What's new

Tom St Jones

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
699
Location
the Great Northeast
Real Name
Thomas
THere are many musicals and films with very distinguished soundtracks/songtracks which have been released on disc but in mono audio only - not that there's anything wrong with that - either due to the stereo version or the multi-track masters being lost or too difficult to restore, or because little or no effort was made to locate them, or because it's simply the way the soundtrack was recorded & the studio decided to just leave it be (to the delight of purists, ofcourse).
Anyway, here are 10 films which I feel would greatly benefit - again, not that they aren't totally fine as they are - from a new stereo or surround mix (either from restored/remastered session materials or digitally-created):

CAT BALLOU (1965)

MAN WHO KnEW TOO MUCH, THE (1956) (For whatever reason, almost none of Doris Day's films on disc have stereo sndtrks, orig. or otherwise. I realize most came out well over 50 yrs ago)

MONSTER CLUB, THE (1980)

OCEAN's 11 (1960)

RADIO DAYS (1987)

ROBIN & THE 7 HOODS (1964)

THIRD MAN, THE (1949)

THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR, THE (1968)

TILL THE CLOUDS ROLL BY (1946)

WICKER MAN, THE (1973)


Is there a film or 2 you might add to the list?
 
Last edited:

Billy Batson

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
4,021
Location
London
Real Name
Alan
Well I think you could lose a couple off that list:

Radio Days - Knowing Woody Allen's dislike of stereo, I wouldn't think stereo had any part in that production.

Cat Ballou - I have the Twilight Time Blu-ray, & it's in 5:1 & 2:0 all stereo (I've just checked it using headphones) & the isolated score is also in stereo. Such a shame it's OOP & has yet to turn up on any other label, as it's a stonking Sony Transfer of a great sixties film.

It's a bit annoying when musicals are made in mono, I'm thinking of, Li'l Abner (1959) Paramount, & Robin & The 7 Hoods (1964) Warner. But for me, the age of DVD & Blu-ray, is the age of films in stereo, as I first saw so many films in mono (esp 50s films) that are now in great sounding stereo.
 
Last edited:

Robert Harris

Archivist
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
14,627
Real Name
Robert Harris
THere are many musicals and films with very distinguished soundtracks/songtracks which have been released on disc but in mono audio only - not that there's anything wrong with that - either due to the stereo version or the multi-track masters being lost or too difficult to restore, or because little or no effort was made to locate them, or because it's simply the way the soundtrack was recorded & the studio decided to just leave it be (to the delight of purists, ofcourse).
Anyway, here are 10 films which I feel would greatly benefit - again, not that they aren't totally fine as they are - from a new stereo or surround mix (either from restored/remastered session materials or digitally-created):

CAT BALLOU (1965)

MAN WHO KnEW TOO MUCH, THE (1956) (For whatever reason, almost none of Doris Day's films on disc have stereo sndtrks, orig. or otherwise. I realize most came out well over 50 yrs ago)

MONSTER CLUB, THE (1980)

OCEAN's 11 (1960)

RADIO DAYS (1987)

ROBIN & THE 7 HOODS (1964)

THIRD MAN, THE (1949)

THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR, THE (1968)

TILL THE CLOUDS ROLL BY (1946)

WICKER MAN, THE (1973)


Is there a film or 2 you might add to the list?
We searched for mag tracks on MWKTM(56), and found the original music in the Paramount vaults - saved in error, after destruction was requested.

All were recorded monaurally, with the exception of Storm Clouds Cantata, which was marked as stereo.

That single 1000’ can...

Was empty.
 

Matt Hough

Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
23,860
Location
Charlotte, NC
Real Name
Matt Hough
What's irritating about the sound of Li'l Abner and Robin and the 7 Hoods is that they both had soundtrack albums in stereo. In Li'l Abner's case in wall-to-wall encompassing stereo that is far more appealing to listen to than the muted soundtrack on the DVD.
 

richardburton84

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
542
Real Name
Jack
We searched for mag tracks on MWKTM(56), and found the original music in the Paramount vaults - saved in error, after destruction was requested.

All were recorded monaurally, with the exception of Storm Clouds Cantata, which was marked as stereo.

That single 1000’ can...

Was empty.

How very interesting, Mr. Harris. Do you by any chance know if those music tapes for Herrmann’s score are still around? Over at Film Score Monthly, I’ve heard conflicting reports about whether they survived or not, especially when Intrada Records included the score on a poll for a new Kickstarter re-recording to follow up their successful re-recording of Tiomkin’s Dial M for Murder (whether such a recording will ever happen in the present climate is questionable right now), leading quite a few people to believe they were lost.
 
Last edited:

Robert Harris

Archivist
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
14,627
Real Name
Robert Harris
How very interesting, Mr. Harris. Do you by any chance know if those music tapes for Herrmann’s score are still around? Over at Film Score Monthly, I’ve heard conflicting reports about whether they survived or not, especially when Intrada Records included the score on a poll for a new Kickstarter re-recording to follow up their successful re-recording of Tiomkin’s Dial M for Murder (whether such a recording will ever happen in the present climate is questionable right now), leading quite a few people to believe they were lost.
We had them moved to Universal, where they have been preserved.

They were found during our search for original audio on Vertigo.
 

John Skoda

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
301
What's irritating about the sound of Li'l Abner and Robin and the 7 Hoods is that they both had soundtrack albums in stereo. In Li'l Abner's case in wall-to-wall encompassing stereo that is far more appealing to listen to than the muted soundtrack on the DVD.

The sound on the stereo LI'L ABNER album is so strange. The orchestra is so aggressively stereo and glossy compared to the vocals it made me think they rerecorded the music tracks in stereo after the fact.

And the ROBIN album is not the soundtracks but a complete studio redo according to the notes on the DCC gold CD.
 

MatthewA

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,727
Location
Salinas, CA
Real Name
Matthew
1968's The One and Only Genuine Original Family Band got a full stereo soundtrack album but the movie itself is mono.

The Disney studios' first two fully live-action musicals, Babes in Toyland and Summer Magic, are interesting cases. Both released in mono and represented as such throughout their respective lives on home video, but they got stereo cast albums conducted by Tutti Camarata that are different arrangements from the ones in the movie. In the latter's case, Camarata did the film arrangements, too.
 

John Skoda

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
301
The Disney studios' first two fully live-action musicals, Babes in Toyland and Summer Magic, are interesting cases. Both released in mono and represented as such throughout their respective lives on home video, but they got stereo cast albums conducted by Tutti Camarata that are different arrangements from the ones in the movie. In the latter's case, Camarata did the film arrangements, too.

Yes! Those are fascinating albums. BABES is a complete studio redo, except for Ray Bolger's (and probably Ed Wynn's) vocal tracks, which I think are from the actual soundtrack with new orchestra overdubbed. MAGIC is mostly sound track vocals (maybe not for the title song) but with new orchestra overdubbed. "Ugly Bug Ball" has a lot of the (mono) soundtrack orchestra still there, but with occasional effects added to make it stereo. My theory on why they had to do this is Disney Studios wasn't regularly recording in stereo for movies until MARY POPPINS.
 

richardburton84

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
542
Real Name
Jack
Yes! Those are fascinating albums. BABES is a complete studio redo, except for Ray Bolger's (and probably Ed Wynn's) vocal tracks, which I think are from the actual soundtrack with new orchestra overdubbed. MAGIC is mostly sound track vocals (maybe not for the title song) but with new orchestra overdubbed. "Ugly Bug Ball" has a lot of the (mono) soundtrack orchestra still there, but with occasional effects added to make it stereo. My theory on why they had to do this is Disney Studios wasn't regularly recording in stereo for movies until MARY POPPINS.

I’m not sure if that really is the case. Sleeping Beauty’s soundtrack album had most of the score’s vocals re-recorded but for the most part retained the stereo orchestra recordings made for the film.
 

John Skoda

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
301
I’m not sure if that really is the case. Sleeping Beauty’s soundtrack album had most of the score’s vocals re-recorded but for the most part retained the stereo orchestra recordings made for the film.
Yes, but the SLEEPING BEAUTY orchestra was recorded in Germany, not at Disney Studios.
 

MatthewA

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,727
Location
Salinas, CA
Real Name
Matthew
Yes, but the SLEEPING BEAUTY orchestra was recorded in Germany, not at Disney Studios.

Germany at the time had better stereo sound recording equipment than whatever they used on 20000 Leagues Under the Sea and Lady and the Tramp, which was apparently suitable for four-channel sound on 35mm CinemaScope pictures, but not for a Technirama film that would be screened in 70mm with six-channel sound playing the music of Tchaikovsky.

I’m not sure if that really is the case. Sleeping Beauty’s soundtrack album had most of the score’s vocals re-recorded but for the most part retained the stereo orchestra recordings made for the film.

They reissued the actual film vocals in the 1990s IIRC with the expanded CD soundtrack.
 

John Skoda

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
301
Germany at the time had better stereo sound recording equipment than whatever they used on 20000 Leagues Under the Sea and Lady and the Tramp, which was apparently suitable for four-channel sound on 35mm CinemaScope pictures, but not for a Technirama film that would be screened in 70mm with six-channel sound playing the music of Tchaikovsky.

It's odd. Check out the producer's notes on the expanded CDs of LADY and 20,000. They recorded all the music for LADY in mono And for 20,000, they recorded 3 track, but "not true stereo as we know it today," he says. And then BEAUTY in Germany. Don't know what all was going on there, but it seems it took a long time to get a standard stereo music recording setup at Disney Studios in CA.
 

haineshisway

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
5,153
Location
Los Angeles
Real Name
Bruce
The sound on the stereo LI'L ABNER album is so strange. The orchestra is so aggressively stereo and glossy compared to the vocals it made me think they rerecorded the music tracks in stereo after the fact.

And the ROBIN album is not the soundtracks but a complete studio redo according to the notes on the DCC gold CD.
That is correct. They differ from the band tracks in the film.
 

richardburton84

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
542
Real Name
Jack
They reissued the actual film vocals in the 1990s IIRC with the expanded CD soundtrack.

True, but the film version of one of the vocal selections on the OST (Blue Bird) is technically still unreleased. I mostly brought it up since John Skoda suggested that Disney did the changes on Babes in Toyland and Summer Magic’s soundtrack albums because Disney wasn’t regularly recording in stereo at the time when Sleeping Beauty also differences between film and album when the score was already naturally in stereo.
 

Paul Penna

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
894
Real Name
Paul
Germany at the time had better stereo sound recording equipment than whatever they used on 20000 Leagues Under the Sea and Lady and the Tramp, which was apparently suitable for four-channel sound on 35mm CinemaScope pictures, but not for a Technirama film that would be screened in 70mm with six-channel sound playing the music of Tchaikovsky.
A lot of budget classical music records in the 1950s were recorded using the many symphony orchestras in Europe, some of them the creation of radio networks or state-supported, some ad hoc orchestras made up of members of them, and all highly professional. On the popular side, the budget-label 101 Strings was made up mainly of the Hamburg Radio Symphony Orchestra. I can't help thinking that budget considerations were behind Disney's decision to record the Sleeping Beauty orchestral tracks in Europe, as well as that for the Grand Canyon Cinemascope short.
 

John Skoda

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
301
I can't help thinking that budget considerations were behind Disney's decision to record the Sleeping Beauty orchestral tracks in Europe, as well as that for the Grand Canyon Cinemascope short.

Possibly. Certainly if technology were the problem, they could have gone over to Fox or MGM, say, where they had been recording beautiful stereo since the early 1950s. OKLAHOMA! recorded it's still-stunning sounding music sometime in 1954 over at Goldwyn Studios, I think.

BEAUTY was recorded in 1957, according to the CD. I also wonder whether the music strike that had such an impact on VERTIGO and DAMN YANKEES had anything to do with the decision to record in Germany.
 

Paul Penna

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
894
Real Name
Paul
Possibly. Certainly if technology were the problem, they could have gone over to Fox or MGM, say, where they had been recording beautiful stereo since the early 1950s. OKLAHOMA! recorded it's still-stunning sounding music sometime in 1954 over at Goldwyn Studios, I think.
It wasn't the technology that had US companies going to Europe for budget-conscious recording so much as musician wages. They weren't getting movie industry studio orchestra union salaries. Particularly when we're talking full symphony orchestra-size ensembles.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Sponsors

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
349,142
Messages
4,869,806
Members
142,489
Latest member
Lucrin
Recent bookmarks
0
Top