Making Star Wars LD Backup. How Record Dolby? etc. (1 Viewer)

[James Phillips]

Yes.

 

[Lee_H]

okay thanx alot, ill try to make sure the audio stays in .wav format at 16 44.1 the whole way through the capturing, editing etc. at which point i THINK ulead dvd workshop automatically may change the audio to the proper 48 instead of 44.1...

hope this works!!!

 

[ChristopherDAC]

You definitely should make yourself a custom Vegas template. The MPEG-II video codec is largely unrelated to the MPEG layer 2 audio codec, they don't have to work together or anything; you should specify 16-bit 48kHz PCM for the audio, and MainConcept will automatically resample it during the encoding phase. You're probably best off leaving the video settings as they are.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I think my WAV audio strip from my A/V capture for ROTJ was around 1.35GB for 132 minutes. That will leave you around 7GB for the video for a dual-layer DVD (bitrate around 6.8 Mbs, or just under 3GB for a single-layer DVD (bitrate around 3.0-3.2 Mbs, guesstimating). Using 8.0Mbs constant bitrate, I got a video file around 7.8GB.

For SW:ANH, the bitrates can be bumped up a little bit higher since the running time is about 8 minutes shorter.

 

[Lee_H]

ok chris that makes alot of sense.

just look at vegas, the output options are as follows IF SELEECTING MAINCONCEPT MPEG 2

under template custom, then audio:

audio mode- stereo mode, joint stereo, dual channel, mono (so i would assume leave stereo)

Psychoacoustic model 1 or 2, so i left as 1?

Audio Layer: select from layer 1 or layer 2. default is two, is layer one wav?

Bitrate KBPs: 32, 64, 96, 128, 160, 192, 224 (default), 226 all the way through till 448

Sample rate is 32, 44 or 48, 48 is default so i would leave that right?

maybe mainconcept codec doesnt let you export the mpeg 2 file with pcm audio?

should i maybe export as avi with some other codec or something? what would you recommend? i thought mpeg2 was the way to go.

i do see pcm available under avi for windows template

Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, PCM Uncompressed.
Video: 29.97 fps, 720x480, Lower field first.
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 0.909. OpenDML compatible.
NTSC DV video files compatible with Sony Video Capture.

im assuming avi files would be huge though...

patrick i dont see anything in settings for bitrates with mbs

i usually try to capture everything 740 480 and burn it the same way

 

[Patrick Sun]

I'm going to bow out because I don't use the Ulead/Vegas/etc DVD creating tools, so I have no idea what settings are needed.

I use WinDV to capture via firewire (with Datavideo DAC-100 in between LD player and PC's firewire input), VirtualDub to frameserve and strip out audio WAV file, GoldWave to edit WAV file if needed, ffmpeggui to create AC-3 file, TMPGENC 2.5x to encode video file, and DVD Author to author DVD once I get the video and audio files.

The other packages hide a lot of the settings behind their interface, so it's harder to know what bitrates you're encoding the video with unless you find the right dialogue box to specify it, or it just runs in AUTO mode and tries to make its best guess.

I take it you aren't interested in creating an inverse-telecined version where you pick off the frames from capture of the 24fps film source to do the encoding from? (I know, another can of worms...)

 

[Lee_H]

what do you mean pick off the frames? i know its another can of worms, but just roughly, what is that all about?

 

[Lee_H]

okay now im stuck here

i cannot export mainconcept mpeg2 files with pcm it seems

so i COULD export the video as mpeg-2 THEN export a wave file from the whole thing as a separate file PCM ,wav

then i somehow have to put them back together. i tried in ulead, no dice, only opens video files as far as i can tell, dvd architect, anyone know if it allows it?

im stuck..stupid mainconcept...is there a way to export from vegas with mp2 and pcm audio? maybe with a different company codec? or how do i get around this,.

seems sony dvd architect will allow you to change the audio track of the movie file...so i could simply CUT the mpeg audio that accompanies the mainconcept mp2 movie file export from vegas, and then just replace it with an import of the .wav pcm file i exported separately right?

thing is, this dvd architect looks much harder to use than ulead dvd ws2

looks to me like if you use mainconcept to make mpeg-2 files, its impossible for the audio to be pcm or have any dolby surround, or ac3 or 5.1 or dts information, so i guess in all those cases you need to render twice, one for video, one for audio, and put them back together again in say dvd architect. (so mainconcept limits you to simple stereo?)

noone other than mainconcept has an mpeg-2 codec with pcm out that works with vegas do they?

please tell me if anyone knows if this will work, and maintain the surround sound this way?

 

[Patrick Sun]

When you do an IVTC, you'll end up with a video file that has a 23.97 fps framerate, but when you encode it, you can have the program then create it with the normal 29.97 fps NTSC framerate, but it'll create the extra fields/frames from the good frames in the IVTC process to procure the cleanest video possible from the LD capture.

This describes how to do it with TMPGEnc, but it also shows you the basics:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/tmpg-ivtc.htm

I also described this in a post from a year ago:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...49#post2174849

(Scroll down to "Note 1" for the IVTC portion)

Here's another link using another piece of software.

http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

Google on "ivtc" and you'll see a lot of links on the topic.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

It seems MainConcept does have a problem. OK, here's my advice: Using VEGAS, trim your audio and video together down to what you want. Next, "solo" the audio track, and select "Render As..." under "File"; in the dialogue, select "Wave (Microsoft) (*.wav)", and under that in the drop down menu "48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, PCM". This will render out the audio to a file with the file name of your project unless you specify a different one. After that, take the audio track off "solo" and "solo" the video track. Under "File" select "Render As..." then "MainConcept MPEG2"; in its dropdown menu select "DVD Architect NTSC video stream" which will render out a DVD-compliant video file with no audio, again with your project's filename. Then, of course, you use DVD Architect to assemble the .wav and the .mpg into one DVD-movie.

 

[Lee_H]

thankx chris...thats what i thought...im just not at all familiar with this dvd architect...i guess ill have to learn this one, as i dont think ulead will allow me to mix and match the audio and video. you guys have been great help.

i dont understand why mainconcept wouldnt allow pcm out...and i think thats the only way to make mpeg-2 files from vegas.. oh well. hopefully dvd architect works.

my only concern is with video audio sync in burning!! yikes! but im assuming witih enough buffer it should work.

ACTUALLY JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING BETTER!

is there a program out there that will allow me to import the solo mpeg-2 and the pcm wave and put them together again as a new mpeg-2 with pcm? would adobe premiere or something else?

because if i can put them back together on the pc as a new mpeg-2 file, then i can preview it first to make sure there are no sync issues, and also i can use the ulead dvd workshop to make the dvds!

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I think that's what DVD Architect does, actually, except that it assembles a DVD authoring file [.vob?] instead of the more limited .mpg file. And you can preview your project before burning using Architect, but as long as you handle the audio and video together in VEGAS there should be no desync issues.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

quick off-topic (but still related) question...

I want to burn some vinyl to CDR and have the best-quality A/D conversion I can afford. What's the "bang for the buck" audiophile sound-card with decent A/D conversion...or does someone have an outboard device that easily connects to the PC via USB or something?

thanks!

dave

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I'm sorry to say I haven't the foggiest idea. Here are a couple of things to think about, though: if you are going to be duping vinyl to CD, you will need either a soundcard with a RIAA-equalised input or some kind of preamplifier. I know nothing about your audio setup, but it seems to me that your choices would be either an outboard preamp/processor or the built-in preamp of your audio reciever/amplifier. If one of these is a digital device, is it possible that it would have a direct digital output? I am pretty sure that the standalone ADC has pretty much disappeared from the audiophile arsenal, but so many devices these days have such a component. Are you sure, though, that you would not be better served by recording with a dedicated audio CD burner and then editing the Redbook files on your computer?

 

[Lee_H]

i get great result recording 24 bit with creative sound blaster audigy 2 extigy.

you can record it from a good turntable and before you save the wav, apply a declicker filter to take out any audible ticks or scratch noises (i usually only apply these to beginnings and end of tracks or low audio parts IF NEEDED, and i leave the max amount of audio as is.

If you want more or different tonal mastering you can post master with great programs like Izotope Ozone, but its not usually necessary depending on genre, and how pure to the original you want the sound.

 

[Ken Chan]

It's not one if its functions. Vegas is perfectly capable of outputting PCM by itself. Sync is not an issue. Take the timeline and render that as MPEG-2. Render the same timeline as PCM. Put both of those on a track in DVD Architect (or whatever) starting at 00:00:00.00 and they should match.

I recall some issues with Vegas and/or DVD Architect being picky about separate video (.m2v) and audio (.m2a) streams versus a combined program (.mpg) stream. Some prefer one or the other. For example, you might have to render a program stream, use that .mpg in DVD Architect, and replace the MPEG audio with your PCM .wav file. They may have fixed this; they recently released Vegas 6 + DVD Architect 3.

If you're going to keep the audio as PCM, you'll want a high-quality sampling rate converter to go from the laserdisc's 44.1KHz to DVD's 48KHz. I'm not sure about the one in Vegas, but SSRC is supposed to be good. You might try both and see if you can notice any difference

 

[Lee_H]

i was thinking i might try to capture at 48 instead of 44.1?

 

[Patrick Sun]

Using ffmpeggui, I don't have that option. When I do bump up the volume working with the stripped WAV file, I make sure I don't clip the peaks. Are there other affordable AC3 encoders that will allow for setting dialog normalization?

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I think Goldwave will allow you to convert from 44.1Khz to 48Khz, but I don't know how that affect playback and sync.

 

[Lee_H]

im going to try to capture with 48 khz instead of 441 maybe that will help keep the surround better?

also vegas has an export option for ac3, but im assuming thats just for audio right? that doesnt send out video...its just for audio, and you match the ac3 track and the video in another program like dvd architect?

 

[ChristopherDAC]

You can't capture a 44.1 kHz PCM bitstream as 48 kHz. A digital format is what it is, you just have to resample [a mathematical operation], and Vegas does that automatically in the rendering process, if you don't want to use other programmes which have been mentioned. And AC3 files are audio-only by definition; I have no idea why you would want one, anyway, if you are going with PCM audio.