new about to build home theater setup need advice (2 Viewers)

[dasquriel]

Hi im wanting to build up my own home theater setup and ive selected speakers and amps and such and wanting to know if its a good way to go or if thered be any problems or better alternatives to my list thankyou


Center chanel

2 4" dayton midbass driver

1 morel 1 1/8th tweeter

custom crossover


left front

1 9" morel woofer
1 5/14" tangband midbass underhungdriver

1 morel 1 1/8th tweeter

custom crossover

?l pad?


right front

1 9" morel woofer
1 5/14" tangband midbass underhungdriver

1 morel 1 1/8th tweeter

custom crossover

?l pad?


Rear right

1 4" dayton midbass driver

1 morel 1 1/8th tweeter

custom crossover


Rear left

1 4" dayton midbass driver

1 morel 1 1/8th tweeter

custom crossover


Sub

bash 300 watt digital plate amp

dayton 12" refrence sub

SSF

custom crossover


Reciver

pioneer elite 5.1 110x5


Total cost will be 1200$ excluding cabinet building costs


Thanks!

 

[Jim Mcc]

Are you absolutely set on building your own speakers?


I think you can do much better for $1500 or less, buying them.

 

[Robert_J]

Do not just pick drivers at random and add a stock crossover and think you will get a good sounding speaker. Choose a published plan. Also, keep it simple. There is no need to build a 4-way main speaker. A simple MT (mid / tweeter) or MTM will suffice.


The sub components you have chosen are good but what about changing the SSF on the BASH amp? Unless things have changed, the BASH 500 has been shipping with the resistors setting the SSF way too high for a home theater amp. The BASH 300 is a better fit most of the time for the Dayton reference series subs.

 

[dasquriel]

Whats ssf? So id be better off with 3 ways up front nd 2 wAys in the back? Im trying to get apmple midbass is why theres so many drivers

 

[Robert_J]

SSF - sub sonic filter


When building a ported sub or installing a driver in a sealed enclosure, sometimes you have to filter the lowest frequencies out of the signal to keep the driver from going past its mechanical capabilities. If you are going to build a ported enclosure with an Fb of 20hz, then you want to set your SSF to 17hz (I like to go 3 hz to 5 hz lower than the resonant frequency of the box).


Ample midbass? The goal of a good DIY speaker is flat response or as close to flat as you can get it. You don't want one frequency or band of frequencies overpowering another. Here's a good design that has ample midbass - http://www.angelfire.com/music5/audio0/ . Here's a nice little write-up about why you want a flat response and why you don't want to use textbook crossovers - http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/phat/hpif.htm .


On the Speakerbuilder site I linked above, I have the DII's, DIII's and have heard the DHT's. All are excellent designs.

 

[gene c]

I definently agree about buying drivers, tweeters and crossovers, building a box and sticking them in and being less than satisfied with the results. I know. I've tried it. Several times. It doesn't work.


For me, it was building the box to the proper internal dimensions that was the hardest part. Not that I couldn't build a box any size I wanted, I certainly could. But it has to be the proper size. And I didn't know how to figure that out. This is why you can't just buy a woofer off the shelf and replace a worn out one in a Polk, Infinity, etc., speaker. It has to be compatible with the one you took out.


I then built a pair of speakers from a Parts Express speaker project (SC-5.1) and it all fell into place. They use the same driver and tweeter as my Swan 2.1's and using a simple PE 2-way crossover, with a modification, they sound pretty darn good. But the cabinet dimensions had been worked out for me. These drivers and tweeters were the same ones I had used before with poor results. The speakers were good enough but the cabinets were the wrong size. And it doesn't have to be wrong by very much.


So it's not that we're discouraging you from doing your own DIY prodject, but unless you have a good deal of experience and can design your own box and crossovers to the proper size and design you will most likely be disappointed with the results.


Do as Robert suggested and follow a proven DIY set of design and plans. There are many, many out there.


BTW, apparently those PartsExpress Reference Series drivers are outstanding from what I've read. But again, they're only part of the process.

 

[dasquriel]

Well thankyou for the responses. The proper enclosures and ports is no problem im well seasoned in box building and enclosure building in car audio as well as wood working and fine woodworking. im familiar with morel because as an installer at a highend shop we use morel alot so when i saw the morel 9" woofer i though of that as a good start to a 3 or 4 way, with good bass, and yes i understand flatness too much of anything is bad. but i want alot of air moving basically the goal is clear real but "club like". and i understand the importence of proper cross overs. so mabey ill stick with 2 ways for rear and 3 or 4 ways for front .would the be any negative results from having a 9" woofer a 6.5" woofer a 4" mid and a 1" tweet per tower?

 

[gene c]

It's good to know that you're experienced in woodworking. You didn't give that impression in your original post .


The worst part about using multiple drivers in a DIY project is the generic crossover is much less likely to be a decent match for them. The more complex the project is the less chance of it being a success. You stand a better chance using fewer drivers of higher quality than using multiple drivers. I wouldn't go more than a 3-way in any of them but of course, it's your call.


And remember, another function of a well designed crossover is to equalize the sound pressure level of the individual drivers. That's the thing that I immediately noticed when I went from a set of Polk RTi's to the Swan Diva series. The Polk's seemed bright, almost harsh to me but with the Swans the entire frequency response seemed to hit me at the same level. Nothing exaggerated, nothing left behind (within reason of course, considering their modest cost). But this is almost impossible to accomplish with a store-bought crossover so you might want to think about adding an L-pad, or a dual L-pad for a 3-way design. I haven't used them yet but considered it a couple of times. I have played around with some older Infinity 3-way speakers that had dual L-pads, one for the tweeter and one for the mid-range, and they seemed to work pretty well. If L-pads aren't a good idea then maybe someone will point that out. Researching them first is probably a good idea.


This is a very ambitious first time project. I hope it turns out the way you had envisioned.

 

[dasquriel]

[COLOR= black]ya I thought about the L pads i’ve never made my own crossovers in car audio but if that’s the way to go ill certainly do that. i just like the idea of having a 3 way because ina 2 way you have left out frequencies isn’t the whole point of a multi speaker setup to have each speaker doing its own job woofer 120-800 midrange 800-3000 and tweet doing 3000~20,000 otherwise you have the woofer trying to play mid’s when it should be doing mid' lows i just dont see it in the woofers job desciption to play all the way to where the tweeter starts there should be a helmpng man in the middle the mid range. i just cant see use a 2 way all around.. there’d be frequencies un-replicated [/COLOR]


[COLOR= black]so revised list. is at top of thread[/COLOR]



[COLOR= black]also is there any pics on here of any fiberglass custom cabinets or anything to that effect?[/COLOR]

 

[gene c]

There are some truely outstanding 2-way speakers on the market. The Swam-2.1se and Swan-M1 come to mind. The driver and tweeter are available from PartsExpress.com for about $80. And there are so many others. There are no lost frequencies with this type and quality of speaker. But there's nothing wrong with 3-way speakers either.

I don't know of any pictures of fiberglass speakers enclosures. Sorry.

 

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by gene c
And remember, another function of a well designed crossover is to equalize the sound pressure level of the individual drivers.

A crossover also tames enclosure induced peaks in the response (baffle step diffraction), keeps the impedance dips and spikes in check (zobel networks) and limits frequencies near the break-up points of the drivers (crossover frequencies). You need sophisticated measuring equipment to determine these settings.


You can go through a catalog and buy the most expensive car parts you can imagine but you don't have the experience, you can't build a race car.

 

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by dasquriel

[COLOR= black]ya I thought about the L pads i’ve never made my own crossovers in car audio but if that’s the way to go ill certainly do that. i just like the idea of having a 3 way because ina 2 way you have left out frequencies isn’t the whole point of a multi speaker setup to have each speaker doing its own job woofer 120-800 midrange 800-3000 and tweet doing 3000~20,000 otherwise you have the woofer trying to play mid’s when it should be doing mid' lows i just dont see it in the woofers job desciption to play all the way to where the tweeter starts there should be a helmpng man in the middle the mid range. i just cant see use a 2 way all around.. there’d be frequencies un-replicated [/COLOR]


[COLOR= black]so revised list. is at top of thread[/COLOR]



[COLOR= black]also is there any pics on here of any fiberglass custom cabinets or anything to that effect?[/COLOR]

If each driver was limited to the frequencies that you listed, then there would very few drivers to choose from when building a speaker. There are woofers that can easily play mid-range frequencies. There are tweeters that can play lower than 3,000hz. There are individual drivers that can play from 100hz to 20,000hz. A two way speaker does not "miss" playing any frequencies. My Dayton II's (see link above) play relatively flat from 35hz to 20,000hz using only a 6.5" mid-bass and a 1" silk dome tweeter.


The more drivers you add to your system, the more you have to take phase into account. Are you going with first order, 2nd order or 3rd order crossovers? I started in car audio and I thought more was always better. It's not. The fewer drivers you use in your speakers, the better sound you will get.