Lossless Audio Question

Todd_Petersen

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
161
Hey guys,

I have had a decent HT for a while now but havent paid much attention to the newer technology.

I just bought a new 57in DLP 1080P TV and also a PS3.

I just came home with some BD movies - Kingdom of Heaven - Superman Returns and The Wild.

I am hearing alot about this Lossless audio and wanted to know more about it.

Kingdom of Heaven has Lossless DTS.

My question is, do i need a certain kind of receiver to decode this lossloss audio? I am using a B&K AVR 507 at the moment and i am not sure if it will work.

Can someone help me out?
 

MarkusP

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
113
Location
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Real Name
Mark
Hi Todd. Unfortunately, in your case, you will NOT be able to enjoy uncompressed audio. The problem lies with your PS3 and your B&K. Your B&K lacks HDMI inputs and so must rely on the 5.1 analog inputs in order to receive uncompressed audio from any blu-ray or HD DVD player. Digital inputs such as the optical connectors that the B&K 507 has do not have the necessary bandwidth required to carry an uncompressed audio stream, hence the need for either 5.1 analog inputs or HDMI.

The second problem lies with your PS3. It does not have any 5.1 analog outputs. All audio must be transmitted via HDMI (high bandwidth) or via Optical output which is bandwidth limited so can only transmit compressed audio. The OK news with this is that the compressed audio is at a much higher bitrate than what is found on standard dvds (thanks to storage capacity) so even though you can still only listen to DD or DTS, it sounds better than what is found on the SD DVD counterparts.

If you want to go the uncompressed audio route, you will either have to pick up a new pre pro / receiver or a different blu-ray player. At this time, that poses some difficulties as well since many of the newer receivers have failed to implement HDMI audio processing correctly and as such lack proper LFE output (Pioneer Elite, Yamaha). Certain receivers & pre pros also only allow for HDMI video switching and fail to process audio altogether (Arcam, Rotel, Pioneer).

On the blu-ray player side, I believe that the Samsung and Philips units lack on board bass management for their 5.1 analog outputs (sorry if I am mistaken) and so, if your receiver or pre pro lacks the ability to apply bass management to the 5.1 analog inputs (most lack this feature), you will not have the ability to correctly assign speaker distances, levels, bass crossover points etc for proper listening. That only leaves the Panasonic and Sony dedicated players as viable options if you want to use the analog inputs in your B&K.

Hope that helps.
 

Craig_Ehr

Second Unit
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Messages
385
Location
San Diego, CA USA
Real Name
Craig Ehr
Todd...I wouldn't bother upgrading your receiver/decoder for awhile either as the new HDMI v.1.3-capable units don't currently exist and won't until later next year at the earliest apparently. Do what I'm doing with my PS3 which is enjoying higher bit-rate DD and DTS via optical input (or coax or whatever) until the new receivers are available and affordable.
 

Todd_Petersen

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
161
Thanks for all the help guys.

I guess ill just wait for this lossless audio to be more common and cheaper before sinking more money into my system.
 

Joey^T

Grip
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
21
I have a PS3 and I'm looking to make use of the uncompressed PCM audio on the BD movie discs. Right now my receiver is an aging Pioneer which I bought 5 years back. It decodes DD5.1 and DTS but not PLII. Of course it does not have HDMI decoding. When I turn on the PCM option in BD movies like Black Hawk Down, I only get 2 channel audio.

I've read about the Onkyo TXSR604, which is a mid-range receiver that does HDMI audio decoding into full uncompressed 7.1 PCM. Is this a good option to go for right now (relatively affordable) or should I wait for newer receivers with HDMI 1.3?

Thanks!
 

Dave_P.

Supporting Actor
Joined
May 20, 1999
Messages
983
The Onkyo is a good receiver, and I think you'll enjoy the PCM tracks on it. Re: HDMI 1.3, realize that you'll also have to get a new TV with HDMI 1.3 inputs to take advantage of whatever video upgrade it may provide as well. I think we're pretty far off from that right now though.
 

Joey^T

Grip
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
21
Thanks Dave. I'll see if I can pick one up soon.

Also, I have a question about connection btw the PS3, my TV and the receiver. I am still looking to connect the PS3's video to my TV through component cables but route the HDMI to the receiver for audio. My Sony projection HDTV has 1 DVI connection and no HDMI. Is this feasible?

Thanks!
 

Dan Hitchman

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 11, 1999
Messages
2,712
So far, from what I've read the Denon 2807 is about the only HDMI receiver out that does 7.1 channel LPCM correctly with zero LFE channel level problems. It remains to be seen how high a resolution it will accept via HDMI, however. Blu-Ray could be able to do at least 24/96 at 8 channels and 24/192 at 6.

The new Chronos Blu-Ray disc will have a DTS MA lossless track at 24/96 and 6 channels. If none of these receivers will accept decompressed LPCM track (that's what you get when you unpack lossless audio) at this resolution when the Panasonic and PS3 get their DTS MA software decoders in a few months, then it'll be best to wait a while to upgrade.

Another thing to look for is whether or not Prologic IIx can be applied to 5.1 high resolution LPCM tracks via HDMI. Very helpful if you have 8 speakers.

Dan
 

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