Macroblocking on CRTs?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Dan Driscoll, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Is the Faroudja FLI-2310 de-interlacer macroblocking problem limited to digital displays, or does it show up on CRTs, also?
     
  2. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    It can show up on any display. I have a 53" Pioneer Elite CRT HDTV. I've used both the Zenith 318 and the Panny S97, both of which use the FLI2310 chip and I could easily see macroblocking on both. It depends on the display alot as well, but I could easily see it on my CRT elite.
     
  3. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Yep. Same here. My ISF'd Hitachi 57SWX20B (57") CRT RPTV easily shows the macroblocking problem in the FLI-23xx deinterlacer. I've had the Zenith DVB318 and both the vaunted Denon DVD-3910 and DVD-5900 in my home theater. ALL of them are now gone because of the macroblocking issues. The Denons were, as could be expected, much better than the Zenith in this respect but their video quality was still compromised. Totally unacceptable in DVD players with a price well north of $1000.

    I think that in general this problem is indeed more of an issue on panel displays and projectors based on DLP, LCD, and plasma technologies. CRT displays are not a magic bullet though, and it can still be present depending on the player/display/viewer combination. I think that some people are just more sensitive to seeing macroblocking than others.
     
  4. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Crap, I have a 53" Pio SD-533.

    Were you using DVI or component inputs? My 533 doesn't have DVI, but the Elite and Hitachi do, IIRC.
     
  5. Larry Sutliff

    Larry Sutliff Cinematographer

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    I have both the Zenith DVB318 and the Oppo player connected to a 47" Panny CRT. The macroblocking is fairly noticable on the 318; it has a good picture, but I have to crush black level slightly to get rid of macroblocking on certain DVD's. The Oppo player shows very little if any macroblocking on my display.
     
  6. Chris Huber

    Chris Huber Second Unit

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    Same here on my Panny 53 with HDMI. MB on the S97, but none with the Sony 975.
     
  7. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Has anyone tried a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi or Yamaha DVD-S2500 on a Pioneer SD-533 (or Elite Pro-530) via component inputs?
     
  8. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    The Sony 975 and the Pioneer DV-59AVi do not use Faroudja deinterlacers and don't have macroblocking problems. The Yamaha DVD-2500 and the Panny S97 are both Faroudja based players. The 59AVi is a great machine. I owned one for about a month but ended up with a Denon DVD-2900 instead because of the price difference. If you're looking for an upconverting player that doesn't use Faroudja it's a great choice.

    Dan, I used the DVI output on both Denons and the Zenith and on my display the macroblocking was still easily discernable.
     
  9. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    Problem is the Pioneer 59 only upconverts over the Digital connections and not over component. The poster uses a Pioneer 533 HD set which does not have DVI. My advice is to pick up a Panasonic RP82, or the XP50/XP30. I've tried several upconverting players and so far none of them have been any better than 480p from the RP82. I also have an Panny RP91 hooked up to my Iscan HD+ scaler and while it's very good, I still think 480p from the RP82 is better. One reason for this I think is because the Pioneer HDTV's do such a good job with 480p. Just my two cents.
     
  10. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    True, but the only player in this discussion that upconverts over component is the DVB318, and then only with by reverting the firmware to an earlier revision. I only mentioned the upconverting ability of the Pioneer because, along with the Sony, it doesn't use a Faroudja deinterlacer/scaler to do so. All of players mentioned in this thread based on the Faroudja FLI-23xx display the macroblocking problem at all resolutions - 480p/720p/1080i. If you're looking to get away from that then the Pioneer or the Sony should be on your list. The 59AVi produces excellent 480p component output.
     
  11. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    I should probably explain what I have and why I want to upgrade.

    I have a 53" Pioneer SD-533HD5 CRT based RPTV, ISF calibrated by Dave Levy. It does not have a DVI or HDMI input. My current player is a Panny RP-91. I am satisfied with the picture quality of this combination. Upconversion, whether via DVI/HDMI or component video, doesn't matter to me. I've seen a couple of upconverting players on CRT displays and wasn't overly impressed.

    The reasons I am looking to replace the RP-91 are because I want to add SACD and improve DVD-A sound quality. If the new player has better picture quality it would be nice, but it is a secondary consideration. However, degraded PQ (i.e., macroblocking) is not acceptable.

    The Elite DV-59AVi and Yamaha DVD-S2500 are at the very upper limit of my budget and even then I might have to buy used. My original budget was actually much lower ($300), but after doing some research I realized that there weren't any (new) players in that price range that meet my requirments. Other players I'm looking at are the Yamaha DVD-C950, Newcastle SD-860 or SD-871 and Denon 2900 or 2910. An attractive feature of the DV-59AVi, S2500, SD-860 and SD-871 are that they have hi-rez digital audio outputs (firewire). I am willing to to consider used.

    Comments and suggestions are welcome and encouraged. [​IMG]
     
  12. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    The Pioneer Elite 79Avi is just coming out, so the 59 may drop in price to make room for the 79.
     

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