point (indoors, outdoors, and shop). Can't forget home audio, thermostats, window blinds, lighting, and cameras...
OM4 & COAX are probably going in about two spots.
All conduit piping leads to ideally one central network panel rack in the cellar. Thoughts?

The home audio system is what I need more help with. I figure 12AWG speaker wire throughout. I need 3-4 zones. My father has some old Klipsch speakers that I need to look up, but we want all new equipment. We are familiar with McIntosh and Marantz products as well.

I will look into the full control systems you mentioned and hopefully find/talk to a dealer in the area.

 

[JohnRice]

It sounds like you’re looking for a whole-house integration system, which is something I’m not a fan of, plus it is well out of my wheelhouse, so I’ll leave it to others who have more knowledge on the subject than I do. I can say that your installer will want you to buy their installer specific brands, which is also out of my area. It sounds like a fun project though.

 

[ridbenavides]

It sounds like you’re looking for a whole-house integration system, which is something I’m not a fan of, plus it is well out of my wheelhouse, so I’ll leave it to others who have more knowledge on the subject than I do. I can say that your installer will want you to buy their installer specific brands, which is also out of my area. It sounds like a fun project though.

What would you suggest/do in this type and magnitude of project? Given the limited details.
I am weighing all options. It is at a ranch about 40 miles away from the nearest city. My father is still old school and might not even like a fully integrated system. If for any reasons for system malfunctions, power outages, dealer rep, customer support, etc. that might not be ideal.

 

[JohnRice]

What would you suggest/do in this type and magnitude of project? Given the limited details.
I am weighing all options. It is at a ranch about 40 miles away from the nearest city. My father is still old school and might not even like a fully integrated system. If for any reasons for system malfunctions, power outages, dealer rep, customer support, etc. that might not be ideal.

That’s a big question. This is just my preference. I like to know how stuff works, and to be able to change what I want. I also want to select the components, and be able to change them when I want, rather than be limited to installer brands.

Integration tends to reduce flexibility. I prefer independent systems, which can be fed a common audio source through AirPlay, for example. The need to wire throughout the house is mostly a thing of the past.

 

[xx Brian xx]

You mentioned liking Marantz receivers, so you could run a Marantz in the main room and Heos amps in the other zones. This way you can link all the zones for music or play what's on the TV to the other areas.

If you don't want to be tied to an av dealer, you could install Lutron Caseta switches and set them up yourself. Install a smart thermostat, like an Ecobee, maybe some Hue lights and smart door locks and then set up an iPad with one page only showing the smart home apps. This page will be your smart home controller.

In the media/smart room, install a networked power supply like Wattbox or Big Dog Power. Then set them up to monitor the network and when the modem goes down, they will power cycle the network to get it back up. You can also add delays for powering up everything so the network comes up first and then the other devices will come on over the next few minutes. I have some devices that are delayed 5 minutes before they are powered on to make sure the network is up and running first.

I've had a smart home for almost 10 years and wouldn't go back to the archaic world of multiple remotes. We can have music playing outside and when we turn on the TV, audio automatically switches over. I don't have to remember what input outside TV is on. If we entertain, we can hit one button and music comes on in the main areas at a moderate volume. Then at the end of the night, one button shuts down all the rooms. We can look at the remote, touch panel or our phones and see what is on in the house and turn it off. It's unlimited what you can do with the right system.

You could do all of this with Apple HomeKit or a number of other DIY apps so you don't have to rely on an av dealer.

The main thing is to plan how you want to control everything and then build it accordingly. I agree with John, this would be a fun project.

 

[ridbenavides]

You mentioned liking Marantz receivers, so you could run a Marantz in the main room and Heos amps in the other zones. This way you can link all the zones for music or play what's on the TV to the other areas.

If you don't want to be tied to an av dealer, you could install Lutron Caseta switches and set them up yourself. Install a smart thermostat, like an Ecobee, maybe some Hue lights and smart door locks and then set up an iPad with one page only showing the smart home apps. This page will be your smart home controller.

In the media/smart room, install a networked power supply like Wattbox or Big Dog Power. Then set them up to monitor the network and when the modem goes down, they will power cycle the network to get it back up. You can also add delays for powering up everything so the network comes up first and then the other devices will come on over the next few minutes. I have some devices that are delayed 5 minutes before they are powered on to make sure the network is up and running first.

I've had a smart home for almost 10 years and wouldn't go back to the archaic world of multiple remotes. We can have music playing outside and when we turn on the TV, audio automatically switches over. I don't have to remember what input outside TV is on. If we entertain, we can hit one button and music comes on in the main areas at a moderate volume. Then at the end of the night, one button shuts down all the rooms. We can look at the remote, touch panel or our phones and see what is on in the house and turn it off. It's unlimited what you can do with the right system.

You could do all of this with Apple HomeKit or a number of other DIY apps so you don't have to rely on an av dealer.

The main thing is to plan how you want to control everything and then build it accordingly. I agree with John, this would be a fun project.

Thank you for all the info! Definitely has me looking around at all these products. So many to choose from!
Would you consider housing entire smart room/network rack, cabling, miscellaneous equipment in the underground 14x14 cellar? Then have other wired or wireless equipment (HEOS, streamer amps, etc.) in living room or desired areas. OR have it all seamlessly built in living area for easier access?
I am a newbie at all this stuff so bear with me.. Been reading and researching for the last several days now.
Exactly what you have said I want! No multiple remotes. One button controls on/off. Ability for any of us to have access on multiple devices.
At the moment, I am looking into what routers and access points will work best with Starlink given limited ISPs in the area. Any thoughts? I have heard of Eero, Ubiquiti, Ruckus, Orbi, just to name a few.

 

[JohnRice]

At the moment, I am looking into what routers and access points will work best with Starlink given limited ISPs in the area. Any thoughts? I have heard of Eero, Ubiquiti, Ruckus, Orbi, just to name a few.

It you are already wiring for ethernet around the building, you can simply use multiple, regular wifi routers set to "Access Point" mode rather than using mesh systems like Eero. Like these other options, it's more tech work on your end, but in the end it provides better coverage. I didn't even know that was an option until I was redoing the wifi in my house a couple years ago and learned it's an option. It's actually rather simple, once you know how it works, and really is the best solution when you have ethernet wiring already.

Brian is providing some other options for wireless solutions. There are multiples, and it's just deciding what's the best for you. I have all Marantz head units, and looked at using HEOS, but it wasn't what I wanted. It certainly could be what you want. No loss in trying.

 

[xx Brian xx]

If you hire a company to install your network, they will probably install Luxul, Araknis, Ruckus or Ubiquiti and they will charge you to monitor it. I recommend installing Ubiquiti access points yourself with the Ubiquiti Cloud Key and you can monitor it yourself.

The Cloud Key will keep all devices up to date and you can access it from anywhere to check the network health. Ubiquiti also makes cameras and poe switches that will connect to the Cloud Key. If you do a full Ubiquiti system with their Dream Machine you won't need the Cloud Key because it's built into the Modem.

However, if you are using Starlink, you will have to use the Starlink modem and an adapter to connect to the switch. In this case I would not spend money on the Dream Machine. I would get a Ubiquiti poe switch that would power the Cloud Key and access points.

You asked about keeping everything in one room. I like everything in one rack connected to a networked surge protector on a dedicated electrical circuit. Rack power should come straight from the electrical panel with nothing else on that line.
I don't run any HDMI cables from the rack unless they are under 15ft and I can access them after drywall is up. Imagine 3 years from now and the fancy HDMI cable you ran through a wall doesn't work with the new TVs. Now you have to try and run a new HDMI cable, hopefully without cutting and patching drywall.

Instead I run cat6 cable and use HDMI over ethernet adapters from AV ProEdge. If HDMI standards change, I can just update the extenders or swap them out real easy. They are also not going to send a surge into your new high end Marantz receiver from a cable box or other component. Depending on the model, an extender can do ARC, CEC control and send the IR signal. I've been using a couple AV ProEdge extenders for over 3 years with zero issues. They do 4k UHD, Dolby Vision and anything else I send through them.

I hope I'm not throwing too much out there and confusing the issues.

 

[ridbenavides]

If you hire a company to install your network, they will probably install Luxul, Araknis, Ruckus or Ubiquiti and they will charge you to monitor it. I recommend installing Ubiquiti access points yourself with the Ubiquiti Cloud Key and you can monitor it yourself.

The Cloud Key will keep all devices up to date and you can access it from anywhere to check the network health. Ubiquiti also makes cameras and poe switches that will connect to the Cloud Key. If you do a full Ubiquiti system with their Dream Machine you won't need the Cloud Key because it's built into the Modem.

However, if you are using Starlink, you will have to use the Starlink modem and an adapter to connect to the switch. In this case I would not spend money on the Dream Machine. I would get a Ubiquiti poe switch that would power the Cloud Key and access points.

You asked about keeping everything in one room. I like everything in one rack connected to a networked surge protector on a dedicated electrical circuit. Rack power should come straight from the electrical panel with nothing else on that line.
I don't run any HDMI cables from the rack unless they are under 15ft and I can access them after drywall is up. Imagine 3 years from now and the fancy HDMI cable you ran through a wall doesn't work with the new TVs. Now you have to try and run a new HDMI cable, hopefully without cutting and patching drywall.

Instead I run cat6 cable and use HDMI over ethernet adapters from AV ProEdge. If HDMI standards change, I can just update the extenders or swap them out real easy. They are also not going to send a surge into your new high end Marantz receiver from a cable box or other component. Depending on the model, an extender can do ARC, CEC control and send the IR signal. I've been using a couple AV ProEdge extenders for over 3 years with zero issues. They do 4k UHD, Dolby Vision and anything else I send through them.

I hope I'm not throwing too much out there and confusing the issues.

This is the information I need! Never too much.. Thank you much appreciated!
Sounds like I will be staying away from any dealers as we want full control and ability to pick & choose own equip.

Now another serious question... Is it possible to have one network panel rack that houses all my internet gear, lutron smart hub, poe switches, cloud key/gateway, power supplies, security systems, etc. in underground cellar and then that possibly power another panel rack in the living area for my audio system, receivers, amps, playstation, blue ray, etc.?
How would I go about something like that?

Apologies for the numerous questions on this thread! We're getting somewhere

 

[ridbenavides]

This is the information I need! Never too much.. Thank you much appreciated!
Sounds like I will be staying away from any dealers as we want full control and ability to pick & choose own equip.

Now another serious question... Is it possible to have one network panel rack that houses all my internet gear, lutron smart hub, poe switches, cloud key/gateway, power supplies, security systems, etc. in underground cellar and then that possibly power another panel rack in the living area for my audio system, receivers, amps, playstation, blue ray, etc.?
How would I go about something like that?

Apologies for the numerous questions on this thread! We're getting somewhere and building my list.

 

[xx Brian xx]

You just have to install a network switch at the locations where you have multiple devices that need to be networked.

 

[xx Brian xx]

I wouldn't totally write off using an av dealer. Depending on how deep you want to get into whole home automation, you may need a dealer to program it. Also, Lutron Caseta is great bit it is limited. Lutron RadioRa3 can be programmed to do way more. With Ra3 you can use 4 button keypads and have one button control multiple lights. You could have an entertainment button that turns on main lights at 60%, outside lights at 100% and maybe the foyer at 80%. Relax button might set living room at 50% for TV watching, outside and foyer lights off and kitchen at 30%.

I have my living room setup so when the TV turns on and it's after sunset, the lights dim to 60% and the shades close. Another button labeled Theater will turn off the TV, turn on the projector, drop the screen, turn the lights blue and ramp them down over 15 seconds, the Marantz switches to output two and the volume goes to 50. It also checks the shades and closes them if they are open.

A good dealer will make it easy so the buttons make sense for anyone to use. I hate when a dealer over complicates a remote to make themselves look smarter than the client. If a client can't work the remote without written instructions, something is wrong.

Talk to a few installers and see what they can offer you.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

For your dream home sound system project, I'd suggest investing in a high-end AV receiver, a 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound system, an 80"+ 4K UHD TV, additional 4K TVs for different areas, outdoor speakers for the patio, and a dedicated audio zone in the shop with controlled speakers. Consider a home automation system for centralized control. Allocate a portion of the budget for professional installation. Prioritize quality components over quantity for the best audio-visual experience. This approach should meet your needs for streaming sports, music, movies, and occasional events within your $50k budget.

No offense intended, but I'm really scratching my head here on why you're belatedly offering such a reply after all that was already discussed over a month ago -- and this is definitely not a first of such (though also not always quite the same way... though seemingly always just a one-off, however detailed/elaborate, nonetheless)... while you've also been sporadically asking for advice/feedback that sound like you're fairly inexperienced or something in all such (and often also as part of someone else's advice request thread and after the discussions have died out for some time like this)...

Call me very curious and a tad confused I guess, LOL...

_Man_